New Gacha Policy Discussion

[monykony]

2 hours ago, Aili Panthar said:

I understand LL hands are tied and they are going along with rules and regulations of various countries. I'm not mad at them. But I enjoy gachas. Yes, it can be addictive but it’s not dangerous. It’s not like gambling in real life. I’m not gonna go into debt and take out a loan from the mafia and end up dead when I can’t pay it back over gachas. It’s pixels. You understand when you buy one, you’re gonna get a random item and there's a risk involved that it might not be one you want. It’s not abusive, exploitative, or harming anyone. It's fun in the same way when you would get a random toy from a cereal box.

I also think there’s a huge difference between a small business creator in Second Life selling gachas to other adults, and some huge game corporations selling lootboxes and making millions of dollars from scamming 12 year olds who swiped their mom's credit card.

totally agree, i also feel bad for LL cus as you said is not their fault, but the super-sensitive world we're living right now .-.

[Innula Zenovka]

2 hours ago, Krow Ames said:

The reality is, this change is unneeded

This change is needed because SL may already be breaking Belgian and German law (at least) by hosting gatcha machines, they'll probably be breaking British and Australian law both if they're still hosting them this time next year, and more and more jurisdictions are following suit.

LL have to make this change if they want to avoid danger of prosecution in an increasing number of jurisdictions and they sooner they remove this risk, the better for everyone.

[Alan Cyr]

2 minutes ago, KeviaMinx said:

this is a sad day

I know. But at least the ban on Gachas has made it better.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'm happy to say I was wrong about LL's ability to become skittish in "climate change" as distinct from law, but I will point out that gloating about this now means taking glee in real harm to creators, many of whom make a living in SL. When the gambling law induced an end to chance gambling, only partially mitigated by "games of skill", and the policy to end banks and stock markets and such went down, some people including war veterans and people in impoverished third-world countries lost their livelihoods. I can't be happy about that even though I want LL to abide by the law and enforce its TOS, it's better for the economy ultimately.

 

 

You assume much that isn't in my post. 

I was referring to creators I know that have known this was likely to happen for years yet they did nothing to prepare for it. No one else. They didn't listen. They know who they are and I don't need to say anything. So I haven't and I won't. I'm not cruel like that, much to your chagrin.

[Caprisin]

1 minute ago, Alan Cyr said:

Might get.

It's not guaranteed, therefore you're taking a chance. That's gambling.

True, thanks for catching my oops

But here is the counter point, item is still saleable (vs lootbox game stuff that is not), and the worth it up to the person really. Will my box of figures from the 90s ever become something worth money? Maybe, maybe not .. So with that logic in place any object your taking a chance on buying rather its through a chance system or not is gambling cause you won't know if it has resell value down the road

[Annie Nova]

2 hours ago, meowmeowzer said:

To people who are comparing gachas with gumball machines: this is absolutely NOT the case.

A gumball machine has prizes that are all the same. You give the machine a value, you get the same value back. The rates are equal.

A gacha machine has prizes that are more and less valuable. You are gambling to see if you can multiply the value you spent (by winning a rare, or a desired prize) or not (by winning a dud prize, or a less desirable). The rates are highly stacked against eachother.

Unless EVERY gacha is built the exact same way, with the exact same odds, then it IS gambling. You guys are just too addicted to it to see otherwise.

I do NOT play Gachas but this is how I always perceived them to be like a gumball machine. You put in your quarter and you get something back, you may not get the color you want but you ALWAYS get something back. I am glad they are still allowing the resell of them on MP. I can understand why LL is doing this but I honestly think they should give people more time, some have a HUGE amount of gachas they need to fix. 

[HeatherLaShae]

I used to spend so much money on gacha's, dropping upwards of 20,000L$ at times to try and get a full set. Eventually, I just stopped playing any gacha's because a lot of creators started taking advantage of customers, making huge sets, then making you have to play for every color, etc.. It stopped being fun. I'm on board with ending gacha's, but, now a lot of creators will just turn around and up all their prices for fat-packs of items that would have been gacha's if the new law hadn't happened. They will get their money one way or another. Just wait and see.

[SilenzZzz Mistwalker]

my concerns / questions would be this.

 

1. breedables, creators who make items, where there is a 'chance' at a random traits. that you have to pay to keep alive and so forth in order to get those traits.

2. using a random script to sell a certain type of above mentioned item for a lower price, out of a machine to others. all items the same. but they are no copy items. 

3. LE releases from breedables that have a random gender upon purchase

 

[Alan Cyr]

1 minute ago, Caprisin said:

True, thanks for catching my oops

But here is the counter point, item is still saleable (vs lootbox game stuff that is not), and the worth it up to the person really. Will my box of figures from the 90s ever become something worth money? Maybe, maybe not .. So with that logic in place any object your taking a chance on buying rather its through a chance system or not is gambling cause you won't know if it has resell value down the road

Thing is, you knew exactly the figures you bought way back in the 90s. That makes it OK. With gachas you don't 100% know what you are paying for, That makes it not OK.

[Qtee Melody]

Well that's good, i used to spend a lot of lindens on Gatchas and sometimes still never got the item I wanted. I hope items that would have been Gatchas are sold in stores instead and we can buy the full set. 

[Xavier69 Andretti]

Its my money and my freedom to buy what I want with or without your consent, for those of you complaining about the cost of gacha market value or not then why do you buy it at all? I could care less about your religious believes or moral fiber I simply wouldn't do it if I didn't want it. But as we see big brother is going to control our destiny concerning this.

[Noelle Delaunay]

If people claim that sellers are going to make less money after this change then it's only because they're not forcing people to buy products that they don't want.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Noelle Delaunay

[Deathly Fright]

1 minute ago, SilenzZzz Mistwalker said:

my concerns / questions would be this.

 

1. breedables, creators who make items, where there is a 'chance' at a random traits. that you have to pay to keep alive and so forth in order to get those traits.

2. using a random script to sell a certain type of above mentioned item for a lower price, out of a machine to others. all items the same. but they are no copy items. 

3. LE releases from breedables that have a random gender upon purchase

 

oooh breedables are a good question

[Dorientje Woller]

3 hours ago, Aire Xaris said:

So Kudos to the person that comes out with the Normal Vendor and sells the actual product pictured on vendor face and calls it Gotcha, I guess.

I don't understand yet how this violated gaming, I haven't read that mess since like 2011, 12 maybe but I DID enjoy Gachas and thought it was a pretty cool marketing tool in SL, but like pretty much everything else over the years, Did and use to, seem to be the most used descriptives when it comes to marketplace. 

You don't understand it: follow the flowchart in this document of June 2019 by the Bureau Of Gambling Control: https://www.abc.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Law-Enforcement-Advisory-Illegal-Gambling-Devices-1.pdf

[Qie Niangao]

To all these creators unable to devise a new and better marketing method: Here's your hat, what's your hurry?

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

 

 

What else does the first sentence of the blog post mean?

 

There isn't a law, though. A "regulatory climate" isn't a law, it's a collection of signals made up of a variety of valid and not valid things, which as I've said include the hysterically hypothetical tech press and their counterparts on the forums, a conservative congress person who mooted a draft law that was not even read in committee; a few countries passing actual laws like Japan; a few American states discussing such policies; the US government "eyeing" something is not yet a federal or state law. So if I'm out of date, please cite not only a law passed at the federal level or at a state level, and also supply the jurisprudence from it, i.e. the judges' rulings which, in a common law country like the US, make up the law as it is actually enforced. 

[Alan Cyr]

1 minute ago, Xavier69 Andretti said:

Its my money and my freedom to buy what I want with or without your consent, for those of you complaining about the cost of gacha market value or not then why do you buy it at all? I could care less about your religious believes or moral fiber I simply wouldn't do it if I didn't want it. But as we see big brother is going to control our destiny concerning this.

Complain to your elected representatives. They set the rules. LL has to follow.

[Emilie Muggins]

2 hours ago, Allie Munro said:

OUCH! You just broke the internet...specifically SL. Groups are going crazy!  I think we need a little more information, because if you give demos out, then people will know exactly what they are getting quality wise. You just put 1/2 the events and so many charities out of business. We need some new forms of selling all you scripting gurus, hop to it pretty please, and quick! ❤️

how about customers paying to buy what they want and getting it with reasonable perms ? crazy idea ? 

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, SilenzZzz Mistwalker said:

my concerns / questions would be this.

 

1. breedables, creators who make items, where there is a 'chance' at a random traits. that you have to pay to keep alive and so forth in order to get those traits.

2. using a random script to sell a certain type of above mentioned item for a lower price, out of a machine to others. all items the same. but they are no copy items. 

3. LE releases from breedables that have a random gender upon purchase

 

 

uh oh

Be prepared to be mistaken for my alt. 😆

[SilenzZzz Mistwalker]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

uh oh

Be prepared to be mistaken for my alt. 😆

its ok, lol i said the same thing when i saw your name lol!

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

Just now, SilenzZzz Mistwalker said:

its ok, lol i said the same thing when i saw your name lol!

 

I was here first! 😛🤣

[Caprisin]

Just now, Alan Cyr said:

Thing is, you knew exactly the figures you bought way back in the 90s. That makes it OK. With gachas you don't 100% know what you are paying for, That makes it not OK.

Wrong, did you just pick to read parts of what I said .. i mean I thank you for catching my mistake with the might get thing, but you totally missed the point.

"Gachas are indeed just a quarter machine as we call them mostly here in the states anymore. You get a toy (or in this cause a item) and it could be something of value at one point like any collectable. (which the figures we used to get in the 90s being moved to blind bags now and costing way more)" 

I had my insert on the machine just like the gachas in world has a picture of what you might get. It was a always a chance of my quarter crank if I was going to get a figure I haven't gotten yet or a dupe .. However unlike sl I had no one to give them to or trade with cause I was the only kid into these things. 

Now said figures like I said have been put into blind bags instead of the quarter machines 
 

[ZenCho Balhaus]

Well I for one enjoyed playing gachas, end of the day its a personal choice as to if you played or not,  and yes I sell my extras on MP, but not at the exorbitant prices of some folk..I think LL have their hands tied on this matter. I feel sorry for all the places like Arcade and Epiphany who tailored their events round Gachas

[Prokofy Neva]

18 minutes ago, So Whimsy said:

The law says otherwise.

There isn't a law, though. Note the post says "regulatory climate" which is not a law.

[Rathgrith027]

8 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

This change is needed because SL may already be breaking Belgian and German law (at least) by hosting gatcha machines, they'll probably be breaking British and Australian law both if they're still hosting them this time next year, and more and more jurisdictions are following suit.

LL have to make this change if they want to avoid danger of prosecution in an increasing number of jurisdictions and they sooner they remove this risk, the better for everyone.

This. Exactly this. I know people want to point the finger at LL (Hell, I've done my fair share over the years), but this is something that has to be done. Gacha and lootboxes are already illegal in several jurisdictions, including in the Netherlands. This was going to happen eventually, and sadly there's nothing that Linden Lab can do other than at least provide a early warning before enforcing and slapping early offenders on the wrist.