Security/Privacy and New Linden Homes

[Dyna Mole]

37 minutes ago, Vega Firelyte said:

Since we are talking about this, I do have a question regarding the orbs and flying.  I was flying my helicopter yesterday, at 150m and was hit with 2 different orb warnings as I was flying over.  One had a 15 second warning and the other had a 5 second warning.  Was I flying too low and should go to 200m or is that still too low?

The LH Security System cannot be set to detect beyond 400m above or below wherever you have it set up, and you cannot set it up anywhere between 100m and 2000m above sea level. It won't turn on if you do.  That means that if everyone were using the LH Security System or an orb that conforms to its design, there should be a free fly zone between 500m and 1600m above sea level.  You might run into someone's system above or below there .  Even if you do, the system should give you at least 15 seconds of warning before ejecting you (not sending you home).  If you find a security system that is not conforming to those standards, we recommend sending its owner a polite reminder.  Point to the Bellisseria covenant that is in World -- About Land -- Covenant for the details.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Dyna Mole

[Gryphon Ronas]

5 minutes ago, Dyna Mole said:

The LH Security System cannot be set to detect beyond 400m above or below wherever you have it set up, and you cannot set it up anywhere between 100m and 2000m above sea level. It won't turn on if you do.  That means that if everyone were using the LH Security System or an orb that conforms to its design, there should be a free fly zone between 500m and 1600m above sea level.  You might run into someone's system above or below there .  Even if you do, the system should give you at least 15 seconds of warning before ejecting you (not sending you home).  If you find a security system that is not conforming to those standards, we recommend sending its owner a polite reminder.  Point to the Bellisseria covenant that is in World -- About Land -- Covenant for the details.

OK, wait a sec....

Above sea level?  That's 20m according to our viewers. Granted, a 20 meter difference in the big scheme of things isn't much, but...  Drama happens

[Dyna Mole]

12 minutes ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

OK, wait a sec....

Above sea level?  That's 20m according to our viewers. Granted, a 20 meter difference in the big scheme of things isn't much, but...  Drama happens

Yeah, ooops.  I just corrected my post.  20m isn't enough to make a difference most of the time, but we really don't want any fistfights over the details.  400m is 400m, not 420.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Dyna Mole

[Gryphon Ronas]

25 minutes ago, Dyna Mole said:

Yeah, ooops.  I just corrected my post.  20m isn't enough to make a difference most of the time, but we really don't want any fistfights over the details.  400m is 400m, not 420.

Please realize that the only reason my post was done that way was because if you corrected it, it has forum-cred as opposed to someone else saying it.

That being said, I do wonder about how the altitudes actually apply here.  My impression has been that the upper level is defined by the viewer reported height of 2000 meters and that is an absolute.  But the security systems measure from where they are placed.  So it sounds like that would be more of a case of the lower altitudes and defined as AGL (Above Ground Level) and high altitude is more like "Flight Levels" in RL where for example 18.000 ft is the same no matter the height of the terrain below you.

For example:  You are flying over water at 420m altitude as reported by your viewer.  As you turn inland, you fly over a security system placed at the water's edge - It will ignore you.  As you continue inland and the terrain rises to 50 meters, would you get warned/ejected (if you stayed) when over a security system placed at ground level (50m), while you are still at a viewer reported 420m altitude? Or does the security system cut off at 400m (absolute) ?

I know this would be easy to test, but I don't know of anybody offhand that is using the system or has a home on ground that is high enough to really play with it.  Maybe someone else has already tried this and can answer

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

Please realize that the only reason my post was done that way was because if you corrected it, it has forum-cred as opposed to someone else saying it.

That being said, I do wonder about how the altitudes actually apply here.  My impression has been that the upper level is defined by the viewer reported height of 2000 meters and that is an absolute.  But the security systems measure from where they are placed.  So it sounds like that would be more of a case of the lower altitudes and defined as AGL (Above Ground Level) and high altitude is more like "Flight Levels" in RL where for example 18.000 ft is the same no matter the height of the terrain below you.

For example:  You are flying over water at 420m altitude as reported by your viewer.  As you turn inland, you fly over a security system placed at the water's edge - It will ignore you.  As you continue inland and the terrain rises to 50 meters, would you get warned/ejected (if you stayed) when over a security system placed at ground level (50m), while you are still at a viewer reported 420m altitude? Or does the security system cut off at 400m (absolute) ?

I know this would be easy to test, but I don't know of anybody offhand that is using the system or has a home on ground that is high enough to really play with it.  Maybe someone else has already tried this and can answer

The way Abnor explained it, regardless of where you placed in at or near ground level, it would only work up to 400m (i.e if you place it at 300m, it would still only work up to 400m).  Then you could also place one at 2000m or higher and that will wrok for 400m above/below its placement location.  

Thus the free-fly zone should always be at least the 400-1600m range, but could be lower/higher depending on if orbs are used.

Edited May 8, 2019 by LittleMe Jewell

[Gryphon Ronas]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

The way Abnor explained it, regardless of where you placed in at or near ground level, it would only work up to 400m (i.e if you place it at 300m, it would still only work up to 400m).  Then you could also place one at 2000m or higher and that will wrok for 400m above/below its placement location.  

Thus the free-fly zone should always be at least the 400-1600m range, but could be lower/higher depending on if orbs are used.

Yes but I have seen that 500m figure stated more than a few times.  If the cutoff is an absolute at 400m then anything above 401m should be safe until the ceiling is reached at 1600m

[Dyna Mole]

7 minutes ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

Please realize that the only reason my post was done that way was because if you corrected it, it has forum-cred as opposed to someone else saying it.

That being said, I do wonder about how the altitudes actually apply here.  My impression has been that the upper level is defined by the viewer reported height of 2000 meters and that is an absolute.  But the security systems measure from where they are placed.  So it sounds like that would be more of a case of the lower altitudes and defined as AGL (Above Ground Level) and high altitude is more like "Flight Levels" in RL where for example 18.000 ft is the same no matter the height of the terrain below you.

Thank you.  I do appreciate that.

Look at this from a scripter's point of view ... mine.  We have two nested requirements.  First, make sure that you can't make the unit operate if it is placed anywhere between 100m and 2000m altitude.  That's easy.  Those are fixed altitudes. Whenever someone turns the unit on or moves it, check to see where it is. If it's between 100m and 2000m, go no farther.  Second, make the unit sense things no further than 400m above or below itself.  Those are relative altitudes.  So, you're right. Someone placing the unit in a houseboat at maybe 25m will be able to detect people up to an altitude of 425m.  A friend in the mountains who places hers at 95m will be able to detect people up to 495m.  That's why I said that  anyone above 500m is in a free-fly zone.  Someone might be safe flying as low as 420m or so along the coast, but you're still wiser in general to stay above 500m.  Or simply fly fast enough to get out of the parcel within 15 seconds.

[Gryphon Ronas]

Thank you @Dyna Mole That is the clearest explanation of it I think we've seen. 🙂

[LittleMe Jewell]

25 minutes ago, Dyna Mole said:

Thank you.  I do appreciate that.

Look at this from a scripter's point of view ... mine.  We have two nested requirements.  First, make sure that you can't make the unit operate if it is placed anywhere between 100m and 2000m altitude.  That's easy.  Those are fixed altitudes. Whenever someone turns the unit on or moves it, check to see where it is. If it's between 100m and 2000m, go no farther.  Second, make the unit sense things no further than 400m above or below itself.  Those are relative altitudes.  So, you're right. Someone placing the unit in a houseboat at maybe 25m will be able to detect people up to an altitude of 425m.  A friend in the mountains who places hers at 95m will be able to detect people up to 495m.  That's why I said that  anyone above 500m is in a free-fly zone.  Someone might be safe flying as low as 420m or so along the coast, but you're still wiser in general to stay above 500m.  Or simply fly fast enough to get out of the parcel within 15 seconds.

Thank you - that definitely clarifies it.

[Vega Firelyte]

6 hours ago, Dyna Mole said:

Thank you.  I do appreciate that.

Look at this from a scripter's point of view ... mine.  We have two nested requirements.  First, make sure that you can't make the unit operate if it is placed anywhere between 100m and 2000m altitude.  That's easy.  Those are fixed altitudes. Whenever someone turns the unit on or moves it, check to see where it is. If it's between 100m and 2000m, go no farther.  Second, make the unit sense things no further than 400m above or below itself.  Those are relative altitudes.  So, you're right. Someone placing the unit in a houseboat at maybe 25m will be able to detect people up to an altitude of 425m.  A friend in the mountains who places hers at 95m will be able to detect people up to 495m.  That's why I said that  anyone above 500m is in a free-fly zone.  Someone might be safe flying as low as 420m or so along the coast, but you're still wiser in general to stay above 500m.  Or simply fly fast enough to get out of the parcel within 15 seconds.

That does help and yes, I was thinking along the lines of the old way of flying, with 150-200 being the normal for some pilots.  As for my speed, I don't go super fast but I'm not slow either.  I keep it fairly steady between 60-75mph, so I cross a 1024sqm lot at a nice pace that falls under the 15 seconds allotted.

[Female Winslet]

I've been quite frustrated with flying lately, so I have not done it in a while aside from test flights. But today I took the plunge. I went down to dogbone air strip. I flew across the Bellesaria from there to Expanse of Alberchill sim (no, not a straight due east course) at a speed of about 80 knots continuously climbing and reaching an altitude of 161 meters at the end. Here's a log of what happened as I flew across. 

[23:30] Now playing: Leann Rimes - How do I live
[23:31] LH - Security System: You are in a restricted area. Please leave within 15.000000 seconds.
[23:31] Now playing: Thuy - All Night Long (feat. Lil Kev)
[23:31] Now playing: Baek A Yeon - Just Because (Feat. JB Of GOT7)
[23:31] Now playing: Jimi Hendrix - The Wind Cries Mary
[23:31] Now playing: Shalamar - A Mix to Remember
[23:31] Lia (female.winslet): cycen

The last entry is me telling it to center the cyclic, which slows me down and eventually puts me into a hover. 

Wow. This short flight was paradise. The one security orb warning I got was far less disruptive because it was not a blue screen popup. I was flying a slow helicopter, so my speed wasn't super high, but I was already out of the parcel before I even noticed the warning. And that warning was even worded less aggressively than many orbs. I daresay I didn't bother anyone the ground and they certainly didn't interfere with me. The worst thing that happened was that I don't quite agree with some people's taste in music. But I imagine we can all survive that.

Compliments and thanks to the lab for making it possible to move around Bellesaria. From the comments from other users, the limited use the new orbs have been receiving according to all reports I'm aware of, and the insatiable demand for new Linden homes, I daresay that the new orbs and the continent are fantastic successes. I urge the Lab to repeat this success on the mainland at large. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Female Winslet

[Alyona Su]

7 hours ago, Female Winslet said:

Wow. This short flight was paradise.

So, Shergood UH-4 Commuter should be good to go, then? I cannot wait to have the chance to do some exploring by air. Unfortunately, they will not replicate these paradigms (covenants and rules) across the mainland and I agree with that. The Mainland is a wide-open sandbox where you can do literally anything you can think of as long as it doesn;t break TOS and I'm okay with that. Though I haven't had the opportunity to explore Bellisseria, by air yet, I did begin circling by boat in a clock-wise over the north side and the biggest impression, next to the utter beauty of it all was HOW FRIGGIN' BIG this place is.

I imagine the continent will be large enough for lots of flying. Excuse me now as my weekly  "nag @Patch Linden about a Bellisseria railroad" alarm just went off...

[Female Winslet]

8 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

So, Shergood UH-4 Commuter should be good to go, then? I cannot wait to have the chance to do some exploring by air.

I can't comment on the Shergood UH-4 Commuter specifically since I do not have one. I was taking the inaugural flight in my newly purchased Shergood S-64 Skycrane. But I imagine as long as it can move at a relatively reasonable speed, it should all be good. It's really neat to see SL from the air. It's a whole new perspective in much the way it is to see the real world from the air.

I know we're not supposed to mention person-to-person disputes, but I think we're allowed to say good things and in that regard, I'd just like to say that I'm consistently amazed by all the detailed amazing work that Kelly Shergood and Co. pour into their helicopters and I'm really glad there is somewhere to go for the majority of SL users who want to be able to move around. It allows me to actually make use of this really neat (and expensive!) purchase and allows others to do the same for whatever their personal equivalent may be, whether it be walking around exploring or some other similarly expensive thing.

[Coffee Pancake]

8 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

I imagine the continent will be large enough for lots of flying. Excuse me now as my weekly  "nag @Patch Linden about a Bellisseria railroad" alarm just went off...

Just not a monorail. Please not another monorail.

[Rachel1206]

6 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Just not a monorail. Please not another monorail.

We want something like Elon Musk "The Boring Highspeed Tunnels" although kind of monorail... 🏃‍♂️🚝

Edited May 10, 2019 by Rachel1206

[MeesterP]

Hello!   Below are some proposals/suggestions/ideas for the Moles regarding the great new sea regions near Bellisseria, as well as the now connected Jeogeot Gulf. I'm not sure whether they are exactly related to this thread, if not please forgive me and perhaps direct me to the right one. Thanks!  ☺️

1)  Why not add a rez area in the northeast corner of Joseon sim (or a nearby sea sim) ?  Sailors or seaplane pilots would need a rez area to rez their vehicle before crossing the beautiful new channel to Bellisseria, or before sailing/flying south to the Jeogeot Gulf. 

Same NE corner rez area could be created in Grand Banks sim, for those starting to fly from the north southwards.

2)  unfortunately, the current terraforming in  Sacrelle  region is not allowing navigation nor land-based activities.  Why not terraform the region as sea sim or land sim (personally, I would vote for sea sim!) ?  Ideally, water depth could be the same as in the contiguous sims.
Same could be done to similar, shallow sims in the Jeogeot Gulf:   Gam , Demien , Chiyok , Dagjin , Subak.  Unfortunately, as they are now, such beautiful sims are hard to use for either sailing or land-based activities/ roleplay; that's a pity, in my modest opinion.

3)  to go the extra mile, a rez area could be created in the northeast corner of some of the sims forming the main channel south of Bellisseria. That would permit an easy re-rez in case of crash of ships/aircraft crossing the channel.  For example, one such rez area could be created every 2 or 3 sims.  The same rez areas could also be made in the new sims connecting the Jeogeot Gulf to the Pyri Funfair sims.

4)  and fourth, thank you for your awesome work!   ☺️ ☺️ ☺️

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by MeesterP

[LittleMe Jewell]

46 minutes ago, MeesterP said:

Hello!   Below are some proposals/suggestions/ideas for the Moles regarding the great new sea regions near Bellisseria, as well as the now connected Jeogeot Gulf. I'm not sure whether they are exactly related to this thread, if not please forgive me and perhaps direct me to the right one. Thanks!  ☺️

......

 

While your suggestions probably have merit, posting the exact same thing in multiple threads is usually seen as spamming.  The other thread where you posted this info is definitely much more appropriate - since this thread is supposed to be about the Security and Privacy issues of the new LL homes.

Since you already posted elsewhere, asking the Moderators to move your post wouldn't make sense, but you could edit this post to remove the double posted info.

[animats]

Quote

[23:31] LH - Security System: You are in a restricted area. Please leave within 15.000000 seconds.

A nice feature for the Linden orb would be to check the velocity of the vehicle. If you'll be out of the parcel within the time limit, which is the usual case for aircraft, don't even issue the warning.

[Coffee Pancake]

I see you're still in the over-engineering phase of life as an SL scripter.

[Leora Jacobus]

Yesterday my Alt tried to give me and all her Family- Group (all Alts of mine) to which the parcel is allready deeded access to the Control Panel. She touched the panel chose "Access" then "Add name" then typed  a login name ... for instance "Leora Jacobus" then "send" ... and so on for each name. When she choses "Access" - "List" in open chat it says "You and leora.jacobus... (all names) ... are authorized to use this control panel now." - so far so good!

But when I appear or any of the family we cannot even open the doors let alone access the panel! What went wrong?

PS: That was yesterday! ...today my "brother" tried and he could open the doors - but not access the panel. When he touches it, no menue appears! But then after some time it says in chat: " Control menu has timed out. Touch control panel again to make any further changes."- so it must have reacted to him. - Leora: the same! doors yes - panel no but answer!

... can all that be due to "maintenance on the Second Life network May 13 - 16" ??

Edited May 13, 2019 by Leora Jacobus

[anthonytorino]

Had an issue with a persons private and very evasive orb when flying at 1000m over the main central area. 

 

The orb one was set to only 3 seconds. The message was "Get the F**K (not bleeped) off my land as*hole) and it interferred with the instruments.

I'm a very direct and no bull person but I nicely messaged her  and stated "That orb is a violation of the covenant and not set within acceptable measure- refer to the cov and use the LH official orb as you caused interference. On check the person purposely set orb at various and prim linked heights as well as invis prims that cause issue on purpose (a mega thin prim and linked prims at normal cruise heights). 

 

I then got direct, she removed them. Most people comply others don't in reality setting one more then a 200m above the parcel is not needed. but ther is not real fine tuning for height and width. 

[Blush Bravin]

6 hours ago, Leora Jacobus said:

Yesterday my Alt tried to give me and all her Family- Group (all Alts of mine) to which the parcel is allready deeded access to the Control Panel. She touched the panel chose "Access" then "Add name" then typed  a login name ... for instance "Leora Jacobus" then "send" ... and so on for each name. When she choses "Access" - "List" in open chat it says "You and leora.jacobus... (all names) ... are authorized to use this control panel now." - so far so good!

But when I appear or any of the family we cannot even open the doors let alone access the panel! What went wrong?

PS: That was yesterday! ...today my "brother" tried and he could open the doors - but not access the panel. When he touches it, no menue appears! But then after some time it says in chat: " Control menu has timed out. Touch control panel again to make any further changes."- so it must have reacted to him. - Leora: the same! doors yes - panel no but answer!

... can all that be due to "maintenance on the Second Life network May 13 - 16" ??

I don't know if this will help but it seems to work for me. I access the panel .. add name .. add the name(s) I wish to add, then I access panel again and choose list .. the finally I access the panel and choose everyone. This allows those that I've listed to access the decorate portion of the panel and then everyone can open doors but only those on the list have access to decorate. Until I selected everyone only the owner of the house could open doors. I'm not sure how to make it work were only those on the list can open the doors.

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 hours ago, Leora Jacobus said:

Yesterday my Alt tried to give me and all her Family- Group (all Alts of mine) to which the parcel is allready deeded access to the Control Panel. She touched the panel chose "Access" then "Add name" then typed  a login name ... for instance "Leora Jacobus" then "send" ... and so on for each name. When she choses "Access" - "List" in open chat it says "You and leora.jacobus... (all names) ... are authorized to use this control panel now." - so far so good!

But when I appear or any of the family we cannot even open the doors let alone access the panel! What went wrong?

PS: That was yesterday! ...today my "brother" tried and he could open the doors - but not access the panel. When he touches it, no menue appears! But then after some time it says in chat: " Control menu has timed out. Touch control panel again to make any further changes."- so it must have reacted to him. - Leora: the same! doors yes - panel no but answer!

... can all that be due to "maintenance on the Second Life network May 13 - 16" ??

 

2 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I don't know if this will help but it seems to work for me. I access the panel .. add name .. add the name(s) I wish to add, then I access panel again and choose list .. the finally I access the panel and choose everyone. This allows those that I've listed to access the decorate portion of the panel and then everyone can open doors but only those on the list have access to decorate. Until I selected everyone only the owner of the house could open doors. I'm not sure how to make it work were only those on the list can open the doors.

And I had better luck if I clicked DONE on the page where you are typing the names and again back one level, I think it was.

 

IMO - setting up the Access for the Control Panels is probably the most finicky and PITA thing that I've had to deal with in the house/houseboat.

[Alyona Su]

20 hours ago, Leora Jacobus said:

Yesterday my Alt tried to give me and all her Family- Group (all Alts of mine) to which the parcel is allready deeded access to the Control Panel. She touched the panel chose "Access" then "Add name" then typed  a login name ... for instance "Leora Jacobus" then "send" ... and so on for each name. When she choses "Access" - "List" in open chat it says "You and leora.jacobus... (all names) ... are authorized to use this control panel now." - so far so good!

But when I appear or any of the family we cannot even open the doors let alone access the panel! What went wrong?

PS: That was yesterday! ...today my "brother" tried and he could open the doors - but not access the panel. When he touches it, no menue appears! But then after some time it says in chat: " Control menu has timed out. Touch control panel again to make any further changes."- so it must have reacted to him. - Leora: the same! doors yes - panel no but answer!

... can all that be due to "maintenance on the Second Life network May 13 - 16" ??

I had this happen when I first got my houseboat. Put in a ticket. Three days after that is when Patch announce we can reset mailboxes and that a fix was in to maintain that access list through house style changes. I suggest first to try to reset the control panel to see if they also can be reset (press and hold for two or more seconds).

If not then put in a ticket. I think after a day I got a response that it was being elevated to higher level support (I paraphrase) - then another day and a half and voila - all fixed. (Though I also found the funniest bug in it that I may describe later, but I don't want to bore people with that now. I mention it because that bug may be the reason they elevated it to "urgent" or whatever that level is (I think it skipped a level and when straight to a Dev or something LOL)

[Wycked Vella]

I been waiting and debating going premium and one of the factors was the new homes i previewed a while back. The ones you could change the house with the mailbox. Are those already out or just the houseboats? Cause everytime i check the premium preview for houses it only shows the old ones.  Anyone answer me when or if they have already been started?