Saturation -- Too many events -- Survey of sorts

[Chris Corvinus]

36 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

You are funny. Yes, a free market is self regulating. A completely free market has no regulating authority imposing restrictions on sellers or consumers. Sellers do what they want and consumers decide what they want to consume and it works amazingly well. When thieves and fraudsters attempt to corrupt the market and abuse people society steps in and prosecutes the abusers.

Your thinking the SL market is totally unregulated ignores that the SL market consists of SL sellers and SL buyers, the people that make free markets self regulating.

Neither the seller nor the buyers are doing anything about oversaturation in the market and that's because nobody wants to regulate. Everyone is fine just complaining about it. There is zero self regulation in the SL market.

Have you seen what is done to those who copybot and steal and sell others work? Nothing. And its super rare when something is done. And copybot items are in extreme abundance and people still buy them because buyers don't care.

The market here is mostly comprised of items that were bought from a full perm creator and rehashed over and over and over from different stores. That's why you see the same thing in different textures at events. Rarely is anything actually new. I've personally seen quite a few at big events.

What Second Life has is an unregulated free market economy. Period.

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Chris Nova said:

What Second Life has is an unregulated free market economy. Period.

By definition a free market economy is:

- an economic system based on supply and demand with little or no government control.

The main characteristics of a free market economy are:

Private property, Freedom of choice, Motivation of self interest, competition, limited government.

Every time you institute a regulation the market becomes less free. I personally think a free market economy is good to a point, but I fully support regulations, but I also understand that means I'm making the market less free with every regulation imposed. 

Removing copybotted items is a function of the law and not necessarily regulating a free market, IMO. I can't tell you how many times I've seen merchants accused of copybotting, when I know the product that is being identified as a copy is in reality a full perm item or a mesh model purchased from a third party seller. These are not copybotted items. Of course, there are true copybotted items, and in such cases the original creator can file a DMCA against the person who has copied their original mesh model/creation. 

As for as the abundance of retextured full perm items is concerned, that's perfectly legal and acceptable if the seller wants to gamble their money buying such products. If the person has really good texturing skills and can offer a superior product because of those skills I say more power to them. But I rarely will buy something that is simply a retextured full perm item. In a free market those kinds of products typically get weeded out because they simply are not profitable. After a merchant has lost money on a few full perm items they typically stop investing in full perm products and will either close their store or learn how to make their own mesh products. This is the function of a free market. 

So basically, what I'm saying is the best way to "regulate" a free market is with your own pocketbook. Don't like a merchant's business model? Don't buy their products. It's even possible that the business practices of a merchant can be so bad that you could get others to join you in boycotting that business. This is how a free market works. 

[Rowan Amore]

I've purchased several template outfits from one popular creator.  Her texturing is great and I can get 30 plus colors/textures for the price of one original mesh outfit.  This is a great option for people on a limited budget that aren't interested in wearing the latest and greatest.  One fat pack for 250L or one item 250L?  There is a need for those less expensive choices.

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Event venues don't pay for themselves. It's a business expense.

You may be speaking for yourself but in five or six years in events I broke even to making $120,000 lindens (the booth fee was 5,000 on hat one) on each event. The only event that I participated in at the end of 2021 I made over 6,000 linden profit (a niche event that I had fun being in).  The creators that I know and chat with are USUALLY making a small to good profit in each event.     These are GOOD creators, not "slap on a tint to a template" folks.

 

From what I know and who I talk to I suspect that overall among long time creators that event profits are down. That is in PART because many to most creators are taking place in the events still but not making anything very exciting -- just going through the motions.  There are exceptions of course and those are the people I usually buy from :D.   

 

If creators choose to spend event fees knowing it is a loss that is of course their choice.  I never saw any point in that and when the event started to wane and my profit margin decreased even with good creative products --- I just left that event and moved on.  

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Chic Aeon
fixing grammar

[Chic Aeon]

2 hours ago, Lysistrata Szapira said:

I guess I'm a contrarian.  I really don't much care for the S&H gift card or credit gifts.  9 times out of 10 they'll barely pay for one item (and in many cases they don't even do that).

The last round of the Shop and Hop (December) changed the rules so that gift cards given out needed to be hefty.  I think it was $500 lindens. So that is no longer the case, but I do agree that a "gift" should be large enough to actually buy something easily and not have to add your own lindens in order to purchase. 

[Prokofy Neva]

6 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

True, but at L$5000 per booth, that is still a healthy profit for the organizer.  Just for 50 booths, that is $1000.  That is quite a bit over the monthly fee for a full region - and events that actually use an entire region have far more than just 50 booths.

They have to pay staff and they may have some advertising fees although Seraphim says it advertises events for free.

[Pamela Galli]

7 hours ago, Lysistrata Szapira said:

 

Sometimes I will use MP to search and then go in-world to look and purchase.  You can't tell LOD from MP.  Sometimes you don't even get a prim count or land impact count on MP.  I'm not spending my money on something I can't see when there's no demo. 

The best use of MP is what you describe — to locate inworld demos. If you know how to effectively use the marketplace search, it’s not that hard. Plus not long ago LL announced multiple measures to ensure stale products don’t sit there forever. Also, some are still unaware: You can redeliver copyable items to yourself.

And let me repeat our frequent refrain in the forum:

NEVER BUY WITHOUT SEEING A DEMO!  No demo, no purchase. 

So IMO if you find that Marketplace is full of garbage from 2008 — you’re doing it wrong.

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

The last round of the Shop and Hop (December) changed the rules so that gift cards given out needed to be hefty.  I think it was $500 lindens.

Someone violated that one.  Don't remember who now, but I tossed one because it wouldn't cover but a bit over half of a typical outfit at the store.  Might have used it if I liked the stuff more.

[Chic Aeon]

On 1/20/2022 at 3:52 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

Someone violated that one.  Don't remember who now, but I tossed one because it wouldn't cover but a bit over half of a typical outfit at the store.  Might have used it if I liked the stuff more.

Actually there have been plenty of violations all along. I reported a few at the beginning but most were ignored.  The gacha machines I reported were removed (this on a round when they weren't allowed) but other things such as full price items set out when everything was supposed to be 20 percent off or more -- were ignored.  

I have found over time that  it is best to keep your mouth shut in most events (Lost and Found was the only one that actually policed that "I" found) as most event owners do NOT want to know and the person reporting is NOT in favor LOL.    

[MirandaBowers]

I started losing interest in the events when I had to literally keep a calendar to try and keep up with them. I just gave up!

[Qie Niangao]

The events in the weekend teleport-fest are in full swing now and I made it through the Seraphim directory of pages finding nothing at all to even look at. Meanwhile I was struck by the number of brands that seem to feel obliged to have products in a whole bunch of simultaneous events.

You can be sure quality will suck when you arrive to an anteroom full of different event vendors.

But also, what's with all the respectable brands that are in the wrong events? If a creator looks around at what other merchants are offering at an event and your stuff is arguably the best of the lot, you should not be in that event! It does not make your brand "shine" in comparison, but rather it drags it down to the perceived quality of the least of the products on offer.

As others have mentioned, this is what happens at Shop & Hop, for example, but at least there some top merchants have figured out it's not for them. They should be doing the same for other events, if they're trying to build a brand or hope to preserve one.

Clearing some marginal profit at an event is not a measure of success. Not if it degrades the market position a creator can occupy.

[Nalates Urriah]

On 1/20/2022 at 8:46 AM, Chris Nova said:

Neither the seller nor the buyers are doing anything about oversaturation in the market and that's because nobody wants to regulate. Everyone is fine just complaining about it. There is zero self regulation in the SL market.

Have you seen what is done to those who copybot and steal and sell others work? Nothing. And its super rare when something is done. And copybot items are in extreme abundance and people still buy them because buyers don't care.

The market here is mostly comprised of items that were bought from a full perm creator and rehashed over and over and over from different stores. That's why you see the same thing in different textures at events. Rarely is anything actually new. I've personally seen quite a few at big events.

What Second Life has is an unregulated free market economy. Period.

You really don't seem to understand how a free market works. Blush explained the overview. I'll be more detailed...

In a free market buyers deal with over saturation by shopping at the shops they prefer. Usually those with lower prices, better products, better service etc. Those sellers losing customers to the better shops experience lower returns on their investment, profits drop, and eventually they drop out. Others recognize the state of the market and decide to enter or stay out.The number of shops increases and decreases as as the marketplace moves toward what consumers will support. No regulating authority is needed.

In communist and socialist countries people are indoctrinated with the idea that government is needed to regulate the marketplace. History shows people in such countries suffer the stupidities of a bureaucratic system. Always.

Copyboting is theft. Theft is handled by the legal system not by regulating who can and cannot sell. Thieves are prosecuted.... at least they used to be. In the US we now have RL cities where theft is not prosecuted. Since theft in SL is only prosecuted by RL authorities one could make a decent argument SL theft isn't prosecuted. Whatever, forcing regulations on the marketplace is not the answer to theft.

As to whether people care... in the time you have been in SL there have been uprisings against those caught stealing and selling in SL. So when people KNOW they do something. You don't remember?

We have people in SL just as we do in RL that cheat, steal, and lie.  So just as we have politicians blaming their crimes on others we have thieves in SL saying those they are stealing from are the thieves. So vigilantism in SL is very likely to injure the innocent. So, reacting what people say in SL is OFTEN foolish.

Quoting: "What Second Life has is an unregulated free market economy." Right. And that is a good thing. Hopefully your thinking will progress and you'll realize that once freedom is attained all else is regression to an oppressive society.

[Silent Mistwalker]

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. ~Kris Kristofferson

[Pamela Galli]

SL is different from RL in that supply doesn’t decrease when products are sold. Supply only expands, notwithstanding that sellers do take a few things off sale now and then.

After years of expanding supply and shrinking demand due to shrinking customer base, you get quite a glut of inventory, and with it ever decreasing prices — on top of LL not only loading sellers with more and increasing fees but going into direct competition with sellers (eg houses).

Sellers scrambling to maintain income are naturally going to resort to whatever will enable them to get things on the market as fast as they can, which means not spending the time it takes to make original content  regularly. 

 

[Pamela Galli]

On 1/20/2022 at 10:46 AM, Chris Nova said:

What Second Life has is an unregulated free market economy. Period.

Not entirely, because LL removes items from marketplace that have not sold in a long time or ever, or when a merchant has not logged in in a long time. LL is also very strict about the use of any of its super secret banned words. Also I had to relist my bars as Moderate because liquor was shown in the pictures (presumably Applebee’s is PG 13 since anyone who walks in sees the bar. But I digress.) They also in theory remove IP infringing content.

[Chic Aeon]

OK Guys -- policing here,

 

THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT THE MARKETPLACE.

 

PLEASE KEEP ON TOPIC!!!!

 

 

[Marianne Little]

This weekend started well for my wallet, nothing I wanted to buy in FLF. That did not last when I opened the Wanderlust gallery. It is a very small event, but I always look for my favorite jewelry designer, and this week she was there. Looking up Happy Weekend and The Saturday Sale, I found some things there too. I even consider logging in a male alt or two to get a fine hair. 

I let my eyes just skip over what I am never going to buy, I do not think the stores I like are worse if they are in the event with brands I find bad or inferior. I have the brands I look up, the ones I with almost 100% certainty is going to buy unless I have it before. A pose maker, landscape designer, hairs... I also look at well made images from other stores. Do they stand out? If so, I am always willing to go there.

I am not where I am tired of the Weekend sales yet. But I am trying really hard to curb myself and not buy everything just because it is cheap.

[blissfulbreeze]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:15 PM, Rowan Amore said:

I've purchased several template outfits from one popular creator.  Her texturing is great and I can get 30 plus colors/textures for the price of one original mesh outfit.  This is a great option for people on a limited budget that aren't interested in wearing the latest and greatest.  One fat pack for 250L or one item 250L?  There is a need for those less expensive choices.

Would you be able to private message me the brand please? I'm always looking for a great bargain.

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, blissfulbreeze said:

Would you be able to private message me the brand please? I'm always looking for a great bargain.

Will do.

[Lessa Joubert]

I honestly wonder if it's that all the events have the same stuff or more a case of all the stuff in SL is the same these days. I rarely find anything that excites me. It's all new textures on the same templates. And when I do find something interesting there's a strong possibility that it's not available for my body as I don't wear a Maitreya body. So . . . it all feels like slogging through the same boring stuff. Where's the innovation? It's SL. There's no real gravity. You can make literally anything. So why is every event, hunt, sale, and store full of the same tank dress, cropped top, and micro-mini? (I do know the answer to that, I just needed to rant about it anyway.)

[Amanda Crisp]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:21 PM, Chic Aeon said:

I was about to start putting my personal thoughts on paper -- well virtual paper anyway, but then I stopped to reflect.  I know I am not alone  in the "Please, please, make it stop" outlook concerning the preponderance of events.  But, is there an equally stalwart contingent that have hunkered down in the trenches waving "We Want More!"  ? 

 

I just counted approximately 250 events listed on Seraphim, most of them occurring weekly or monthly, That is close to 4,000 events (super sloppy in my head math but you get the idea) events per year.  Some are large, some small; a few (I can think of only two really) that I look forward to when they come around twice a year.

 

I find I don't really care much any more. The possibility of finding something I really like at an event has decreased over time. These days I am better off exploring some well-made sims and inspecting the stylist's choices.   I now only look at a very few weekend sales. This past Saturday I bought two things and featured nothing.  Still, that may just be ME. 

 

So give me some input here guys. What would you like to see happen to events?  I know a lot of very talented creators whose incomes are WAY down and who make very little profit on events these days. These folks toil more with less reward. This can't go on forever.  

 

You’re talking Shopping events?  I am a dance club DJ and *I* was about to agree with you 🙂

So far as targeted shopping in SL, I do much better by looking at my RSS feed that’s set to collect info from any number of Fashion Divas whose I follow. Going to the shopping event is something I do when I’m bored :-)

 

[Sid Nagy]

When a lot of women start to complain about too much shopping possibilities, isn't that a sure sign that the end of times is near?

 

/me shows himself out.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Sid Nagy
but of course I took the time to edit the post a bit first.

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

I mentioned in another thread is that my grievance is that most of those 250 events are for women's clothing. There are other avatars in SL. Even when we gets events that might appeal, it's still usually flooded with women's clothing. It's to the point where I don't even look at events much anymore because there's never anything for me.

[Leahndra]

9 hours ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

I mentioned in another thread is that my grievance is that most of those 250 events are for women's clothing. There are other avatars in SL. Even when we gets events that might appeal, it's still usually flooded with women's clothing. It's to the point where I don't even look at events much anymore because there's never anything for me.

This is why my partner has stopped to go with me to all the events. He is utterly bored because there is nothing for him at all, except some buildings here and there. 

[Finite]

11 hours ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

I mentioned in another thread is that my grievance is that most of those 250 events are for women's clothing. There are other avatars in SL. Even when we gets events that might appeal, it's still usually flooded with women's clothing. It's to the point where I don't even look at events much anymore because there's never anything for me.

It's always been tough for guys however it's not as bad now as it was in the past. TMD (The Men's Department) and Man Cave are decent monthlies for guys. There's also the Syndicate group that generally has events with a lot of guy stuff.

As per the OP, I remember last winter there was a bit of lull after the holidays. Things pick back up again around March when the quarterlies start rolling out again. The monthlies I generally just check to see what creators I like have come out with. Other than that it's the quarterlies (Cyber Fair, NeoJapan ect..) that I save my pennies for.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Finite