New Gacha Policy Discussion

[smirkingdevil]

For those wondering why this is happening, point your blame at the AAA game practice known as "loot boxes."  One example of how bad these practices can be is in Destiny 2.  During one of the events/seasons, players could spend US$ for in-game currency and then purchase a "chance" to own a rare ghost shell.  Some players spent tens of US$ throughout the event/season and never obtained the desired ghost shell.  This was decried as a predatory practice, and for good reason, especially when you throw in the fact that children were actively participating.  That is when people started writing their representatives.

This is a much bigger problem that affects more than Second Life and LL should be applauded for their actions in removing such things.

[JulsToffy]

Oh man, this has to be the saddest SL news ever  I love gachas, for one it's because it's so affordable (I can keep myself in check) and because it's genuinely fun. I love the trading and I adore events, I love the surprise of getting something from the set, no matter what it is. I guess we have to tell Arcade goodbye now? Unless they rebrand (which I hope they do).

I'm surprised at how many people here have such negative opinions of it. No one is forcing you to play gachas and so so so many creators put out full sets or mod/copy items at events, gachas are mostly event-exclusive, so no one is missing out on anything.

This is really disappointing, but I guess we'll have to make do.

[Anna Nova]

1 minute ago, Teager said:

Just going to add on my agreement with others in this thread who have suggested that one month fore-warning might be too short a turn around time. It will take time for the news to spread to more reclusive creators who may not follow the blog, the forums, or group chats, as well as time spent in redoing box images for each item and potentially perms as well. Stores that have many gachas may sit empty while creators rework their products, which could have a significant effect on creators for whom second life is their primary source of income. 3-6 months might be a kinder time frame for the creators worst affected.

In most jurisdictions, ignorance of the law is never a defence. But ya.  My guess is that some law enforcer said 'the fine will go up by 1000x if you don't stop it pronto',

[sweet2you]

I'm very confused.  I put my real cash in and pull my Lindens out and use my Lindens to pay for my purchases and get my virtual purchase in my virtual inventory and then I go out and do it all over again.  Now I can't put my Lindens ( virtual cash) in to a gatcha (virtual machine) and play until I get my virtual inventory?  Is that about right?

[Jessicatje Artful]

So, after reading all of this i do have a question,

Are we still allowed to use a random gift giver in a club or store ?

Or will this be a violation as well ?

[HoneyBear Lovely]

26 minutes ago, SativaStaryk said:

Where do we draw the line on this? What about random prize givers or lucky chairs? Its the same concept of a gacha. Will everything in fun be banned because some consider it "gambling" This is not skilled gaming, its all luck of the draw. Will we consider SL in its entirety gambling as it costs money to do anything...

How do random prize GIVERS and Lucky Chairs even remotely resemble gachas? You aren't paying into them, and that's what this is about.

[Asadora Summers]

1 minute ago, Adam Spark said:

There are literally thousands of items on the MP, not limited in quantity, that are modifiable. Modify permission is hardly a gacha exclusive thing. Not even close. I buy modify items all the time and change things on them to suit my liking, and I avoid Gachas like the plague.

And when you bought something with copy and mod perms - you can rezz out as many copies as you like! Don't need to be precious about the thing you got that is no copy.
I always thought it was a waste of linden to buy something that is no copy from a gacha.
It's all in the name: Got ya! Thought you were gonna get something you wanted, nope! Here is something that you didn't want instead!

😂😁

[Miu Margetts]

7 minutes ago, Torric Rodas said:

How about a hover text:  Current Prize is:   "whatever"  .. up to the user if they pay 50L for what is shown.

They may have to play umpteen times until the prize they want comes up..  but you could never say it was random, since the resident would know exactly what they were purchasing each time they pay the machine.

just offer the items each at a fair price and stop shaking people down for their lindos

[Kyrah Abattoir]

26 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Decorative clutter is the backbone of playing house in SL.

Before gacha, it just wasn't commercially viable to make random decorative tat.

Doing it poorly is the same as not doing it at all.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Mellorious said:

What, so no fun allowed? This is incredibly dumb and nobody wanted this. Put it back.

A post like this might have been more effective if it hadn't come after several posts by various people saying how much they approved.

[Jessicatje Artful]

Just now, Miu Margetts said:

just offer the items each at a fair price and stop shaking people down for their lindos

Yes that is a good idea, just like the luckychairs

[DeeJay Peapod]

Breedables will now be banned as they violate this policy as well XD

[Piper Kelly]

3 minutes ago, Honey Crisp said:

How do random prize GIVERS and Lucky Chairs even remotely resemble gachas? You aren't paying into them, and that's what this is about.

It is to a point if you have to spend lindens to join the Group to play, so in that sense it become pay to play.

[Eddy Vortex]

50 minutes ago, Miu Margetts said:

I liked the fun toys, but when creators stuff entire outfit collections, broken up by part and colour, it was a bridge too far.

This is what I think slides into the gambling territory. You pay for the slim chance of getting the correct piece to complete an outfit. Not like the gumball machine scenario where you know it's just one item offering different colors and it gives out a random color with each pull.

[Jaiya Cloud]

4 minutes ago, DeeJay Peapod said:

then why arent the claw machines or sticker machines outside of grocery stores and what not regulated as gambling?

Claw machines require skill. Sticker machines have listed what you will get and even most of those are now gone because they are considered gambling if each ball doesn't have the same items.

[Sid Nagy]

Personally I could not care less.
I always try to avoid no copy items like the plague.

It is sad for the people who liked it, but when the laws change, what can LL do?
They will have to comply.

[Aire Xaris]

19 minutes ago, B4rry Bing said:

So like i'm not a gacha person myself, but I know many people that are, and Gacha's have been a MAJOR player when it comes to commerce in SL.  My question however, is that we went through this same process with gambling and casinos.  You then designed the Gaming Regions specifically for this purpose.  Could it then be possible to develop Gacha Regions that you can then still allow the appropriate regions to still access what they know and love, this will also allow for a lot of the known sellers to continue and keep the economy flowing.   I feared for SL when casinos were removed but it is still thriving many years later, however, with the implementation of the gaming regions, I believe it has also helped keep much of SL alive.   Maybe if specifically designed regions were made available for gacha creators, this would allow for the continuation of what is actually good for SL.   Maybe call it Arcade Regions.

There was a little bit more involved than just putting them on specific regions. Games had to be rescripted to become "skill games" and or slots had to become Bumpers. Very talented game scripters lost everything. I don't see the difference between a No Devil game and a Gacha right now, with that train of thinking. if I don't understand the new "regulations" that would cause a sunsetting of the Gacha and I'm assuming it has to do with how the item is purchased, which is "chance". Perhaps it's a matter of Chocolate meeting Peanut butter and someone needs to add a skill aspect to Gatcha_or_ all gaming is on its way out. What is the difference between winning 500 Ls on a 10L No Devil or an expensive rare no copy item if its advertised as such?

[Skell Dagger]

I'm looking forward to being able to buy the 'fatpack' that will comprise an entire outfit in black, rather than 8 necklaces (four pink, one black, two orange, and a yellow), three left earrings (all green, and no right earring), one brown left shoe and two grey right shoes, the pair of pants in that delightful shade of puke that were the only colour I didn't want to get, and none of the 'rare' jackets whatsoever.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, DeeJay Peapod said:

Breedables will now be banned as they violate this policy as well XD

Breedables are loot boxes that you buy, rez, spend more on, and hope for the best.

"Im buying a loot box" is insufficient to get around the gacha ban.

[Pussycat Catnap]

There are a number of brands where I greatly look forward to finally being able to pick what item I am buying.

As for the gatcha system in general - it both led to a lot of entry-skill mesh makers putting in extremely bad mesh (the sort that can crash many GPUs the moment it's encountered) as well as a lot of nice collectables that might not have been seen as viable products otherwise.

- One of those systems that didn't have to be abused, but just as often as not was.

 

For things like hair, skins, and other body parts it was always a severe annoyance. If your avatar has a desired hair color, hair texture, skin tone, tail color, ear color / shape, eye color, etc... any hair gatcha was just something to avoid. There are a LOT of products I just passed over because they were being sold in systems where I did not know if I would get the color I needed.

But that I guess is just my 'personal consumer problem' and I spoke to that merchant with my money by not buying...

As for the policy itself - I am not expert enough in the details to know why it's now seen as something to be banned. For the consumer I think it's better that it's banned, but from a policy point of view I don't know enough to have an opinion as of my typing this.

 

[Adam Spark]

30 minutes ago, SativaStaryk said:

This is not skilled gaming, its all luck of the draw.

Luck of the draw is exactly the problem (and the definition of skill gaming).

[SativaStaryk]

4 minutes ago, Honey Crisp said:

How do random prize GIVERS and Lucky Chairs even remotely resemble gachas? You aren't paying into them, and that's what this is about.

If the lucky chair requires you to join a group and that group costing L's to join then you are paying into them. Random prize givers ill give ya

[Cinos Field]

So I'm not a lawyer but here's some logic and thoughts:

Breedables won't be banned, because the initial purchase is always known and breeding them is free. At least with any of the good ones.

Subscription boxes will have to show previews. Which might actually make me subscribe.

 

 

[Orka Kiyori]

I wonder if this has anything to do with international gambling laws getting stricter.. Its a shame but a welcomed change on my end. I am tired of losing thousands for rolls that are scripted common content. I'd rather just pay 1k-2k for the whole set and just leave it at that. 

[DeeJay Peapod]

there is actually plenty of study to show that most of those claw games are rigged like carnival games, thus it removes the "skill" and replaces it with luck

Edited August 2, 2021 by DeeJay Peapod