Drayke Newall
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Nobody goes to the Community Exhibition in WelcomeHub.
Drayke Newall replied to animats's topic in General Discussion Forum
Yes I did and do click both the World menu and the toolbar button and I will say it again. That destination pop-up is NOT the full destination guide. It is a selection of randomly picked destinations that are updated every now based on sometimes viewer count other times traffic count or sometimes just because. Wow 14 categories... now go to the real actual destination guide and look at the 48 categories (not including the sub categories). Only 34 categories short for the in viewer destination popup. Its easier for someone to find something when it is under the correct category and not the catch all categories of the in viewer destination pop-up. 30 clubs and music places you say? Only 170 destinations short from the actual destination guide. And whilst yes some might not be populated at that time it still provides people to explore to perhaps find a club they might like to go back to when populated if they are on. Especially since the in viewer destinations pop-up gets capped. Or look at Nature and Beaches category. Inworld it has 30 Destinations, full guide has over 120 in the Beaches and Nature/Park categories alone, but, also that over 120 doesn't include underwater, winter attractions, photogenic spots, vacation spots or real life categories which all add even more places to look at that would be under Nature and Beach's. Additionally, the full destination guide also has avatar count on each destination though because it has hosting server restrictions it updates at a slower pace (like any website) than the in viewer destination guide which btw also isn't Real-Time. Also the inviewer destination popup can be buggy. For example when new user may log in the avatar count may not appear as sometimes it takes a while to populate. For example, I downloaded the default viewer for these which you could take as a new person downloading and then going to WelcomHUB doing their walkabout and then opening the destinations in viewer: Notice how when I look at it, a fresh install, I dont have either the 'whats hot now' category or the avatar count on the default viewer? Because to get it showing properly you usually have to let it sit a long time and populate or in most cases shut the viewer down and relog to show the avatar count and different locations. Also notice that the destinations are completely different to what you show. So any new person with a fresh viewer download and start will not see not only the FULL destination guide but also a borked destinations popup in the viewer. Now lets look at Firestorm: All of a sudden avatar count shows and what's hot now shows. But whilst 'What's hot Now' shows in the above image for Firestorm, it wasn't showing for me but avatar counts were when I was logged into firestorm before closing it to take the default viewer pics. Also take notice of the 'Whats hot now' destinations and you will see 'Exhale Dance Club' whereas in the club and music section you wont see it, despite is being one of the highest avatar counts for a club/music venue. Yet Warehouse 21 shows in both. Second Life is a huge virtual world with lots to explore. Whilst yes I grant you that the destinations popup in viewer at least provides some form of help and guiding for a new user in what to do next they dont see how big and expansive creation wise SL actually is unless they have access to more destinations that wont involve them trying to search match or map dot hunt. As to your the Community Centre comment about being unnecessary, I fully agree. If however LL are going to do it the least they could do is make it right. -
Nobody goes to the Community Exhibition in WelcomeHub.
Drayke Newall replied to animats's topic in General Discussion Forum
The problem as I mentioned is that whilst yes they showcase a region to a person, it is hardly representative of the whole community unless LL are defining 'community' in a manner of a single entity community rather than a collection of places as per their previous community advertisement attempts. That is fine, however, it needs to be clearer to the new user. I must admit I did laugh when I saw that Linden Realms also has a 'community exhibit' there despite already having a portal and advertisement in the games area. As for it being hard to showcase non-single communities, it is not hard at all. Simply make a entrance that teleports a user to another place whereby there are showcases of multiple region exhibits of that said community all in the same place grouped together. Also not a portal effect it is overdone. There are plenty of immersive ways that a person can be teleported to a place without the need of a portal effect or a cannon. I am no fan of the destination guide especially given that a lot of the time it contains regions that no longer exist and also the fact that it is a system that you have to apply to and get approved by Linden Lab rather than taking data directly from the about land and applying the description and images from there doesn't help either. It is better though than nothing for new users to find some place to go to that they would be interested in especially since the search UI often doesn't really help in finding somewhere and is slow (probably because it looks to link to the website search). As to that button you mention, sorry that is not the destination guide at all. It is a Linden Picked selection of regions that are empty, boring or laggy. They also seem to never change much. -
Nobody goes to the Community Exhibition in WelcomeHub.
Drayke Newall replied to animats's topic in General Discussion Forum
Ah ok, Aus is out as well likewise a lot of Asia. Think Moles did say it was due to royalties. As to the Hud, I gave up on it even if it didn't play anything. Had to restart my viewer just to detach the supposedly auto removing temp attach hud. -
Nobody goes to the Community Exhibition in WelcomeHub.
Drayke Newall replied to animats's topic in General Discussion Forum
And is the reason why it will stay empty and unused IMO especially when most other countries except US cant hear said music. -
Nobody goes to the Community Exhibition in WelcomeHub.
Drayke Newall replied to animats's topic in General Discussion Forum
Who knows. Based on past Welcome areas though it is more likely for them to create an entire new Welcome Hub before modifying the already established path. -
Nobody goes to the Community Exhibition in WelcomeHub.
Drayke Newall replied to animats's topic in General Discussion Forum
oof... Well worse than I expected it would be. Last I played it was 50L a week. To reduce that again wow. There would be plenty of ways for Linden Lab to have residents earn Lindens and many being suggested in the past here and on jira, however they just refuse to do such things 'for reasons' This then means that, as usual and like Linden Trees in the past etc, to help new players it falls on region owners and other users creating games and donating money to allow for new users to get free lindens. I and many new users past and present thank them for that as well. It's not that the CE hasn't got much to talk about, it's more that fact that it is a disjointed addition to the Welcome Area that feels out of place and just.. well odd. But ok lets talk about CE. Now last time I gave constructive criticism about the welcome hub, I was... well lets just say not like by Moles and others, but CE is just that, an out of place addon that doesn't even flow correctly. Now, whilst the builds may be niceish (albeit high poly in some cases) what is their actual purpose? Do they express the whole of the community they are representing? No. Do they provide any clarity at all to a new user to what Second Life is or offers in said community? No. Do they offer any form of information to the new user on how to find info or places of the community they represent and not just a specific place? No. Do they offer any form of meaning to the path of the tutorial? No It's all well and good to showcase a 'community' through an exhibition, however, why showcase one region? Would it not be better to showcase the community itself and all that it entails rather than a small slice of it? This is also why the 'community pages' Linden Lab made and just stopped and failed as, it offered nothing to a new user except a 'yes we have this community' find it yourself. The only real CE booth that offers a multiple region community experience is the BBB passport of which, well done to the creator of that as it is something many of us have been wanting LL to introduce. Think like a new user. What would you prefer to see in SL at the end of your guide at the Welcome area after learning how to do things etc and wanting to know what to do next? A very specific, and lets face it, advertisement of a region exhibiting themselves and really not a 'community', or for the first time in Second Life's 20 year history LL spend the effort that went into the community pages, CE, etc and put it into actually making SL feel less clunky where a new user (and regular) can access the full destination guide directly in the viewer as part of the ui to find hundreds of their 'community' related destinations they are looking for, rather than having to physically pull up chrome, edge, firefox, etc to actually look at the destination guide and no the in built webviewer is not what I am talking about. Think the already inbuilt destination button and UI element but the full guide not a random selection. I mean good grief, I dont mean to sound horrible but 20 years and a new user and even regular users still have to go to a web browser to look at it (not to mention MP)? I also mean this in the nicest way Moles... the 'What's Next' board on the Welcome Area. Why is everything on there a link to a place on the SL website? Now I haven't used the default viewer for a long time but surely, like tpv viewers, there is still a Group Search and Events Listing section already built into the viewer? Why is a new user pushed out of the SL viewer/immersion to the website rather than opening these UI elements directly? I would dare say that would go against the conditions LL have with the Motown sponsor due to copyright of songs DJ's play without getting the license to play them. -
Nobody goes to the Community Exhibition in WelcomeHub.
Drayke Newall replied to animats's topic in General Discussion Forum
I am sure the Motown region can be used by Linden Lab for other things other than just adding a temp attach hud for US residents only to play music. I said it before when it first opened in these forums that the easiest way for it to be populated at least some of the time and to help user retention etc. is for each new resident from that week be sent an invite to attend a 'welcome concert party' event at the end of the week offering music, fun, freebies, etc. This would make the region and stage at least used once a week and provide a meaning for it to be there whilst also showing new users how Second Life can be used and how it can be fun. But yeah... I know you said this maybe in jest but, why hasn't a helper been added to the viewer UI? There is no need for some laggy NPC companion. Someone mentioned earlier that no new person sees the new IM from a mentor or doesn't know how to use it. This is where such a system would shine. For example: Firstly, the UI helper is togglable off and on and if left on is only there for 30days and auto turns off unless turned on. Secondly, it helps the user dynamically based on what happens in the viewer UI itself. I.e, taking the IM issue mentioned above; as soon as the new user receives their first IM the UI helper pops up saying "I see you have received your first IM (Instant Message) in world! This is a private chat between you and someone else only. To answer do blah, blah, blah... It would easily guide people into how to use the most complicated thing of SL - the viewer of which is also the hardest thing for mentors to explain. You said a paper clip, I have always proposed the system should be Megellan Linden and that the Welcome Hub should be themed on the famous Second Life explorer (the new user exploring how to use SL through the actual story of an Explorer Linden and his adventures in discovering the Second Life Continent - main land). Having both the Welcome Hub themed on him and having a UI helper being him is a no brainer. Newbs are exploring SL for the first time and learning... Megellan is an explorer. Paleio Quest and Linden Realms are based on Megellen and can be part of the entire Welcome Hub story. There are places in old SL that can be updated that can be explored that are based on Megellan. He has an an entire history and story to go by and his own blog (though not updated anymore). As MS eventually admitted to, Clippy was optimised for people using Word for the first time. And for a first time user of Word it was good. The problem it saw was that he never went away... ever and it was this continuous pestering that people hated and saw him removed. So long as the above UI companion/assistant expires after a period of 'newb' or can turn off I believe it would be a great addition. Not to mention a dedicated new user chat only visible and useable to new users, mentors, moles and Lindens. But yeah... ETA: I also remember a very long time (going back to Win95 now lol) where Compton's Encyclopaedia had an interactive UI helper whereby certain features and help was voiced with video of Patrick Stewart the actor. Helpful UI assistants are not new and when done right can be fun and very helpful. There are plenty of ways to earn good money in SL for free (some allow you to earn 100's of lindens a day not the measly 50 a week Linden Realm offers) but, because Linden Lab dont own them or aren't getting paid by some sponsor for it, they dont mention or use them. I remember Linden Money Trees being everywhere back in the early hype years of SL and of course we also all remember L$ camping stuff. Both which many new users were able to earn decent Lindens to subsidise the items they couldn't get at the gazillion freebie places around. Now those ways to earn lindens are gone (or banned), the new ways are not advertised by LL like the old ones were and the gazillion freebie places (also once advertised at old welcome hubs and was a key reason why people stayed - they didn't need to spend money) have reduced to one or two of which haven't seen quality or comparable modern items for free added in near 15 years. This means that it is left to new users either blindly searching or by chance discovering them or by pure luck meeting someone that knows those ways to earn cash or how to get good freebie things that cant be found in one place. -
What do you think "LL will 'never' Change or Fix"?
Drayke Newall replied to Love Zhaoying's topic in General Discussion Forum
I'm no scripting expert, however, couldn't a person just use a particle mask rule to make it so that the particle dies on impact with the specified object? So, if the object is called roof the particle dies or alternatively using raycast to find objects and kill the particle on impact (this is how many games do it). If there isn't a LSL command to do this I am surprised. I can remember somewhere seeing a particle dead_mask when I was playing around with particles and scripting many years ago but dont know if that would be the same. -
We need better ways to organize our inventory
Drayke Newall replied to Marianne Little's topic in General Discussion Forum
Off the top of my head... Split screen inventory (not new window, think windows explorer with folder structure on one side like we have now and separate split for inside the folder) for ease of drag and drop of items into a different folder without needing to open a new inventory window for something that should be done in one window. Allow us to change file icons to something other than a box or group of boxes for an object to allow for quick identification of what an object is. Allow to show creation date/obtain date in different column without the need to open a new properties window Allow for properties page of item to have link to MP and/or Landmark instead of creator needing to include info as separate file/notecard in folder. This gets rid of the additional landmark files in every folder. Can also link the file to MP in a manner to allow for reviewing an item directly from SL. I.e. more interaction between MP and the files/inventory. Allow properties page of an item to include item details such as text fields (as a selectable tab on the properties page) that provide all info a creator usually provides in a notecard and have it linked to the MP website where the creator can add that detail in a custom field when setting up for sale and it shows on the properties page and is updated as the creator updates the file (i.e. how to, copyright, changelog, etc). Removing the issue the OP, and all of us have entirely in needing to find and delete the thousands of notecards in an inventory taking up resources. Allow to show images in a folder as thumbnails (size adjustable) and not list view with the need to open the image or hover on it like has been introduced (need item 1 split screen above for this) Allow for right click>move to folder>select folder which would be far quicker than opening the file tree and finding the right place especially useful for moving received folder. Either have it as favourite folders are selectable or allow for typing in the folder name to quick select. Allow renaming of no-mod files/objects Provide additional tabs at the top of inventory for things like last modified, recently worn (which technically should be in the outfit window), etc. Could go on, but wont. All in all, I am in favour of a more fully automated inventory (and outfit management system) where it is directly linked to MP and the inventory folders rather than a received items folder, i.e. inventory folders and MP categories match so if a person buys a shirt it places it in the shirt folder, etc (posted about it before with images for outfit management so wont bore people with it again). I know that many dont like that idea for some reason, so if LL are going to keep the inventory system as a tree system then at least modernise it and add the above and more to allow for less inventory clutter and ease of use UI and inventory. What we have now is a Windows 3.1 system where everything selected in the inventory has a new window pop-up when it should be a Windows 11 system where as much as possible should be included in the same window or attached to the files. ETA As for unpacker scripts they should not be necessary at all. MP allows for direct delivery as a folder structure without the need to even rez a box or attach a hud to 'get your items'. Both are completely unnecessary and now that caspervend is owned by LL any inworld delivery of an object can be tied to MP as well. Backups would also be unnecessary as you can simply go to MP and select redeliver unless they are no-copy which wouldn't have a back-up item anyway. So using the above changes to the inventory and MP/caspervend (linked) there should be no need for notecards, landmarks, backup boxes, huds, unpacker scripts/images/animations/sounds, etc to be included in the packaged item folder. All that should be in the folder provided when purchased is the item itself and perhaps an image of what it looks like though that could also be added as an image to the properties window as well (like the profile image that you click on to expand). -
What do you think "LL will 'never' Change or Fix"?
Drayke Newall replied to Love Zhaoying's topic in General Discussion Forum
Hey, dont shoot the messenger. Oz and Ebbe mentioned the hosting asset servers on AWS in specific regions. If Oz was wrong so be it however he most definitely mentioned it with Ebbe confirming it in an interview for press when Oz was right next to him. Maybe it was a case of transferring from Akami to AWS, but as far as I am aware Oz and Ebbe both saw such a move as necessary for SL to improve. So much so they announced it in marketing interviews and what not. Perhaps he was lying or wrong, who knows. I do know Ebbe and Oz also did mentioned that they MAY be able to also have the regions hosted somehow in different zones (like @Arielle Popstar mentioned) however not as a complicated method but based on simply who uses that region more. For example if the majority of users using a region are located in England then the region is hosted in England. Just like how discord allows you to choose which voice server you are located on, the same is applied to SL regions. This doesn't stop people from US going to the region, however gives priority latency to the users that use the region more. Such a thing is simple to implement and would be a case of having the user select the world zone upon requesting a new region. Here is the quote from ebbe/oz mentioning such a system: "Today we are located in the US, which means that people from Australia or Asia or Europe have to travel quite a ways, which is hundreds of extra milliseconds of latency. So if you want to have a very dedicated community in Australia or somewhere, we could maybe start to distribute our server infrastructure to be closer to where the actual customers of those regions are, which would make things more performant." ETA: To add to the thread rather than derail it further, one thing LL will never change is the way in which textures are created i.e. create textures in world using shapes like most modern user generated systems use. -
What do you think "LL will 'never' Change or Fix"?
Drayke Newall replied to Love Zhaoying's topic in General Discussion Forum
Erm... that is not what LL were proposing to do. It has nothing to do with where the sim hosting servers are located as they were always intended to be located in the USA. LL were talking about the assets. SL assets have been on AWS for longer than regions, however, they are still located in the USA. This means that when a person logs in or tps into a region, the viewer has to still grab the assets from the servers in the USA. This means that there is greater chance of congestion, higher latency and increased packet loss all affecting how quickly mesh, textures, inventory, etc are downloaded and displayed. By having the asset servers located in different (multiple) region zones (europe, asia, pacific, england, etc) it would allow for better loading speed of the assets and allow for less congestion as people located in pacific region would get their assets from say Sydney, people in asia from japan etc. This is how all streaming services are run when downloading is required assets are required due to the same issues. This is what Oz intended when he and LL promised doing as such and as Oz also mentioned, would improve and speed up the SL experience. -
Does Linden Labs Not Care About Secondlife?
Drayke Newall replied to xxSweetMuskxx's topic in General Discussion Forum
Yes they did loose 30-40 devs when Sansar failed. Majority of the Devs that moved from SL to Sansar were also laid off and never returned to their previous roles on SL. -
Does Linden Labs Not Care About Secondlife?
Drayke Newall replied to xxSweetMuskxx's topic in General Discussion Forum
It is actually pretty bad. It is a jumble of different page themes from different decades that makes the website, support, account and marketplace very disconnected. Most companies, if not all, have a single theme across all of their web content. This way a new person looking at it is presented with a good example of how 'interested' the company is in updating their content etc. This then reflects on providing the impression of "if their web content is this good' then they care about their product. Whilst I agree that comparing second life's website with in world brands isn't right, how about comparing it to a similar platform. Second Life is a content generation platform and whilst also a virtual world it operates similar to unreal engine in that people create content using second life as a content creation platform. If you then compare Second Life's website to Unreal Engine's website: Unreal Engine, there is a vast difference in both the modern look and professionalism of the website as well as the coherence of the theme. This includes the homepage, forums, and their marketplace. All operating in the same theme. Compare that to something like SL's website and they have a different theme for almost every single page. -
Actually it does. Linden Lab are known for releasing products and never updating them, even if they promised to do so. Experiences, EEP, BoM, etc were all released with promises that they would be improved and features added gradually but never were. I think you are misunderstanding what PekeNL meant. Whilst yes there were more people working on MW2, even if there were the same amount of people working on the entire game as Second Life, it would not have taken them 2 years to create two mesh bodies with a selection of badly fitting clothes that used a character creation system that was already made. What's more, according to Patch, very well-known content creators (avatar body, head, hair, clothing) came on board with them, as Moles, to work on this project. They would have had the experience to be able to mesh, rig and UV map the entire body within a matter of months if that. There is nothing demanding in these NUX bodies that would justify 2 years worth of creation time as it is a simple 1 layer mesh body with no complex body hud, etc. If such an avatar did take 2 years worth of planning, creation, updating website sign-up, etc, then for the quality given with these avatars and the process I have to wonder what they did with all that time. Badly fitting mesh clothes, hair mesh instead of hair bases, generic shapes with no slider customisation on the website update meaning a genetic twin standing next to you when you rez in, etc. Staff wise at most 5 people would have worked on these bodies in any gaming company be it indie or AAA and even that is a stretch. One for concept, one for meshing/rigging, one for skinning, one for website integration and the other for oversight. Then you also have the issue's of complicating things for the new user. Now Patch earlier said: "Allowing for total and free control on content in a dismally confusing system of choices and options that can either hurt or destroy the user experience is not one we will promote." They have created exactly what they set out not to do. With these avatars new users still have to work out how to use sliders to make themselves look different of which as shown in this and other threads is quite hard (to near impossible) as a lot of customisation sliders dont work, are limited or just dont allow for it based on how the skin and mesh are made. You also have in the library no indication to a new user what the need of an Alpha mask is, confusing names of content and and options, issues where new people will wear items directly from the library (if they can find the free clothes in there in the first place) and wonder where they are located once worn due to it just putting the item in the object folder instead of showing 'worn' in the library itself'. So much for not promoting a "dismally confusing system of choices and options". The vid posted by Naria Panthera and others says it all. So many missed opportunities and in no way has improved the retention of new users.
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Thanks for confirming. I was sceptical of it as the wiki has always maintained that 2048 textures do exist, but it wouldn't be the first time the wiki was wrong either. Good to know they still exist. Shame LL dont use the 2048 terrain textures they had in the library on the only thing they should be allowed on. Terrain.