Should Info Hubs & General Chat Be Removed from SL?

[Paulsian]

I've had over 1 year to review SL. They are investing in building new homes, however, how are they improving new user experience? What information are we given that is not abstract games when it comes to platform user experience? I was just at an info hub and I've seen disrespect in the purest evilest form for the last time. Why is SL suggesting the info hubs are somehow safe places to socialize for new users? & Why should I have to police their community areas for them. According to their games they are dependent on self policing. 

If were an prospective investor and saw what I have seen in the past year. I would run as fast as I could away. 

New users come in they do not understand the platform and they are instructed to visit info hubs for direction. Let me tell you the first info hub I visited when I first start this mess an avatar shot another in the head. It's hate & hustlers. 

Very bad Linden Labs. No amount of new houses ever will make up for the trauma I've experienced while using your platform.

I've reported so many issues and I'm sick of it. It's worse than facebook at least they are not trying to cover up the hate and evil with beauty. 

[Lindal Kidd]

You must be going to the wrong places, @Paulsian!

For one thing, LL doesn't recommend visiting Infohubs.  If you got information that suggested that, it was probably generated by Residents...and was also probably way out of date.  Some helpers are handing out very dated information with the best of intentions.

Second, no one is asking you to "police their community areas for them."  On the contrary, trying to act as the "SL Police" can get you a ton of scorn, and could even get you suspended or banned, depending on how you go about it.

Third, while you don't discuss it in your post, your title suggests that Nearby Chat be removed.  Why do you think this would be a good thing?  Do that, and you remove the most inclusive communication method in SL.

I've been doing a lot of hanging out at Social Island 1 lately, helping newcomers.  While I've gotten a few rather pushy propositions, I haven't seen any "hate & hustlers", or anyone shooting anyone (you can't, anyway.  Object creation's turned off...just as it is in the Infohubs.)

[Lyssa Greymoon]

No.

[Bree Giffen]

Info hubs and welcome areas are always filled with dumb people talking  in voice chat. Forget hate and hustling, it’s the vanity and insanity in hubs that newbies should be afraid of. 
 

I always look for the solution to the problem at hand. If newbies shouldn’t be dropped at infohubs then where should they be sent?

[Maitimo]

 

54 minutes ago, Paulsian said:

Why is SL suggesting the info hubs are somehow safe places to socialize for new users?

They aren't. They stopped doing so about ten years ago.  Info hubs were never a good place to send newbies to. They were just the places that newbies got dumped upon leaving the original Help Island. It's been many, many years since they were used for that purpose.

56 minutes ago, Paulsian said:

New users come in they do not understand the platform and they are instructed to visit info hubs for direction.

They are not. They are presented with a selection of portals to different types of places such as music venues, education, art, games or roleplay, and the chosen portal will teleport the user to a popular, privately-owned place within that category.

If you look at the Destination Guide you will see in the "Newbie Friendly" category where new users are being directed to; places like the Shelter, NCI, Helping Haven, Ajuda Brasil, Caledobn Oxbridge. All excellent places for new residents to seek help and instruction. You'll note that not one single infohub is included in the list.

[Claireschen Hesten]

1 hour ago, Paulsian said:

New users come in they do not understand the platform and they are instructed to visit info hubs for direction.

Are you sure? My last alt created a few months ago went through an orientation process to get them acquainted with moving round SL then to another area in the orientation process where they had to complete some quests where they were given some L$ credit that could only be spent in the shopping area in the region at the end there was a selection of places that could be teleported to next such as newbie friendly places, the portal park and an area to earn a few L$s. i don't remember seeing any info hubs listed. I don't know how helpful info hubs and welcome centres are now but when i joined more than 12 years ago the info presented at such places was well out of date and not very helpful

[Amanda Dallin]

As other have pointed out, Info hubs haven't been used as a place for newbies to learn in a very long time and you can't actually shoot anyone.  You might have seen two people working together to make it appear one shot the other.  There really is no purpose for the info hubs and maybe LL should consider using those areas for other purposes.  As it stands, they tend to make SL look bad to anyone who stumbles onto them.

[Lucia Nightfire]

3 hours ago, Paulsian said:

I was just at an info hub and I've seen disrespect in the purest evilest form for the last time

Mos Eisley Infohubs "You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

[ItHadToComeToThis]

4 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

You must be going to the wrong places, @Paulsian!

For one thing, LL doesn't recommend visiting Infohubs.  If you got information that suggested that, it was probably generated by Residents...and was also probably way out of date.  Some helpers are handing out very dated information with the best of intentions.

Second, no one is asking you to "police their community areas for them."  On the contrary, trying to act as the "SL Police" can get you a ton of scorn, and could even get you suspended or banned, depending on how you go about it.

Third, while you don't discuss it in your post, your title suggests that Nearby Chat be removed.  Why do you think this would be a good thing?  Do that, and you remove the most inclusive communication method in SL.

I've been doing a lot of hanging out at Social Island 1 lately, helping newcomers.  While I've gotten a few rather pushy propositions, I haven't seen any "hate & hustlers", or anyone shooting anyone (you can't, anyway.  Object creation's turned off...just as it is in the Infohubs.)

I wonder if groups such as the green lanterns still exist in SL or whether they are now just a distant menory

[Lindal Kidd]

15 minutes ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

I wonder if groups such as the green lanterns still exist in SL or whether they are now just a distant menory

The Green Lanterns do indeed exist. 

[Tari Landar]

5 hours ago, Paulsian said:

Why should I have to police their community areas for them. According to their games they are dependent on self policing. 

 

This term self policing doesn't mean what you think it means. No one is asking you to police others, you're choosing to. The self part of that phrase gives its definition away. What LL are saying is... "hakuna your own tatas"  (police your...SELF)

5 hours ago, Paulsian said:

If were an prospective investor and saw what I have seen in the past year. I would run as fast as I could away. 

Good thing you're not

5 hours ago, Paulsian said:

New users come in they do not understand the platform and they are instructed to visit info hubs for direction

No they're not, which is how I know you either have never actually been through the new user experience, or you're talking out your rear lol. 

5 hours ago, Paulsian said:

Let me tell you the first info hub I visited when I first start this mess an avatar shot another in the head. It's hate & hustlers. 

How does either hate or hustler fit that experience, which, I might add, isn't possible when rez rights aren't granted. What you probably saw was one avatar and another avatar having a jolly good time with this headshot thing a whole lot of us have that merely animates one's self, while another av clicks that person's head. I can assure you, no avatars are harmed in the making of this scene....I still find it funny, even over a decade later

5 hours ago, Paulsian said:

Very bad Linden Labs.

Very bad Paulsian, that's not the company's name

5 hours ago, Paulsian said:

No amount of new houses ever will make up for the trauma I've experienced while using your platform

Yet, you stayed for an entire year. If it was that traumatic, you wouldn't still be here, but nice try, lol.

5 hours ago, Paulsian said:

I've reported so many issues and I'm sick of it

So quit reporting, no one's holding a gun to your head and making you.

 

Sometimes threads need a bit of reality injected. 

It's all about choices Paulsian, and clearly, whatever ones you're making, are traumatizing your own self. I don't know why you keep doing things to harm yourself, but you should really stop doing that. There's a whole wide world of sl out there, and for whatever reason you're fixating ont he parts you don't like. I can't imagine there are NO parts you like (but if there aren't, again...why you here?). If you don't like infohubs, and I don't blame you for such feelings, don't go to them, super simple. If you don't like certain aspects of sl, don't participate in the, don't visit sims designed around them...find better things to do. It's not up to LL, or really anyone else, to entertain us here in sl. As nice as it might be to have an entire virtual environment catered to us, our individual whims, and no others, that's not remotely reasonable. If you want that, go to opensim and make your own. If, however, you want ideas on how better to experience sl, how to find the good parts, how to enjoy yourself.....there's a CRAP TON of advice you could be given. Although this isn't the way I would suggest to go about getting it, might I suggest finding things that interest you in rl, or would interest you if you could do them, and then find them in sl. In sl, I can parachute, go bungee jumping, fly and drive all kinds of vehicles, visit places I can't in rl, surf, ski, meet people from all over the world, build and create, it's endless, really. 

The world is literally at my fingertips and I.....ONLY I...control how that world goes. If I don't like something, I can leave. I have this amazing power, we all have it, and it's super easy to use. That doesn't excuse the poor behavior of others, in the least, it simply puts control in our own hands that we'd otherwise not have. I don't have to let any of the negative things others do, say, participate in, whatever, affect me, at all. If I choose to let it affect me, that's still a choice, right, wrong, or indifferent, it's a choice. 

[Syo Emerald]

11 hours ago, Paulsian said:

No amount of new houses ever will make up for the trauma I've experienced while using your platform.

1. Everything that happened is your own fault.

2. If you think overdramatizing your story by saying you are now traumatized is a good move, I'm here to tell you it isn't.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Syo Emerald
changed my mind

[Nick0678]

12 hours ago, Paulsian said:

Very bad Linden Labs. No amount of new houses ever will make up for the trauma I've experienced while using your platform.

I can feel your pain. My soul has been massively traumatized too, i joined an adults only 18+ supposedly realistic virtual world but the male avatars were all mutated humanoids with no genitals. At that moment i knew there's nothing realistic about it.. Shame on you labs.

(*11 years later i still can't pee)

[ChinRey]

7 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

I wonder if groups such as the green lanterns still exist in SL or whether they are now just a distant menory

There may still be a small clique of crazy old soldiers from Wodbury around but apart from that I think they've all grown up by now.

There are still plenty of individual griefers around though so unless you know how to handle them, it's a good idea to stay away from the infohubs and other known griefer hangouts.

[FairreLilette]

13 hours ago, Maitimo said:

If you look at the Destination Guide you will see in the "Newbie Friendly" category where new users are being directed to; places like the Shelter, NCI, Helping Haven, Ajuda Brasil, Caledobn Oxbridge. All excellent places for new residents to seek help and instruction. You'll note that not one single infohub is included in the list.

Yeah this, what Maitimo said.  I always suggest new users find the tab for the Destination Guide and then click on it and open the Destination Guide and look for the Newcomer Friendly category.

In all my years in and out of SL since almost it's beginning, I have never been to an info hub; I've only heard of them.  I've always made friends in the beginning who helped me. 

Use Google search to look up things.  You put the words Second Life in Google search first and then put in the question you need an answer for.

Cindy told me about the KNOWLEDGE BASE as well.

My 3rd time in SL here, I stayed my first month at London City.

However, as far as "new user" experience and the how to do that I think is lacking because if I didn't make friends at first, I would have been pretty lost.  

See the little tab to the left in the middle of the screen with the white in the middle - you click on that tab and it opens your DESTINATION GUIDE.  

Edited July 31, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Chaser Zaks]

15 hours ago, Paulsian said:

I was just at an info hub and I've seen disrespect in the purest evilest form for the last time.

Info hubs often attract those with big opinions, griefers, and trolls, due to the lack of moderation. This is "normal" for a info hub.

15 hours ago, Paulsian said:

Why is SL suggesting the info hubs are somehow safe places to socialize for new users?

Info hubs are not safe in that way. Info hubs are safe, as in, if you log in and the region you were previously in is no longer available, or you happen to get ejected from somewhere, safe hubs provide a place for people to still be able to log into, even if they are not dressed. While the general and moderate safe hubs encourage those to dress as soon as possible, adult safe hubs do not require this, and you will see all sorts of weird stuff.

15 hours ago, Paulsian said:

Why should I have to police their community areas for them. According to their games they are dependent on self policing.

Policing sounds like you are actively sitting there waiting on people to do something so you can report them. You are under no obligation to report people, yet alone police people.

While yes, Linden Lab relies a lot on people reporting abusive residents, they don't encourage people to go to the point where they actively seek out people who may be violating the rules, as that in it's self can be seen as harassment.

15 hours ago, Paulsian said:

New users come in they do not understand the platform and they are instructed to visit info hubs for direction. Let me tell you the first info hub I visited when I first start this mess an avatar shot another in the head. It's hate & hustlers.

New users are directed to visit Social Islands and other places listed in the destination guide.

15 hours ago, Paulsian said:

Very bad Linden Labs. No amount of new houses ever will make up for the trauma I've experienced while using your platform.

I'm not fully sure if this is a legit post at this point. Is this a troll post? (Also it is singular Lab, there is only one Linden Lab)

15 hours ago, Paulsian said:

I've reported so many issues and I'm sick of it. It's worse than facebook at least they are not trying to cover up the hate and evil with beauty. 

Just because you report something, doesn't mean it will be dealt with the way you want, or that you will be notified if it is dealt with.

When something is reported, Linden Lab takes their time to ensure they do not punish someone for something they didn't do. They also do not punish people for subjective reasons, such as "hate and evil". I could say that hating cats is "hateful and evil", but you probably wouldn't agree with that. Hate, just like free speech, is a subjective subject. It isn't something that is easy to agree upon. Just because Linden Lab doesn't ban someone, doesn't mean they agree with what they say. They are simply ensuring equal treatment of Residents.

Personally, I do not want to see Second Life become like Facebook. Facebook has taken to censoring people who have views that do not align with their own. Second Life allows people to be themselves, within reason. It also encourages people to be adults and use the block button when necessary.

Take for example, there is a lot of stuff I have seen others say that I disagree with and would personally see hateful, but is it truely hateful? They would say "No, it isn't hateful", and that is their opinion, which disagrees with my opinion that it is. So I would rather them not be censored, lest I risk my own opinions be censored.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Chaser Zaks

[Silent Mistwalker]

15 hours ago, Paulsian said:

I've had over 1 year to review SL. They are investing in building new homes, however, how are they improving new user experience? What information are we given that is not abstract games when it comes to platform user experience? I was just at an info hub and I've seen disrespect in the purest evilest form for the last time. Why is SL suggesting the info hubs are somehow safe places to socialize for new users? & Why should I have to police their community areas for them. According to their games they are dependent on self policing. 

If were an prospective investor and saw what I have seen in the past year. I would run as fast as I could away. 

New users come in they do not understand the platform and they are instructed to visit info hubs for direction. Let me tell you the first info hub I visited when I first start this mess an avatar shot another in the head. It's hate & hustlers. 

Very bad Linden Labs. No amount of new houses ever will make up for the trauma I've experienced while using your platform.

I've reported so many issues and I'm sick of it. It's worse than facebook at least they are not trying to cover up the hate and evil with beauty. 

Hey, you know, it took me 5 years to realize I needed to get away from my extremely abusive ex and only another 5 years to actually be able to get away from him.

If it has been such a traumatizing experience for you, why are you still in SL after a loooong 365 days?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[AdminGirl]

I kind of agree that the name Safe Hub is not entirely fitting.. at least not anymore. But I hope you are finding new places to go to instead of the places that have traumatized you!

I don't think LL has to do anything to "make up" for trauma that any of us may experience on the platform. At the end of the day, we're responsible for our own experiences and for what we choose to do here. There have been times I wished LL would step in a bit more in certain aspects but I don't think they'll be directing their resources to hand-holding anyone through situations that the user can take themselves out of.

If you've noticed certain places that are prone to griefing, keep searching for other places to go. There are so many cool destinations but you won't discover them if you're too caught up on being volunteer sheriff at the info hub 🙂

[Syo Emerald]

2 hours ago, AdminGirl said:

I kind of agree that the name Safe Hub is not entirely fitting.. at least not anymore

Its fitting. Look at Chasers reply. People just constantly misunderstand the name.

[Qie Niangao]

19 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

For one thing, LL doesn't recommend visiting Infohubs.  If you got information that suggested that, it was probably generated by Residents...and was also probably way out of date.  Some helpers are handing out very dated information with the best of intentions.

The OP is MIA, but it would sure be nice to know where they got that misinformation, in case others are still falling victim to it.

That said, though, I thought the Lab went to some effort to help new users connect with more promising and relevant early experiences. If those attempts worked as intended, newbies really shouldn't be vulnerable to suggestions to hang out at InfoHubs. I guess well-meaning helpers can't be prevented from giving bad advice to newbies, but one might hope that newbies would have already seen better options than what they'll find at an InfoHub -- assuming they know how to return to those better options.

[Pussycat Catnap]

19 hours ago, Paulsian said:

If were an prospective investor and saw what I have seen in the past year. I would run as fast as I could away.

Funny you should note that:

https://www.lindenlab.com/releases/linden_research_to_be_acquired

 

[Whirly Fizzle]

20 hours ago, Paulsian said:

I've reported so many issues and I'm sick of it. It's worse than facebook at least they are not trying to cover up the hate and evil with beauty. 

Personally I've very much enjoyed reading all your unusual JIRA issues  

[Lyssa Greymoon]

Linden Lab keeps turning voice off in safe hubs and info hubs making it really hard to find that kind of entertainment anymore.

[Lucia Nightfire]

It's 2020. Let's start calling them Sanctuary Hubs.

[animats]

2 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

It's 2020. Let's start calling them Sanctuary Hubs.

In the unlikely event of a restart or shutdown of the region you are in, your avatar will be teleported to an sanctuary hub in another region. Do not panic.