Dorientje Woller Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: Height and I don't think breast size have to do with being a child. Not all women are from the U.S., not all of them are from E.U, It's how you act, what you're wearing, how you're presenting yourself in total, not just looking cute or something as in if your whole aesthetic is a child. Height does not matter as long as you are an adult. it's about setting a baseline of what is being considered a child in SL. If you are running around in a child avatar, but act and talk as an adult, I would be more worried about your intentions then if you would talk and act as a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 4 hours ago, Vanity Fair said: [snip] Attached are pictures of my child avatar on May 2nd, and what she looks like today (I switched from the ToodleeDoo head and body, which will be banned as of June 30th since I have no plans to update them, to the LeLutka Noel head and Senra Jamie body). I quite like the new look! And it will give me the opportunity to use her whenever I blog about Senra Jamie clothing on my blog. It's a win-win! [snip] I have a system child avatar that I never use and a system elderly avatar that I also never use. I like the idea of having avatars that look like me as a child and me as an old woman, but I'd rather have nice mesh versions. If I had plenty of money to spend, I would create a child version of my RL self in SL with a mesh head and body. I would have no need to use it in an Adult region or with Adult animations. I might use it to shop for children's clothing or play at a playground. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 19 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: bolded, underlined...except stuff that is ILLEGAL. Whether the community accepts it has no bearing on anything whatsoever. It wasn't illegal for the past 20 years and no r/l laws have changed to make it now illegal so it is only Linden whim that has changed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinVonVlotho Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said: I agree, for teen avatars this feels almost impossible to police, especially the 17-20 range I think we all know LL don't really care about the 17-20 range. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 20 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: You can easily jump to 42 right away. The thread is still about the same arguments that hit the thread in the first four pages, only for the 10th time. By the time I hit the last page button, I'll still be on the second to last page, because I can't go faster than the speed of light, unless I post.. Watch this!! \o/ *poof* I'm on the last page!! it's almost like magic, but I scienced the hell out of it.. Just to make sure I didn't land in wizard and dragon land like Love did.. hehehe 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said: You don't know this. It's obviously large enough LL changed the entire TOS for it. AND one person engaging in this activity is too much. Well, judged on what goes on on the SL Marketplace and In.World Fashion/Rezzables markets it must be commercially insignificant. Also, Linden Lab did not change the entire ToS, but only a small portion. No other game or virtual environment on the planet which could be compared to SL ever allowed sexualised display of children, btw. For a very good reason. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Ingersoll Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 10 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: I think I will have another peek when page 60 is hit. Most likely still today. Keep posting Sid, you can do this! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: I'm pretty sure that LL investigated and must have found some merit to it or they would not have taken these steps. Wouldn't the "not to be qouted publication' be the trigger? That was aimed at damaging persons, not normal residents. Some flickrs are still not back public again. This doesn't mean there was no ongoing issue with abusers of child avi's inworld that is adressed now. It was already at first that predictions were the inworld rules would change .. the other thing was declared with only a few words ; nothing found. They can do it that way of course, but i think there should be more if you respect your userbase and give them more restrictions ( where i'm not against, but are, friendly said, not solving anything except windowdressing) Edited May 3 by Alwin Alcott 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Bardeen Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 21 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: It's impossible for LL to make that scenario impossible. The bad actors can easily get around restrictions on what kind of skins they can wear. Nothing can stop them from wearing an adult skin or attaching genital attachments or a Mama Allpa HUD. Nothing can stop them from using sex animations in furniture or in a HUD. Nothing can stop them from soliciting someone in an IM or arranging to meet them in a private sim or parcel with Privacy settings turned on. And almost any door lock can be defeated with a cheap pick set off Amazon and/or a plastic milk jug, so why bother doing anything at all? Just make it as easy as possible for predatory criminals to indulge their abhorrent behaviours. Alternatively, you can put as many practical obstacles in their way that potentially some of them will trip up and get a lifetime ban or better yet, prosecution in relevant jurisdictions. Saying you can't stop criminals committing crimes 100% of the time is not an argument. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 16 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Yep - I'm about ready to bow out just for that reason. I'm just going to call it because I haven't for soooooo long 😇 IBTL 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said: Not sure if the Lindens are still reading, but it'd be good to have a worked example of how the modesty layers work. Does it mean a Barbie/Ken style body with a skin with underwear BOMed on? That'd be the most obvious conclusion (and current child avatars are already flat in those areas, that I've seen, so would comply with a new underwear skin). But if they mean something else, they really need to explain that. Make it very clear what creators have to do before the deadline. This. If @Linden Lab do nothing else, guidelines and examples for this are essential. Does the modesty panel have to be full on underwear (or silhouette of), with straps. Can it just be a contrasting block of solid color that masks out the groin. Does this need to extend around to cover the butt. Is the chest included and does this apply differently based on gender presentation. Does this also apply to non human avatars representing an adolescent or does fur on a furry cub count, do the "baby dragons" going to "dragon school" need modesty coverings. It is not sufficient to make a hard and fast "one strike" rule, and only test that rule on a case by case basis should someone catch an abuse report. No one wants to break the rules on purpose. @Keira Linden @Tommy Linden 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 8 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said: I agree, for teen avatars this feels almost impossible to police, especially the 17-20 range, regardless of the solution they implement. I was thinking more for the the 13 and under crowd. It would still be quite easy to just ban if no layers are worn by them, regardless if it's built in or a BoM layer. I don't know what the size of the under 12 population is though I think it is more then I originally thought but the size of the 17-21 population that could come under suspicion, is significant from what I see when out shopping and in clubs. This new policy change will possibly effect quite a few. Even looking at the forum profile pics of some of the child hating naysayers here I notice it would only require a few tweaks to make them much younger looking. A smile instead of a frown, eyebrows flattened a bit, cheeks puffed a little more and voila! Friendlier looking and now open to being reported for being too young! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: it's about setting a baseline of what is being considered a child in SL. If you are running around in a child avatar, but act and talk as an adult, I would be more worried about your intentions then if you would talk and act as a child. What are you talking about? Linden Labs itself said height doesn't have anything to do with age or being a child and just like real life, small breasts doesn't indicate that either. No one said they were running around as a child avatar being and acting like an adult. Edited May 3 by Starberry Passion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: I don't know what the size of the under 12 population is though I think it is more then I originally thought but the size of the 17-21 population that could come under suspicion, is significant from what I see when out shopping and in clubs. This new policy change will possibly effect quite a few. Even looking at the forum profile pics of some of the child hating naysayers here I notice it would only require a few tweaks to make them much younger looking. A smile instead of a frown, eyebrows flattened a bit, cheeks puffed a little more and voila! Friendlier looking and now open to being reported for being too young! There's quite a number, just in the Dino Nuggets/Starries groups alone, that doesn't even take into account other kid groups, but I'm mostly active in Dino Nuggets when in kid form. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Ingersoll Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, Yorkie Bardeen said: Just make it as easy as possible for predatory criminals to indulge their abhorrent behaviours. Alternatively, you can put as many practical obstacles in their way that potentially some of them will trip up and get a lifetime ban or better yet, prosecution in relevant jurisdictions. Saying you can't stop criminals committing crimes 100% of the time is not an argument. There's a contigent here who don't want this. That's why. Im with you, happy to see the company is taking steps. Steps that can be refined over time if need be. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Perhaps someone wants to start a "How old does my avatar look?" post. That would be fun to argue in. Maybe a thread havinging us take our daily avatars and aging them up or down to compare? This one is supposed to be about the change in the TOS. Age should be decided by the parcel owners for all these edge-cases and what-abouts. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 hours ago, Daniel Regenbogen said: Do you put modesty patches on RL kids, too? Hm. Mormon underwear? But I think even Mormons take off their kids's clothes in the appropriate situations. "Mormon underwear" is only for teens and older, not for kids. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 It's nice to see who I agree with. The situation makes for "strange bedfellows", so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 46 minutes ago, Baby Simp said: There are height scanners to auto eject little avatars or avatars that are under what LL deems a child avatar. "What LL deems a child avatar"? From the FAQ Quote Q: Does the height or gender of my avatar define it as a child avatar? A: No. We review many factors from an Abuse Report to come to a final conclusion, and height or gender alone are not grounds for Governance action. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Trihey Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Yorkie Bardeen said: And almost any door lock can be defeated with a cheap pick set off Amazon and/or a plastic milk jug, so why bother doing anything at all? Just make it as easy as possible for predatory criminals to indulge their abhorrent behaviours. Alternatively, you can put as many practical obstacles in their way that potentially some of them will trip up and get a lifetime ban or better yet, prosecution in relevant jurisdictions. Saying you can't stop criminals committing crimes 100% of the time is not an argument. Punishing a group of people for something that MIGHT happen worked well in the past. (It didn't)As it's been pointed out by myself and several other people, this isn't going to effect the bad eggs at all. Edited May 3 by Leslie Trihey 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Does this also apply to non human avatars representing an adolescent or does fur on a furry cub count, do the "baby dragons" going to "dragon school" need modesty coverings. This does indeed raise the specter of, "Will LL mess with my own kinks"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanity Fair Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said: Oh, you have to find that picture now!! \o/ hehehe Sigh...the things I do for you people.... okay, here ya go, Vanity Fair as Octomom (by the way, every single one of these babies is 34 prims!): Edited May 3 by Vanity Fair 6 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Just now, Vanity Fair said: Sigh...the things I do for you people.... okay, here ya go (by the way, every one of these babies is 34 prims!): I think the best part of this picture is that you use the RL classic high-end brand of kitchen appliances, "SMEG". And that some of the babies appear to be eating you. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimbo Mommy Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 They haven't even clearly defined their expectation of modesty. Everyone's is different, as is very obvious by the clothing trends on SL... some clarity on this would be excellent. As far as I'm concerned in general, the crotch is the main issue for coverage on all bodies, and anything beyond that should probably be to the discretion of the user, like chest coverings so kid skins can still be mostly gender-universal. But they haven't necessarily defined their standard of modesty. Especially since most kid bodies use the SLUV, they could just be providing an item mapped to their expected minimum standard so we have a point of reference? Do they want basic sticker type coverings, underwear, shorts? What's the expectation before it also widely ruins existing products that aren't necessarily inappropriate, like some swimsuits? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwine Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 41 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: I have been a teacher for almost 40 years. I know a kid when I see one. And your "20 year old" is a kid. 10-12 years old. No whatever faulty software needed. On the other hand many including me have experienced age checking in real life into our 30s because those with experience checking age have thought we looked half the age we are. Some people look older than they are, some younger. This concern about looks is a bit of a side issue and if anything Linden Labs FAQ addresses this saying appearance alone is not the sole determinant they look at when making decisions. I presume chat records are probably the main thing they look at. I say a side issue because the problem Twinks and TGs face being excluded by landowners for looking like we do in real life as adults has always been a problem, one exacerbated by the focus on this issue, but fortunately not by linden lab's actual rule changes or actions 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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