Scylla Rhiadra

Well, I reflect upon the fact that, after some false starts, I did meet my dream. As, I'm sure, will you, Gopi. Has it occurred to you that you may actually be some else's "dream guy or girl"? I think that's entirely possible. Maybe it's just waiting to happen.

Thanks? I guess? I can't do much with your "like," but I and others here would be grateful for a language that is more respectful -- or at least less offensively sexist. That's all. But I think we've established that, so maybe you can just move along. I don't really have anything more to add. Have a good day.

Yeah. I know there are going to be people who doubt this, but I actually hate this kind of thing. I'm genuinely distressed when a thread like the "chat/IM" one, that I thought was going to be harmless, if interesting, turns into a flame fest. I don't like belligerent arguments. And I don't think it looks good on us, as a community. But I'm not sure what to do . . . pass over offensive things in silence? Put the people who post them on "ignore" so that we can maintain the illusion of a nice, quiet little place where everyone just gets along? After all, if I can't see it, it's not really offensive or insulting . . . right? And, of course, most of this will be gone by tomorrow afternoon, with a reminder that it's important to maintain "civility" and "respectful language" here. A tad ironic, no?

I think I must have skimmed over that part, but i suppose it's something we've heard before. I'm not about to tell people that they have falsified, or are wrong about their experience. But I can affirm that it is not my experience. I do get my share of one-word IMs that, as usually quickly becomes evident, are about sex, but I get some that aren't, and I certainly don't assume that everyone who contacts me is hungering for my hawt little mesh bod. I think, in any case, that it's always dangerous to generalize from the limits of one's own experience to a broader assertion about a culture. I think women are as capable of being as judgemental, obnoxious, and unfair, as anyone else. I don't know that merely assuming that someone who IMs you wants sex is in and of itself unfair, but treating everyone who does contact you harshly because you think so certainly is. Again, respect, right? That means, among other things, not prejudging.

Oh, I remember. Not a very edifying chapter in the SL forum's history. In fact, that whole period was almost best forgotten (and very little of it, I note, has been archived here).

Who has said this? I certainly haven't. Has someone else, and I missed it? Again, Tari, who is okay with this? Agreed. Totally.

I'm not sure if that's what he meant or not, but yeah. The accusation of "alt" is a pretty standard one. When I first appeared on the forums in whatever year it was, I was accused of being an alt, or having alts, or something similar, I don't really remember. It's kind of a handy way of not having to deal with the actual content of a post. The idea that you are my alt is rather amusing, though. 🙂

I left when this was mentioned the 2nd time. It's just getting old. Hey Conall, you know who else is really bored of the word "misogyny"? Me. I'm tired of reading it, I'm tired of writing it. Wanna know what you can do to ensure that neither of us has to deal with it ever again? Help eradicate it.

THIS THIS THIS. That is what this is all about. Why is this so fricking hard???? Don't use denigrating terms to refer to women. Don't accuse them of being cabalistic gonad-eating witches when they get offended at language that is not respectful. Don't objectify them and salivate as you count them, as though they were some kind of herd animal you can hunt and kill. Don't dismiss their concerns as "hysteria." Help foster a respectful environment for everyone by calling out people who do any of the above things. Honest to god, we're not asking much. BE RESPECTFUL. I'm not interested in wars, and I can assure you that I'm not marshaling legions of feminist minions and alts to bury you. I ask one, simple thing. Please don't use derogatory, insulting, and reductive language to refer to women. Is that really so much to ask?

I neither like you, nor dislike you. I don't care very much about you at all, to be honest. But I would very much like you to stop throwing degrading and sexist terms like "P2D" around here, please. They are insulting, and you know it.

I'm sorry, Caer! I somehow missed your post. You said essentially what I said, but better.

Now I have Attenborough's voice describing the scene at an SL club running through my mind . . . thanks for that. I am going to say something further that is probably going to not be very popular. (Somewhere out there, Maddy is burying her face in her hands.) I really do, honestly and truly, believe that most men who post here are generally supportive of women. The really egregious sexism I occasionally see here emanates, really, from a small handful of voices. What Beth said above about really loving men applies to me as well, and to you and other women here. But I'm actually genuinely disappointed, and maybe even a little angry, that I'm not hearing those supportive male voices here. I am really more than a little upset that men will pop in here to take me and other women here to task for not being "welcoming" to men, without saying so much as a word about nonsense like this: So, you're upset that I joked that women were being characterized, ridiculously, as though they were knitting during the guillotining of aristocrats during the Terror . . . but you apparently see nothing wrong -- certainly nothing to comment on -- about this? So, hey guys. I do want SL to be more welcoming for men. I am interested in ways of accomplishing that. How about demonstrating a little reciprocity, and voicing some support for the women here, instead of passing over in silence the blatant misogyny that's popped up in this thread? How about focusing less on the angry response of the women to this misogynist garbage, and a little more on the crap that provoked it? Where are you, men? Seriously.

Yeah. In the final analysis, someone who has chosen to use the "ignore" button to avoid listening to alternate perspectives has already signaled that they don't matter. They aren't listening, engaging, learning, or contributing. I think that most men here know that we value their presence, and their contributions to the forums, and to Second Life. And I would like to believe that most understand why we might respond the way we have to this kind of misogyny. But there are a few posters here who have done their level best to make this thread an "unwelcoming" place for women. And I have no intention of letting that stand.

The guillotine subtopic, as you put it, was not free-standing, and didn't pop out of nowhere. It was riffing upon, and mocking, the equally "not particularly welcoming" characterization of women in this forum as a "misandrist forum knitting circle" -- a characterization that you, btw, implicitly endorsed in your own response. As you may or may not be aware, a group of Jacobin women who witnessed the Terror did so while working at their knitting: that was where the image was drawn from. It was not advocacy for castration: it was explicitly mocking the ridiculous suggestion that women here are attacking men. We aren't. Maybe I'm being too subtle. Let me be a bit more blunt. I will not be "welcoming" men who refer to women here as a "misandrist forum knitting circle." I will not be "welcoming" men who refer to all women as "p******" I will not be "welcoming" men who talk about how "hysterical" women are. Unfriendly of me, I know. But am I being a bit clearer?

I think, with respect, that you are reading it wrong, Beth. My reference to "female genitals" was an allusion to the use of the term -- from a man -- of "P2D." I am pretty sure I'm not wrong in my assumption about what the "P" here stands for. This is precisely about language. Had this poster said something like "SL is a great place to meet people! Those looking for romantic or sexual partners will meet many others who share their interest," I'd have not merely not commented -- I'd have agreed. My remarks weren't "***** shaming": they were a criticism of someone choosing language that reduces me and all women to the status of my genitals.