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Spying on others with radar function


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Why does LL even allow this? It completely defeats the purpose of having some privacy in a skybox if anyone 3000m away from you, at ground level, can simply click radar -> double click your name and they instantly get 360-degree access to your entire home, including yourself. I, like 99.99% of residents in SL, am not the sole resident of a sim. Many times I've caught other residents perving at me when I'm changing clothes, demoing stuff or even decorating my home (I know this because I have look-target enabled). I don't have a partner so I don't do any naughty stuff at home, but I doesn't anyone else feel kind of bothered that there's never any privacy even if you live in a skybox while making out with your partner, in your own home? A lot of people also hide their look-target so that's even more annoying.

Edited by MelodicRain
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6 minutes ago, MelodicRain said:

(I know this because I have look-target enabled).

so you want to know where others are looking, but as soon it's you you freak out?

enable your privacy setting for your home. ( won't prevent people seeing you on the minimap, or radars)

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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It allows it because there’s less nefarious purposes for radar-based zooming, such as locating others at ample ground-level areas. Skyboxes don’t guarantee privacy unless you own the parcel and it allows you to restrict both outside rendering of avatars, and access to the actual parcel.

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3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

so you want to know where others are looking, but as soon it's you you freak out?

enable your privacy setting for your home. ( won't prevent people seeing you on the minimap, or radars)

Freak out? You need better English comprehension skills. Either that or you just lack basic understanding of privacy. Or you could just be a voyeur and expects everyone to enjoy that, who knows.

1 minute ago, Ren Toxx said:

It allows it because there’s less nefarious purposes for radar-based zooming, such as locating others at ample ground-level areas. Skyboxes don’t guarantee privacy unless you own the parcel and it allows you to restrict both outside rendering of avatars, and access to the actual parcel.

Thanks for an actual non-snarky answer. I'm still not sure why people need to locate others at an instant, given LL's countless other measures on privacy, but w/e. I'll talk to the landlord on enabling parcel privacy.

Edited by MelodicRain
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I didn't know it was cynical Monday. Asking a simple question and all I'm getting are snarky responses.

No privacy in SL? Hmm so what's why we have these trivial and non-trivial privacy QoL enhancements right?

  • Ability to hide groups from others
  • Ability to hide online status from others
  • Ability to remove friends discreetly
  • Ability to hide yourself completely from search
  • Probably a whole section in the ToS regarding privacy in IMs and whatnot
  • As was pointed out above by another, ability to set parcel privacy which actually answers my question
  • Probably bunch of others that I can't think of atm

So yes I do think there is some privacy in SL, at least more privacy than other online sims.

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Estate Manager / Land Fuzz here:

Provided you own the land, you can always enable privacy settings:

image.png.e824f5d9b59bffb25d32209ac500d7a9.png

If you do not own the land, there are various reasons as to why camming is allowed:

  1. Land moderation, I use it for this a lot. It makes it easier to deal with griefers when you have basically 3 sandboxes in a entire region(multiple platforms).
  2. Building, it would be tedious if you had to move your avatar around and fly around to reposition stuff.
  3. Customization, I can't imagine how I would edit my avatar without the camera tools.

And the list goes on.

Additionally, the "Enable viewer look at targets" is a developer feature intended for developers to test how avatars respond to specific look at areas, and is not intended as a resident feature. While some viewers have unfortunately made it a feature, I recommend against using it, especially if it bothers you that people are looking at you.

A majority of times when people are camming around, they are looking for someone to talk to or find out where people are socializing. When testing a feature to limit the range look at targets are transmitted, I saw quite a few look at targets land on me, then disappear. People are curious, it is a fact of life.

Personally, I don't like to have look at targets enabled, they are ugly and distracting.

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Oh, a good laugh.

Freaking out when there are crosshairs but make crosshairs visible. 👍
Do you know that viewers can supress this crosshais? That means there are ppl watching your avatar and you have no way to know.
Oh and always wear underwear or alpha under your clothes. You'll find out what I mean.
Btw. it's not you that changes clothes - you put new clothes on your pixel toon.
If switching off visibility doesn't work for you then you are renting the wrong place.
Btw. the crosshairs can be placed on your avatar even if it's invisible - in case someone likes to troll you.

But whatever you do - there is no privacy in SL. 😎

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  1. Hide Groups only hides their display on your profile, it does not hide your membership in them
  2. Your Online Status is always shown within the Member Lists of your Groups and to all scripts that ping that status - hiding of it only works for the most casual of users and is a placebo
  3. There are very few Online Services which will tell you that a friend has removed you - there was no point in even mentioning it
  4. Hiding from Search is little more than a bone that was thrown to the Paranoia Brigade - there are other methods to find a given user
  5. The ToS/CS only applies to the varied services Linden Lab owns - anyone can share/disclose an IM or Chat Log outside of their services
  6. The Parcel Privacy option mentioned as the "answer" to your "question" only works on those outside the Parcel
    1. Unless Linden Lab has made a change I am unaware of, this is a Placebo feature - unless explicitly banned (meaning by name) a User can simply hover above the Parcel to view those inside
  7. There are very few "privacy" features that are not Placebos or easily (and 'legally' (meaning within the ToS/CS)) circumvented - you want total Privacy you're going to have to rent/own a whole Region and set it up accordingly

Those are simply what I could think of responses to, at this time.

Though in the interest of not needing to come back later: Most other examples one could come up with would still fall under the general outline of the above points.

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11 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Unless Linden Lab has made a change I am unaware of, this is a Placebo feature - unless explicitly banned (meaning by name) a User can simply hover above the Parcel to view those inside

A parcel is divided into two sections -- "ground level" and above. I think the split is about 80 meters above ground level. It has been like this for as long as I can remember.

If you have parcel privacy enabled and your skybox is at 3000 meters, anybody around 150 meters and above can see you if they're on the same parcel.

Conversely, if your home is on the ground level, anybody above a certain height won't be able to see you even on the same parcel.

I think the "ban lines" cover this area, so enabling them will prevent anybody from entering the ground-level privacy area and seeing you even if they are on the same parcel.

Lastly... The viewer is open-source, anyone can change the code. Even if LL forced the camera limits (which I think are enabled by default in the LL viewer), anybody could make a third-party viewer that disabled that feature. You can't make a viewer that bypasses parcel privacy because it's the LL server that simply doesn't share the avatar data of privacy-enabled parcels unless they are in the same area. (They do share position, which is why radars still work.)

They could do the same for all objects on the parcel, but I don't think they want that considering what it would do to mainland.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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46 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

A parcel is divided into two sections -- "ground level" and above. I think the split is about 80 meters above ground level. It has been like this for as long as I can remember.

If you have parcel privacy enabled and your skybox is at 3000 meters, anybody around 150 meters and above can see you if they're on the same parcel.

Conversely, if your home is on the ground level, anybody above a certain height won't be able to see you even on the same parcel.

I think the "ban lines" cover this area, so enabling them will prevent anybody from entering the ground-level privacy area and seeing you even if they are on the same parcel.

Lastly... The viewer is open-source, anyone can change the code. Even if LL forced the camera limits (which I think are enabled by default in the LL viewer), anybody could make a third-party viewer that disabled that feature. You can't make a viewer that bypasses parcel privacy because it's the LL server that simply doesn't share the avatar data of privacy-enabled parcels unless they are in the same area. (They do share position, which is why radars still work.)

They could do the same for all objects on the parcel, but I don't think they want that considering what it would do to mainland.

The way I understand it, if you have at least one name on the parcel's ban list, then the invisibility should work all the way up to skybox level.  

 

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FWIW, the parcel privacy ceiling is 50m above ground. IIRC, it was added in server version 12.09.04.264357

I'm still waiting for public access to this parcel privacy behavior where you are also do not show on the radar/minimap: https://gyazo.com/043ec6a918fc32940f24bf31d0408ee8

No, I am not crossing regions in that vid.

Edited by Lucia Nightfire
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It looks like that old bug got fixed.  I logged in to my skybox, which is at 1800 m height, and verified that I had the parcel set for privacy.   I do not have anyone on the land 'allow' or 'ban' lists.

I logged the alt in with both the Firestorm viewer & the SL viewer and placed her at skybox height just outside my parcel.  She could not see me when she cammed into the skybox - with either viewer.

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3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It looks like that old bug got fixed.  I logged in to my skybox, which is at 1800 m height, and verified that I had the parcel set for privacy.   I do not have anyone on the land 'allow' or 'ban' lists.

I logged the alt in with both the Firestorm viewer & the SL viewer and placed her at skybox height just outside my parcel.  She could not see me when she cammed into the skybox - with either viewer.

That wasn't the old bug.  Parcel privacy has always worked when the "spying" avatar is on a different parcel.
The bug affects 2 avatars on the same parcel - when one avatar is >50m above the ground on the parcel, they cannot see avatars who are <50m above the ground in the same parcel, but only if the parcel ban list is not empty.

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almost all privacy settings but the parcel one are just placebos.. 

OP.. do you realize that a person can derender your clothing to see you naked if they want and you would never know about it.. 

so either use an alpha for the bits you dont want seen or accept that pervs will be pervs and there is little that can be done about it. except stay on your own region/homestead and ban everyone unwanted from it. or if you have parcel rights turn on the setting mentioned above and turn on ban lines.

 

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7 hours ago, MelodicRain said:

A lot of people also hide their look-target so that's even more annoying.

We could deploy alts with scripted cams to leer at random avatar targets. Even though there's nobody watching, all those look-targets will make it seem as if one is being noticed.

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4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

We could deploy alts with scripted cams to leer at random avatar targets. Even though there's nobody watching, all those look-targets will make it seem as if one is being noticed.

even better we could deploy our own alts to leer at us. Then we will look like we are the most popular leered at person, much to the dismay of the second-most leered at popular person

😸

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