New Gacha Policy Discussion

[simplemint]

I can’t say I’m surprised, knowing that loot boxes are increasingly being regulated. I can’t say I’m not disappointed either, as someone who enjoys buying from gacha resellers and who dipped her toes into gacha reselling briefly. It was a great way to get items for much cheaper than average retail price and kind of fun too, like searching at a yard sale!

While I can see the need for this policy, the time window seems much too short. My heart goes out to the SL gacha creators and gacha resellers who rely on this for at least some part of their income. I’m curious what kind of effect this is going to have for the economy - like the loss of events like the Arcade and the loss of revenue for gacha resellers. It was a good way for non-mesh creators to make a little Linden. 
 

Beyond the forums, how is LL going to be communicating this large change? Many people don’t read here and so may miss this important message. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by simplemint

[nulshift]

1 hour ago, DeeJay Peapod said:

lmao LL doesnt get paid for gacha machines....they get paid for the mesh and texture uploads and thats where it ends so unless a reseller is putting it on the MP 

They get paid for the purchase of L$ via fees.

They get paid for the land used to host the machine.

They get paid for the MP resales via fees.

They get paid for the selling of L$ via fees.

And lastly, as you said, for the uploads.

[Vanity Fair]

Personally, I am in favour of this change. I never liked playing gacha machines to get the one or two items I wanted out of a collection. Wherever possible, I always purchased the specific items I wanted from gacha resellers. Also, gacha encourages those people with problem gambling habits to spend way more than they should.

However, I have been in discussion today with a gallery owner who sold his statues via gacha, who tells me that this is the only way he can earn enough to cover the cost of tier for his gallery. Right now he feels that he has to shut down his gallery/store and leave SL, which is sad. My opinion is that I would prefer him selling his creations individually, instead of through gacha. He could price them accordingly to meet his rent, charging more for them since you will probably sell fewer statues. In other words, charge more for statues but sell fewer of them per month.

Another thought: we might see a boom in gachas during August. I for one might consider playing the gacha machines at my friend's gallery just to snap up some statues before they are gone forever. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Vanity Fair

[Diamanatrix Nouvelle]

I never post on these threads but this topic is hard not to. There's a lot of people that are like "yay it's about time, and now we get to buy everything."  This will be a product severely missed. My character is gonna be 15 yrs soon. I change my look every week to the point is skin, shape, makeup, accessories. You name it all attachments from all different creators. Im in several blogs and photos and what not. The thing is it's really nice to get the items that most people can't get and turn them into an amazing look. Then when people ask, and u tell them they are rares or ultra rares, sometimes coming in at more than one person is willing to spend your able to keep your individuality which in the past was hard to do....( Memory of everyone looking like face clones ) this goes with decor as well. So many copy looks of lands, houses etc when others work hard, spend the time and money to be unique, to now only be able to say " hah we can buy it too"  your still understanding what your getting in a gacha. Your money isn't being wasted. And a lot of people make that money back or more in reselling. Not giving a defined reason to take them out.....were people whining ( maybe ) was someones atty hubby upset his wife was wasting money and started digging ( could be) it only takes one person to ruin things for others. Sorry to all the creators making memorable limited items, to those starting off in designing and was only able to make their profit off these. And sorry to those who's income could have been reselling. Know that I was a supported in them all, and I really do hope something new comes of this or someone finds that slippery little hole in the system to come up with something more grand.

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Diamanatrix Nouvelle
Added a sentence

[Love Zhaoying]

Thank goodness, those annoying gatchas that clog up the MP will get their due!!

[Eren Padar]

 

Unfortunately LL has a long history of dealing with symptoms rather than the disease... and crippling legitimate merchants because of a few bad ones. 

I have mixed feelings about Gachas.   On the one hand, they're no different than buying a sealed "Grab Bag" in real life... except in most cases we have some idea what might be in the bag.   It's not "gambling".   It's buying a product-- one just doesn't know exactly what the product is.  

Some Gachas are just fine.  They sell a specific item in different forms-- say for example a sports car in different styles (some of them with rare and ultra-rare features).  With such Gachas, people know basically what they're getting... and they get what they pay for.

I have however, seen other Gachas that are absolute rip-offs.  Why would a merchant even DO that?  Do they think angry customers will improve business?

Those Gachas... and such merchants... we could do without. 

The Gacha concept itself can be fun... and a way for customers to get a neat item cheap.   It's the merchants who abuse that concept that give the entire industry a bad name.  But merchants ripping off customers has been happening on SL for a very long time.  That practice is not unique to Gachas. 

So I don't have a cut-and-dried solution.  But I can pretty much guarantee this:   the moment Gachas are banned, we will see something replace it that is just as bad (or worse) but manages to skirt the Gacha rule. 

 

 

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

2 minutes ago, MewRai95 said:

With how things are right now, booster packs themselves can be transferred but the cards themselves are Non transferable Copyable objects due to how the system works as they have to be rezzzed from an object. So you can give boosters to people but once it opened you cannot give the cards out as the boosters start with no objects within its contents. The currency is also non-transferable at the moment. I'm willing to make changes as needed if they do not see it fitting the new policy. 

Obviously my opinions have no bearing on anything, so don't change any permissions just to "comply" with my incoherent musings. I do see a kind of analogy here to breedables, in that there's an inherent uncertainty about what will happen later, perhaps long after obtaining the item. At first glance, that seems different from gambling (or gacha), right? Here the items obtained are uniform and the element of chance only happens when the item is in your possession... but that sorta can't be right because it would be trivial to re-script casinos so the slots dispensed tokens that only later acquire different values by chance.

Probably this was all hashed-out long ago, when regular casinos were banned.

[Summer Deadlight]

I am really second life old! I remember playing Gacha on certain sims back in 2008? 2007? and thinking how catchy and clever they were and then it burst out into main stream affair and now it's ending.  That is like years and years of gacha in our Second Lives.  I remember gambling and casinos too but they closed down and everyone moved forward so this too will reside in memory.  I'm glad we can still sell our gacha items because I have tons of them still that I keep saying I want to sell someday but who knows maybe I'll be stuck with them all forever.  

[Alan Cyr]

30 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

They are only disallowed if the players have to pay money in to them. 

Refinement I think: they are disallowed if someone who does not pay money into it has a different chance of winning than someone who does pay money into it.

[Jinx Lavarock]

I don't get why people think this stuff was harmless. lindens can cost real money and this gacha stuff is especially harmful to those with addictive personalities. Creators have plenty of ways to make lindens that don't rely on predatory practices. Good riddance gacha💞💞💞 I will miss future resells tho. 

[Misser Sweetwater]

1 hour ago, Asadora Summers said:

Legally, I am not sure when it comes to sploders. All I know is that it's a traffic building item that a lot of clubs use.
I wouldn't be butt-hurt if they were the next thing to go. 😁

THey were banned YEARS ago actually

[Apple Pumpkins]

I discontinued my gacha collections and releases some years ago for a number of reasons, one being that the writing has been on the wall with these creeping regulations over loot boxes and games of chance here in the EU for some time. With that being said, it is an abrupt end to what at one time was a hype and buzz like nothing I had felt before as a creator and an avid collector of gacha collections alike. I'm positive that the cornerstones of gacha shopping in regards to events and yardsales can be re-imagined into things even more tantalising and exciting.

My solution to this news was to re-open my exchange programme to anybody who has any of my gacha items so that they can own the copy/modify versions. I think there's no golden answer to this for creators who have existing gacha collections or shoppers who enjoy the gacha experience but we work with what we're given. Gachas became bittersweet to me personally over time but this is a solemn and sad closing of the chapter nonetheless.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Apple Pancake

[Roxy Couturier]

52 minutes ago, PippaScott said:

the voodoo sploder doesnt require cash from anyone but the owner.  its a straight gift.  all it does is divide the linden available between everyone present and signed up.  no players are required to pay in to that one. ergo, no gambling

 

It can just report any alts you may have by virtue of how that system works. There's always a price.

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

My opinion is that I would prefer him selling his creations individually, instead of through gacha. He could price them accordingly to meet his rent, charging more for them since you will probably sell fewer statues.

That seems like the perfect answer for all gatcha merchants.  I honestly don't see the problem.  I haven't purchase much of anything from a gatcha in ages.  I have actually purchased the fat pack on a few when that was an option.  Throwing money at something to get that illusive rare?  How about just selling it at a higher price?  That is, if it's not junk which quite a few are.

[Misser Sweetwater]

1 hour ago, smirkingdevil said:

For those wondering why this is happening, point your blame at the AAA game practice known as "loot boxes."  One example of how bad these practices can be is in Destiny 2.  During one of the events/seasons, players could spend US$ for in-game currency and then purchase a "chance" to own a rare ghost shell.  Some players spent tens of US$ throughout the event/season and never obtained the desired ghost shell.  This was decried as a predatory practice, and for good reason, especially when you throw in the fact that children were actively participating.  That is when people started writing their representatives.

This is a much bigger problem that affects more than Second Life and LL should be applauded for their actions in removing such things.

Actually it was not Destiny 2.. It was "EA StarWars Battlefront 2" And Fifa ultimate teams that started it the ball of controversy rolling sinde those games were build up around milking players for all they were worth and still being full price triple A titles. 

[Arwyn Quandry]

2 minutes ago, Summer Deadlight said:

I am really second life old! I remember playing Gacha on certain sims back in 2008? 2007? and thinking how catchy and clever they were and then it burst out into main stream affair and now it's ending.  That is like years and years of gacha in our Second Lives.  I remember gambling and casinos too but they closed down and everyone moved forward so this too will reside in memory.  I'm glad we can still sell our gacha items because I have tons of them still that I keep saying I want to sell someday but who knows maybe I'll be stuck with them all forever.  

Yes! I remember going to one of the first big reseller events after the Arcade started. Several creators showed up and demanded that they stop because they thought resellers were taking away their profits. They even threatened to AR everyone selling their items there and had to be banned from the sim! Now resellers probably make up half of gatcha sales.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

So glad those things getting 86ed.  They are as bad as loot boxes in MMOs. There were some that didn't give out anything after paying and only said "Sorry, no goodies this time, please try again" or as someone told me --- one played an sound gesture of something like You pay your money, you take your chances.

[DeeJay Peapod]

2 minutes ago, Misser Swee*****er said:

Actually it was not Destiny 2.. It was "EA StarWars Battlefront 2" And Fifa ultimate teams that started it the ball of controversy rolling sinde those games were build up around milking players for all they were worth and still being full price triple A titles. 

BOYCOTT EA!!! and yeah destiny 2 was tame by comparison

Edited August 2, 2021 by DeeJay Peapod

[Derf Fairport]

So glad they are going!  They have been rife in SL for some years now.

Shame so many other games are RNG or pure gacha too.

[rasterscan]

2 hours ago, VicariousSally said:

What about gacha resellers through marketplace? How will this impact our MP as its NOT a chance sell like the gacha machine itself....

Great question. They even have a MP  'Gacha' category

Edited August 2, 2021 by rasterscan

[So Whimsy]

1 minute ago, rasterscan said:

Great question. They even have a MP  'Gacha' category

As has been answered multiple times, included by Patch himself. Gacha reselling is allowed as you know exactly what you pay for, before you pay it. There is zero randomness to it.

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Obviously my opinions have no bearing on anything, so don't change any permissions just to "comply" with my incoherent musings.

Is sarcasm?

[rasterscan]

1 minute ago, So Whimsy said:

As has been answered multiple times, included by Patch himself. Gacha reselling is allowed as you know exactly what you pay for, before you pay it. There is zero randomness to it.

Is that a yes then ?

[DeeJay Peapod]

1 minute ago, Derf Fairport said:

So glad they are going!  They have been rife in SL for some years now.

Shame so many other games are RNG or pure gacha too.

I mean if people enjoy playing them and they arent overly scammy which a good number arent, why should everyone suffer because people have a varying opinions? by this logic they should ban, anything thats fattening, cars, bikes, video games, music....potentially anything that may be harmful to someones dissenting opinion

[Love Zhaoying]

Mebbe, just mebbe..stopping gachas means make room for selling NFT's!