NUX Avatar

[Cackle Amore]

7 hours ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

I don't have any photos, but the I did inspect the model and the feet are fully modelled with individual toes. Hands, well, to be expected as the hands were in a default "rest" pose, as Jester didn't seem to be using an AO at all.

Can you still view these models sitting out in the open somewhere or was it only just during this preview?
Also do you recall how the polygon count looked, Was it modest or absurdly highpoly?

[Jenna Huntsman]

11 minutes ago, Cackle Amore said:

Can you still view these models sitting out in the open somewhere or was it only just during this preview?
Also do you recall how the polygon count looked, Was it modest or absurdly highpoly?

I don't have exact (or accurate) numbers for polycount, but from what I was able to gather, polycount is in the sub-100,000 range.

No idea if it's on display anywhere or not.

[Stephanie Misfit]

Oh, this is very exciting. Now all those male avatars who refuse to use anything but system avs because "I'm not investing money in Second Life despite being here 12 years" will have no excuse but to improve their appearance. But seriously, this is awesome to see and I hope creators get behind it. And for those clothing creators just entering the market, this will be a great start, no waiting to be established enough to get dev kits for mesh bodies. I am assuming the dev kit will be freely available.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Wow, OK. This is very good!

I think this could be a real step forward for retention and the new user experience.

And it might have broader ramifications too if they are nice enough, and get anything like decent support. While I get that these are primarily for new users, they might level the playing field somewhat for people who can't drop substantial amounts of RL cash on their looks. It might go some way to reducing the stigma of being "new," or of being cash-strapped, on a fixed income, etc. It might, in other words, make SL a teeny bit more egalitarian. 

[Mollymews]

i think this is a good thing.  Mostly for the simplified learning aspect of how to dress my avatar. A learning which can then be applied to more advanced avatar models as new residents grow their inworld experience

 

 

 

 

[Maryanne Solo]

I think LL should go all out on creating mesh avies & clothing.
We had a micro meta market "sniff" with the recent fashion show/runway escapades.
Free + mid price + expensive NFT mesh overload.
Surely it's obvious that mesh clothing is the only thing that can be NFT'd and
a trustworthy/scam-less purchase.  
LL lead the way with SL, now is the time to set the pace again. 🤔

 

[Mollymews]

22 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I await the BLENDER dev kits and documentation.

i vote for Blender kits, docs and tutorials as well

[Teagan Tobias]

On 6/24/2022 at 6:14 PM, Blaise Glendevon said:

As a starter, to learn how mesh works before you buy one of the many creator-supported bodies and heads, it might work. I'd be surprised if creators jump on the bandwagon of making clothes for an avatar used by people too cheap to buy a real mesh body or too new to know where the discerning shopper heads and what they create for. And as admirers of the Tonic bodies or the Signature Alice might tell you, you can have the finest body on the market - but if there are no clothes/skins, you're just going to wear Maitreya/Legacy/Belleza, etc. 

{I Bolded}

 

Its nice to see someone else list Tonic as the finest body on the market. And no I don’t wear or even have any of those other bodies, and I can find more clothing than I can afford to buy for my Tonic Fine body, so I will not be changing any time soon (if ever).

But I do think playing with a free mesh body and head that is modify could give me hours of fun in Second Life. After all, that’s what I’m here for.

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

I need a better look at both bodies (male and female) to look over the proportions LL has set these too as a base. Maybe, just maybe, we can finally get something close to realistic as a starting point in terms of torso and leg length, hip and crotch position, head size, etc.

[Claireschen Hesten]

On 6/25/2022 at 12:14 AM, Blaise Glendevon said:

I'd be surprised if creators jump on the bandwagon of making clothes for an avatar used by people too cheap to buy a real mesh body or too new to know where the discerning shopper heads and what they create for

In a saturated body/add-on market where even the market leader body is getting squeezed out in favour of whatever happens to be the shiny new flavour of the month. I don't see established creators adding it to their rigging line-up. I do see newer creators using it as a stepping stone towards getting a dev kit for existing bodies, so it will get some love that way

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

This is great, and from what I can see in the photo, a heck of an improvement over the starter avatars that were offered when I started (hello, Girl Next Door). Maybe my alts will finally get to look decent, since I won't buy them stuff.  

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 hours ago, Stephanie Lovely said:

Oh, this is very exciting. Now all those male avatars who refuse to use anything but system avs because "I'm not investing money in Second Life despite being here 12 years" will have no excuse but to improve their appearance. But seriously, this is awesome to see and I hope creators get behind it. And for those clothing creators just entering the market, this will be a great start, no waiting to be established enough to get dev kits for mesh bodies. I am assuming the dev kit will be freely available.

I mean they should not feel forced to change to mesh. I mean investing also means time and money.  I mean I used to be like that. But this was back when Mesh was in its very early stages, and I was very unsure of changing. As I already had an established look, I loved my look. Had mesh not improved. I would not have invested the time and money into upgrading. But that being said, people don't want to change their system avatars. For many of reasons besides investing time and money. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Sammy Huntsman

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

In a saturated body/add-on market where even the market leader body is getting squeezed out in favour of whatever happens to be the shiny new flavour of the month. I don't see established creators adding it to their rigging line-up. I do see newer creators using it as a stepping stone towards getting a dev kit for existing bodies, so it will get some love that way

It would depend on its ease to create content for it, how realistic/customisable it is (it needs to be as realistic/customisable as possible for all races/beings) and whether it actually is optimised better than what is available. If it ticks all three of those then it will be something that content creators would need to create for as it could potentially have a greater uptake than other bodies.

For example, if it works with alpha layers like the default body can currently (unlike mesh bodies which need alpha cuts through a hud), then it would already be far more optimised than other mesh bodies out there right from the start. This is due to current bodies needing multiple mesh segments to allow for alpha cutting. BoM doesn't allow for system body alpha layers to be used, whereas a default updated system body would allow for it saving render cost. That is if the old system body is replaced with new mesh and not just a mesh body over the old system body (aka user created mesh body method).

If they update the default avatar layer system (old BoM) so that it can have more slots like finger nails and allow for smaller alpha cut sections similar to a user created mesh body alpha segments etc. Then, alpha layers could be used basically the same as a mesh body hud albeit be a simple clothing creator created alpha layer supplied with the clothes, without the need for the hud and can be precise unlike current mesh bodies.

You also have to remember that it is free from the start. So any new user would potentially not see a need to update to a user created body. With existing users already having numerous user created mesh bodies, they are already at market saturation with existing users. If new sign-ups are what LL say they are, then it will be these new users that could potentially flip the market.

[Blaise Glendevon]

3 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

So any new user would potentially not see a need to update to a user created body.

Tell me the Maitreya Petite lady and the Kupra Kups queen would be interested in the same mesh body with a straight face. 

[Mollymews]

6 hours ago, Teagan Tobias said:

But I do think playing with a free mesh body and head that is modify could give me hours of fun in Second Life. After all, that’s what I’m here for.

 

this I think for non-new residents is an attraction with the NUX

is also consistent with what Oberwolf and Philip Linden were talking about in their SL19B chat. That Second Life is still fundamentally a creative activity. And I think a full permissions mesh starter avatar lends itself to continuing this creative tradition

[Drayke Newall]

51 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Tell me the Maitreya Petite lady and the Kupra Kups queen would be interested in the same mesh body with a straight face. 

No idea, never bought a female body so wouldn't know. All I know is that from new user reviews on why they left Second Life the fact that to get a good body cost them $30USD odd was enough to make them stop playing as they didnt want to make an investment of such a large amount early but felt they needed to due to having and being told they have a 'noob' look.

[Da5id Weatherwax]

7 hours ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

I do see newer creators using it as a stepping stone towards getting a dev kit for existing bodies

Now you're touching on one of the few things about SL likely to provoke me into a moderate amount of fury. This sneering "show us your clothing store before we give you a devkit so we can make sure you're good enough to deserve it" with the (not always) unspoken subtext of "If you're not a serious creator the only reason you'd want a devkit is to rip us off"

Well, Mr or Ms snooty-body-maker, you can go get bent. I'm as serious about the stuff I make as the biggest clothing makers out there, I just don't make it to sell, I make it for me. No, I'm not the best rigger out there an I'll put up my paw and say I truly suck at rigging fitmesh but I get there in the end... Just if I can't make stuff for me to put with it, my own unique bits and pieces that will never be worn by any other av on the grid, I wont be buying your body or head or whatever in the first place. No matter how pretty and skilfully designed it may be. And I'm not unique in that either.

A LL-provided well-designed mesh av complete with full devkit would not be a "stepping stone" for users like me if it's actually a good one. It would become my own massive middle finger at the folks who won't let me into their walled gardens.

[Conifer Dada]

It would be useful if the NUX avatar bodies and heads correspond closely to whatever 'system' shape you're wearing when you put them on. For those of us who still use classic system avatars it would be great if you could just swap to NUX without having to do a lot of adjusting. Some of the deficiencies of the current system avatars (e.g. the shoulders) don't seem to be that dependent on slider settings unless you go to extremes.

I know that current mesh bodies can differ a lot from the underlying system shape but I guess that many people who use mesh bodies and want to try NUX have kept copies of their favourite old system shape somewhere in their inventory.

As I said before, the developer kits should be available to all and free, or at least cheap, and able to be purchased with L$. If not free to all, then perhaps included in the Premium package.

As the NUX bodies are going to be BOM, it would be great if there could be a way of texturing each arm or foot separately. I know the standard skin template doesn't allow for this but if there could be optional skin or tattoo layers that apply the texture to just one side somehow, that would be a workaround.

A few extra sliders for shape editing would be good too. For example being able to adjust knee height on legs, whether toes point in or out, whether neck is upright or craned forwards and the at-rest hanging angle of arms. The latter would mean "people of size" could keep their hands from disappearing into their hips!

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Conifer Dada

[Marianne Little]

It is already possible to have 2 arms on a two arm template for BoM on mesh avatars, but the skin has to be made for it. And since I do not own the skin UUID, I can forget about it. Any attempt to upload a single flower or text to place on one arm will be mirrored, no matter what I do with the new layers.

I wish skin creators would do this. But I am not a creator, it is information about it in the creator parts of the forum. I stopped doing research when I found out that the one arm template skin would effectively stop me.

It must be a market for this. But I think all customers have accepted the one arm situation and don't ask for / pay for an updated skin.

I did not have patience or desire to make an applier and use an onion tattoo layer on the Maitreya body.

1 hour ago, Conifer Dada said:

It would be useful if the NUX avatar bodies and heads correspond closely to whatever 'system' shape you're wearing when you put them on. For those of us who still use classic system avatars it would be great if you could just swap to NUX without having to do a lot of adjusting. Some of the deficiencies of the current system avatars (e.g. the shoulders) don't seem to be that dependent on slider settings unless you go to extremes.

I know that current mesh bodies can differ a lot from the underlying system shape but I guess that many people who use mesh bodies and want to try NUX have kept copies of their favourite old system shape somewhere in their inventory.

As I said before, the developer kits should be available to all and free, or at least cheap, and able to be purchased with L$. If not free to all, then perhaps included in the Premium package.

As the NUX bodies are going to be BOM, it would be great if there could be a way of texturing each arm or foot separately. I know the standard skin template doesn't allow for this but if there could be optional skin or tattoo layers that apply the texture to just one side somehow, that would be a workaround.

A few extra sliders for shape editing would be good too. For example being able to adjust knee height on legs, whether toes point in or out, whether neck is upright or craned forwards and the at-rest hanging angle of arms. The latter would mean "people of size" could keep their hands from disappearing into their hips!

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Marianne Little

[Blush Bravin]

9 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

For example, if it works with alpha layers like the default body can currently (unlike mesh bodies which need alpha cuts through a hud), then it would already be far more optimised than other mesh bodies out there right from the start. This is due to current bodies needing multiple mesh segments to allow for alpha cutting. BoM doesn't allow for system body alpha layers to be used, whereas a default updated system body would allow for it saving render cost. That is if the old system body is replaced with new mesh and not just a mesh body over the old system body (aka user created mesh body method).

If they update the default avatar layer system (old BoM) so that it can have more slots like finger nails and allow for smaller alpha cut sections similar to a user created mesh body alpha segments etc. Then, alpha layers could be used basically the same as a mesh body hud albeit be a simple clothing creator created alpha layer supplied with the clothes, without the need for the hud and can be precise unlike current mesh bodies.

I'm not understanding why you are saying this. I use system alphas with my Maitreya body all the time. I hardly ever use alpha cuts. And the Slink body doesn't have any alpha cuts at all and uses system alphas exclusively.  Patch said the NUX body is BoM compatible so that would indicate that system alphas will work just fine with this new body.

[Nalates Urriah]

12 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I need a better look at both bodies (male and female) to look over the proportions LL has set these too as a base. Maybe, just maybe, we can finally get something close to realistic as a starting point in terms of torso and leg length, hip and crotch position, head size, etc.

I'll have to see the bodies to see how the Lab's people have handled proportions. Their record is not that good. So I am not expecting perfection.

Most of us that are sensitive to body proportions use some type of template to adjust our shape. Built body and head templates fro my use and later put them in the MP. I based them on artist's templates for the human form. I like my head and body shapes better since then.

Still some people have a better natural eye for shape than I do with a guide. I suspect the Lab's people are in a similar class.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Nalates Urriah

[Love Zhaoying]

Will NUX Avatars be able to hug each other without their limbs passing through each other's bodies? 

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

I'm not understanding why you are saying this. I use system alphas with my Maitreya body all the time. I hardly ever use alpha cuts. And the Slink body doesn't have any alpha cuts at all and uses system alphas exclusively.  Patch said the NUX body is BoM compatible so that would indicate that system alphas will work just fine with this new body.

It depends on the body. Some mesh bodies haven't had them edited to allow for them and they set the body no mod. Even if they provide an additional modify body for it then a user would need to know how to set it up so that it allows for alpha layers to work.

Take for example the Jake Body. It is no mod from unpack and has not had it set up for alpha layers to work for it. A mod version of the body is provided but a user would need to know that they have to set each body skin segment as alpha mask rather than alpha blending to make it so that alpha layers work.

If the body is no mod and doesn't provide a modifiable version then good luck. Sometimes a script when changing to BoM does it automatically however sometimes it doesn't and sometimes it just bugs out.

Additionally, because mesh bodies have segmented mesh it means that it makes the mesh very complex and unoptimised not to mention needing scripts within the body to handle appliers, hud as well as converting it at the push of a button on the hud to BoM and back again (once again depending on the body). Not having scripts in the body would mean less lag for everyone.

You also didn't understand what I meant about the new NUX body. BoM as we know it now applies to a mesh body that is attached to the default avatar and when this is done, the default avatar is hidden underneath. When I said old BoM i meant system layers and am hoping that the new NUX body wont be like current bodies where it goes over the default body and hides it but an entire replacement of the default mesh aka not BoM as we know it now but solely system layers as it was pre mesh bodies.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Coffee Pancake]

44 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Will NUX Avatars be able to hug each other without their limbs passing through each other's bodies? 

No.

This requires a much requested overhaul to how animations in SL work.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

No.

This requires a much requested overhaul to how animations in SL work.

It never hurts to ask!