Should Info Hubs & General Chat Be Removed from SL?

[Bree Giffen]

If newbs are sent to learning areas instead of infohubs are these areas adequate enough to introduce them to SL? I think LL needs to collect feedback from new users and measure how well things are working. Maybe newbs should be sent to adult areas. I’ll bet we’d see one hundred percent retention. 

[Nika Talaj]

I am replying only to this portion of the OP:  Should Infohubs be removed from SL?

Probably, yes.  If the only purpose they now serve is to dump people there when the region they're en route to is unaccountably missing, I'm sure there's a better solution. 

For example, create a small number of regions called "Transit station <n>", which consists of a large number of featureless concourses at a variety of heights .   People whose login or teleport fails in a certain way are sent to a random spot on a concourse, which will cut down on the number of people who find themselves in a mob of strangers.  Transit stations might be limited to 60 avatars or so, should not have build, fly, or much of anything else in the way of permissions on.  When you arrive, a large notice is displayed on your screen,  with just a single "OK" button that closes the notice.

"Greetings.  Your login or teleport failed, probably because the region you were attempting to enter is not available.  The most common reason for that is because it is being restarted, so it may be available again soon.  Please feel free to choose any destination you know of & go to it at any time.  You are welcome to stay here for 20 minutes, at which time you will be teleported to your home." 

It should be impossible to teleport intentionally to a Transit Station.

[AdminGirl]

6 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

Its fitting. Look at Chasers reply. People just constantly misunderstand the name.

I saw his reply. My opinion that it's not entirely fitting is exactly the reason you state - that it's often misunderstood. The word "safe" in the name is easily confused with what the term more commonly used for, which is safe from harm.

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

I am replying only to this portion of the OP:  Should Infohubs be removed from SL?

Probably, yes.  If the only purpose they now serve is to dump people there when the region they're en route to is unaccountably missing, I'm sure there's a better solution.

I don't think that is the only, or even the main, de facto purpose the infohubs have today.

I see lots of comments about how bad the people who hang out at infohubs are but is the case, where else do you want them to hang out? Everybody have to be somewhere after all.

The fact is of course that although there are quite a few bad apples, most of the "infohub crowd" are nice and perfectly innocent people who use the infohubs to meet their friends or to "park" their avatar whilst doing stuff that don't require them to be at a particular place. Some of the hubs are homes for circles of friends who have been together for ages. It's not in anybody's itnerest to take that away from them.

Edited August 1, 2020 by ChinRey

[Gabriele Graves]

"Should Info Hubs & General Chat be Removed from SL?"

No.

How about we expect people to act like adults, use discretion and the tools they have to protect themselves instead?  Places to chat on the internet can be harsh and brutal.  Only by silencing everyone can we ensure that is stopped.  The cure is worse than the disease.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Gabriele Graves
Added quote and an extra response.

[Lindal Kidd]

What, you mean we all have to ADULT?  Like that'll happen!

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

19 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

What, you mean we all have to ADULT?  Like that'll happen!

Linda acting to that Kid part of her name.. :P~~

[Ardy Lay]

We just need the storage places for avatars to be sorted better.  😁

[Gabriele Graves]

Adulting is definitely difficult some days.  🤪

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Info hubs.. perhaps.. general chat.. no.

[lucagrabacr]

The Infohubs are fine as they are. You can always mute anyone you consider offensive. Investors don't run away from seeing people socialize normally

[Ceka Cianci]

Aren't a lot of info hubs on private sims?

Didn't they add a lot of those years back?

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong  or something though..

[Mollymews]

25 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Aren't a lot of info hubs on private sims?

not absolutely sure if is still possible but i think private estates can add telehubs to their regions, which show up on the World Map as Infohubs

the Knowledge Base suggests that is still possible to do: https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/managing-private-regions-r50/Section_..1

[Silent Mistwalker]

Quote

A telehub (teleport hub) allows an estate owner or manager to set where Residents teleport into their region. This is usually done to control the experience: for example, set a telehub at the help area of your shopping mall to ensure it's the first thing visitors see.

• Allow Direct Teleport in REGION/ESTATE - ESTATE must be disabled for a telehub to work estate-wide.
• A telehub is connected to an object that must remain inworld; otherwise, the telehub needs to be reconnected. There can only be one telehub per region.
• A telehub object is commonly a phantom, an invisible cube raised above the ground used solely for positioning.
• A spawn point, which can also be the telehub if there's a single spawn point, sets where incoming Residents arrive.
• Advanced usage: Multiple spawn points can be set up around the telehub, and move relative to the telehub object being moved. This is fairly uncommon.
• A telehub has no effect on its estate's owner or manager, so if you want to test them, ask a friend or use an alt.
• A telehub is shown with a yellow beacon when the TELEHUB window is open. A spawn point is shown in orange.
• See Estate and Private Region Telehubs and Direct Teleport.

Connect Telehub

Right-click an object that's located where you want to set the telehub and select Edit. Click Connect Telehub.

Disconnect

Removes a selected object from being a telehub.

Spawn Points

Each coordinate shown is relative to the main telehub object. If the spawn point is the same as the telehub, it appears as "0.0, 0.0, 0.0".

Add Spawn

Select the telehub object (or another object near the telehub) where you want incoming visitors to appear. Click Add Spawn. The coordinates are added to the list.

Remove Spawn

Removes a selected entry in the Spawn Points list.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewerhelp:Telehub

A telehub can be set in any single region, full or homestead. It does not have to be several connected regions. Anyone who owns a region, full or homestead, can choose between a Landing Point OR a Telehub.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Silent Mistwalker

[Arielle Popstar]

Quote

Should Info Hubs & General Chat Be Removed from SL?

I don't think so. These days those hubs are about the only place where people still chat in local as a lot of other places people congregate, it is all IM. If LL was to get rid of anything it should be private messaging or make it a premium perk so only premium members can do it. Might see a few more new people stay once they realize that S/L is an actual social world.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

On 7/31/2020 at 1:40 AM, Paulsian said:

I've had over 1 year to review SL. [...] It's hate & hustlers. [...] the trauma I've experienced [...] I'm sick of it. It's worse than facebook

I experienced the same when I went to visit New York. I got out of the plane and had a good look around. My friends told me there would be a whole lot of tall buildings and a lot of stores and musea and famous landmarks like the statue of Liberty. But all I saw was a bunch of rather small restaurants and duty-free shops with ridiculously tiny statues of Liberty. It was pretty clear to me that that whole New York thing is a con. I got on the first plane back home. It was the worst vacation in my entire life.

[Paulsian]

Thank you all for your input. I was emotional when I wrote this post due to personal issues that paired with seeing in conversation what I saw resulted in this mess. 

I have invested.

I would compare the G rated info hub conversations to the san francisco tenderloin district at times. It's not like normal conversations happen at info hubs. It's mostly fighting, hate, & evil. I don't believe the social islands are info hubs (edit: they are)  and are very fun to visit, the diversity is great. The general rules are on display A+++.

When I started I was sent to Orientation Island (near help islands). I think from one of those I was sent to an info hub. 

When you go to the world menu & select 'set home to here' a pop up pops up: You can only set your home location to your land or an info hub. 

Info hubs are places suggested by LL to be home location option. Free home locations. I would think the info hub home locations would be safe places to call homes and have the rules of this platform on display, with some sort of banned word directory for G rated areas to auto block in general chat. If users are so passionate about the negative parts I wonder why general chat would be needed in those places?.

Rezzing inworld at a G Rated info hub home and seeing racy conversations is not the friendly safe place I would feel comfortable having my loved ones exposed to.

As far as LL depending on users to report terms of service violations via the report abuse option from help menu, there's no LL enforcement presence anywhere besides the general rules on social islands. And No i'm not trying to act like a cop wannabe when i'm online; I feel like concerns reported are not taken seriously sometimes.

Maybe info hubs with specific interests. Interest Hubs. The hate and evil can go to the hate and evil interest hub. The physical abusers can go to the physical abuser hub. The I think i'm being visited by aliens can go to the  

Edit: I think the word home is what bothers me. Associating the word home with info hub is probably not the best way I would describe the info hubs to be like. 

Edit: As far as the portals on social islands to be welcoming places to visit: I'm unsure the logic of where users are teleported to based on those interest portals. One time I took the music portal and I was sent to a non official biker island and was not welcome because I was not female. I left and went back to the music portal and it kept sending me to a place I was not welcome and I was only welcomed to leave with aggression. At that time I was a new user. Scary. 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Paulsian
corrections

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Paulsian said:

 

Maybe info hubs with specific interests. Interest Hubs. The hate and evil can go to the hate and evil interest hub. The physical abusers can go to the physical abuser hub. The I think i'm being visited by aliens can go to the  

 

 

In a perfect world.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 7/30/2020 at 7:40 PM, Paulsian said:

I've had over 1 year to review SL. They are investing in building new homes, however, how are they improving new user experience? What information are we given that is not abstract games when it comes to platform user experience? I was just at an info hub and I've seen disrespect in the purest evilest form for the last time. Why is SL suggesting the info hubs are somehow safe places to socialize for new users? & Why should I have to police their community areas for them. According to their games they are dependent on self policing. 

If were an prospective investor and saw what I have seen in the past year. I would run as fast as I could away. 

New users come in they do not understand the platform and they are instructed to visit info hubs for direction. Let me tell you the first info hub I visited when I first start this mess an avatar shot another in the head. It's hate & hustlers. 

Very bad Linden Labs. No amount of new houses ever will make up for the trauma I've experienced while using your platform.

I've reported so many issues and I'm sick of it. It's worse than facebook at least they are not trying to cover up the hate and evil with beauty. 

First, I think you have to make the distinction among Welcome Areas, Info Hubs, and Resident Managed Infohubs.

There are certain areas that are notorious for exactly the behavior you are describing. Years ago, a friend of ours in the Sims Online, a top creator now in SL, went for an exploratory trip to SL, and was rebuffed by crude behavior in the welcome area. This scared a whole group of us off for a long time, especially as others reinforced the tale with their own experience. Eventually TSO closed and we moved here, some earlier, some later.

I would then go an examine what was going on in the hubs. There is usually a small and determined group of "wall-sitters" or hang-abouts, for whom the addition of Voice in 2007 or whenever was sure to make more hell for normal people. It's impossible to dislodge those people merely by ARs, even with the worst behavior violating every TOS rule, obscenity, harassment, commercial activity, shooting, violence, etc. The Lindens tried putting their own staff there and that improved things. I remember the days when Jack Linden, who was eventually VP of Community I believe, a highly skilled professional, was on duty in Violet. The presence of Lindens helped but they are a scarce resource.

Then the Lindens put their helpers on known as SL Mentors and that was a racket, as they would scoop up newbies and take them to their stores and clubs -- it was a way to grab newbies for commerce circles. This wasn't even the kind of abuse that got to the Lindens, but other kinds did, and they scrapped the SL Mentors. Then they tried to encourage the resident managed welcome areas. There are also resident-managed areas which are on Linden land (the old telehubs and old infohubs converted to different kind of learning centers). These are all better, but uneven, and the Lindens still left places like Violet or Horizons open, where all kinds of horrors go on.

I think there are some simple things to do here.

o Turn off voice -- they advertise these as "chat areas" but there are plenty of other chat areas in SL that are run by residents much better

o Have Lindens circuit-ride them at least

o Remove walls or other areas that encouraging sitting and griefing

o Provide teleport boards that enable people to truly use these as hubs where they stay for a short time, then move to something else like a Linden game

o Allow resident advertising -- this used to be allowed and was an effective way to answer the problem of "what things to do". They can be regulated and rotate.

These reforms and more might make these places bearable.

In the mean time, you could be like any of us and stop going to these areas as they will never provide any good experience, and go to resident run events and make friends there.

 

[Paulsian]

On 7/31/2020 at 9:48 AM, Chaser Zaks said:

I'm not fully sure if this is a legit post at this point. Is this a troll post? (Also it is singular Lab, there is only one Linden Lab)

Apologizes for the typo. Linden Lab. Got it. This sounds like a troll reply..

Edited August 26, 2020 by Paulsian

[Paulsian]

On 7/31/2020 at 3:18 PM, Whirly Fizzle said:

Personally I've very much enjoyed reading all your unusual JIRA issues  

 I was slightly drunk when I created this post. 100% sober with JIRA issues. I forgot all the good this platform does and I malfunctioned. My next forum post was going to be should Linden Lab remove the public forums or limited forum replies to 100 character max or have the ability to customize reply length. I'll pass on that one. Cheers. 

[Paulsian]

Maybe a mandatory Rules Hud for official protected areas that can detect repeated pushing & banned words (based on ratings) with warnings, and repeat violators auto reported? I was more so looking for solutions and less being treated like a non resident step child, none-the-less, it's good to know that I'm not the only user who sees a problem with info hubs and not the only user with issues..

[Lindal Kidd]

Instead of thinking up ways in which LL could control the behavior of others that you find annoying, why don't you take matters into your own hands?  Instead of arguing uselessly here, you can easily:

• Not go to wretched hives of scum and villainy (i.e., Infohubs)
• Since you ARE forced to go there occasionally, such as when you try to log in and your login region is offline, keep the nuclear option handy (CTRL+Q).

[Lindal Kidd]

On 7/31/2020 at 6:53 PM, Bree Giffen said:

If newbs are sent to learning areas instead of infohubs are these areas adequate enough to introduce them to SL? I think LL needs to collect feedback from new users and measure how well things are working. Maybe newbs should be sent to adult areas. I’ll bet we’d see one hundred percent retention. 

Noobs ARE sent to learning areas...Learning Island and Social Island.  And there is no need to force-teleport them to Adult areas.  The single most popular question I am asked by noobs is "how can I change my appearance?"  Running a close second to it is, "Can I have sex here/How do I get to the Adult areas?"

[Silent Mistwalker]

If I were a noob and got sent to an adult area pretty much right off the bat, I'd never log in again. If I were a noob and my reason(s) for joining SL didn't have anything to do with sex. I mean, I'm not the only one.

Am I? 🤭