CaithLynnSayes Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: The media you've chosen is a blog with a religious agenda, so is far less credible than mine. Please... What "sources" have you put forward so far? CNN, MSNBC, Huffpost, The guardian... "media" that have been called out several times over for twisting the truth and outright lying to its viewers/readers. The link i posted, together with the follow up gyazo from the interview with Larry King clearly show that he uses this hand gesture often. You (and the "media") jumping on that because its a disabled person is fairly pathetic and weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: 7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: He was mocking a disabled reporter. No he was not. In this link > https://i.gyazo.com/e56a2ce76a3c0440625915e51b8c96de.mp4 He makes fun of himself using the same gesture. You're seeing what you want to see and what the "media" tells you to see, and you soak it up, like those mushy kid-brains you mentioned earlier. He was making fun of himself there, yes, but he was making fun of the way a disabled reporter moved as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, CaithLynnSayes said: Please https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/ He's a creep, and he's also pushing fascism in this country. Edited July 27, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: He was making fun of himself there, yes, but he was making fun of the way a disabled reporter moved as well. Proving my point, you see what you want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: He's a creep, and he's also pushing fascism in this country. citation needed. Point out where you got that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser Zaks Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: He was mocking a disabled reporter. Did you not read what I said? He has done the whole arm waving thing before. He was not mocking the reporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: If you listen to what the man was saying he said they were apologising for systemic racism, he wasn't apologising for himself or anything he did personally. We should all apologize for systemic racism, as we've benefitted from it and we let things slide. Those racist jokes at the water cooler...we said nothing as we didn't want to create a scene. When they wouldn't let Blacks work at my mom's job she should have jumped up on the table like Sally Field in Norma Rae...lol: Edited July 27, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: We should all apologize for systemic racism, as we've benefitted from it and we let things slide. Those jokes at the water cooler...we said nothing as we didn't want to create a scene. When they wouldn't let Blacks work at my mom's job she should have jumped up on the table like Sally Field in Norma Rae...lol: i should have grown wheels instead of legs so i would not need a car... should should should is not relevant, it never is. That is what i have been trying to say for hours now. Something in your brain is programmed to block that and frankly i've tried and i'm now giving up. Peace out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 I remember my days as a budding activist, on the way to school on the bus, sitting by my best friend. Suddenly she turned around and looked at a poor disheveled girl a few seats back and held her nose as if smelling something noxious, saying "ewwwww....Karen....". I was shocked, frightened, and didn't know what to do at first, but I didn't join in. I wasn't courageous enough at that time to tell the abuser to stop it, but I knew I would never be friends with the person sitting beside me again. What is it that makes some people feel it's okay to dominate others, people who get a kick out of shoving others down so they can feel like they have a leg up? People who believe it's okay for some to be in a group at the bottom and even actively make sure they're somehow below them. People who believe in a kind of Social Darwinism. People who are now the Republican party in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: What is it that makes some people feel it's okay to dominate others, people who get a kick out of shoving others down so they can feel like they have a leg up? People who believe it's okay for some to be in a group at the bottom and even actively make sure they're somehow below them. People who believe in a kind of Social Darwinism. People who are now the Republican party in the US. As an outside observer of americans national sport of politics, I say there is more of that on the Democrats side. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karynmaria Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said: I'm a little surprised @Linden Lab hasn't put this dumpster fire out yet. I am actually glad they haven't. I have learned so much from this thread. Even though I might not agree with everyone, I certainly am getting lots out of it. I can admit that as a white Canadian I am aware of racism, however, I didn't really realize how deep it really goes. And this thread has really helped give me a different perspective on it. I have never been a victim of racism so I can't really even comment on it or even begin to know how it feels to have it said to you or done to you. It seems to me that everyone can agree racism is wrong, it is how we stop and change it that is dividing everyone. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: i should have grown wheels instead of legs so i would not need a car... should should should is not relevant, it never is. That is what i have been trying to say for hours now. Something in your brain is programmed to block that and frankly i've tried and i'm now giving up. Peace out. We've all benefitted, and continue to benefit today, from systemic racism. It's why we in 1st world countries have the wealth we do, while the countries we've colonized are poor and often culturally destroyed. We made our money off their backs or off the land we stole from them, and instituted laws and privileges for ourselves to keep the injustice in place. This continues today, as our society works hard to keep them at the bottom, poorer levels. Some of this abuse is conscious, while others not so much. Edited July 27, 2020 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 39 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said: He does that when making fun of people, he has done that before that interview. The hand movements Trump uses are not those of able bodied people, but rather of people with deformities or spastic muscle conditions. I challenge you to find video of uncompromised human bodies making the sort of motions Trump uses in a context other than mockery. It doesn't matter if the person being mocked has any such disability, or any disability at all. Trump is using the body motions of disabled people to mock others. By pointing out that he does this often, you have painted him with an even broader brush of foul paint than the one episode that made the news. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: As an outside observer of americans national sport of politics You don’t say? Are any of you chuds who are so eager to tell Americans what to do actually Americans? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Just now, Lyssa Greymoon said: You don’t say? Are any of you chuds who are so eager to tell Americans what to do actually Americans? Racism has neither national nor political boundaries. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 15 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: You don’t say? Are any of you chuds who are so eager to tell Americans what to do actually Americans? Racism has neither national nor political boundaries. Good God Arielle, we already went over this. One country is not the same as every other country. What Blacks went through here is not exactly the same as what other POC went through in other countries. You have to study each country extensively to grasp how situations are different or similar for POC in any particular country. Edited July 27, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Good God Arielle, we already went over this. One country is not the same as every other country. What Blacks went through here is not exactly the same as what other POC went through in other countries. You have to study each country extensively to grasp how situations are different or similar for POC in any particular country. Seriously Luna, where do you come up with some of this stuff? Just because I don't contest every utterance that comes from you, does not mean I agree with each. In my decades of participating and facilitating 1000's of various recovery groups, I have never heard anyone share that the pain of being rejected for their color or race was any different depending on their geographical location. In fact, it is because the pain of rejection in general is very much the same for any type of predjudice and discrimination that allows others to empathize with those who feel rejected because they are not the dominant color or race of the area they are in. The pain of American prejudice is simply no different then the pain of the prejudice in any other country. The crux of the issue is the pain, not the geographical location. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 14 hours ago, CaithLynnSayes said: I am mixed race, so you lost the chance to call me racist for what i'm about to say. ... All this hoopla started with George Floyd obviously, so what happened? The most reasonable thing in the world, right? Lets attack police, white people AND black police and call them uncle Tom's, right? That's very civilized, isn't it and not at all racist. Nobody attacked anyone here based on what their skin tone is, right? You are fighting fire with fire, how do you expect a solution to that? ... BLM advocates, i fully understand your issues and frustrations, and i stand with you in finding a solution, but you are going at it the wrong way, you are doing the exact same thing you accuse your opponent from ... Stop being a victim culture, almost a victim cult even. You have no idea how much better you have it in 2020 compared to 200 years ago. Also fun fact, the white people that did oppress black people 200 years ago are no longer alive! So why blame the current generation that bends over backwards by the way, to make things as equal as possible for everyone. Caith, is lots going on in your post. Picking up on the parts I have quoted fighting fire with fire is something americans do. (american in this context meaning those of the USA). Americans as a body are revolutionaries. Not in the sense of collective revolution as found elsewhere. In the sense of individualistic revolutionary exceptionalism about 3 months ago, approx. 70% of USA people didn't think that there was structural racism in the USA, because of the US Constitution and various anti-discrimination laws since the death of George Floyd approx. 70% of US people today think that there is structural racism in the USA in one form or another. Why this sudden reversal? Mostly because the Black Lives Matter movement's existence, encouraged lots of other ordinary people to tell the every day stories of their lives many people have read these stories and have checked for themselves the validity or otherwise of the claims in the stories. And on checking have discovered that what has been related is largely true. While also discovering that some claims are not true - hyerbolicly untrue in some fewer cases. The preponderance however is that the claims are largely true this also fits the revolutionary exceptionalism mindset. Changing your mind quickly and acting on it, is a component of revolutionary exceptionalism and on this basis a significant number of US people have changed their minds in a matter of weeks. This now majority of people when hearing the phrase Black Lives Matter understand this to mean that black lives matter as much as other lives matter. They don't perceive the phrase to mean black lives matter more than all other lives. They see past the hyperbolics, labeling, denunciations, rants and name calling of the maddening crowd, and see the ordinary people whose lives are actually affected negatively by structural racism next. Why do some people of color resist movements like Black Lives Matter? Similarly why do some women resist movements like Me Too? i think that it is mostly because these people do not see themselves as a victim, nor do they want others to see them as a victim either. These people see themselves as highly capable individuals able to forge a path for themselves. And that structural obstacles are able to be overcome by those who are capable. This is the narrative of individualistic revolutionary exceptionalism - to be the best that we can and overcome any obstacles that may confront us to be the best that we can is not a bad thing. Is a good thing. What is bad is when being individually exceptional leads us to believe that obstacles, like structural racism, structural sexism, etc aren't so impossibly difficult to overcome on an individual basis. We being, or believing ourselves to be, a capable person overcome these obstacles in our own lives and we don't see, or in some cases don't accept or even understand why others cannot also that we may overcome them ourselves doesn't mean tho that the structural obstacles are not there. They are, and today a majority of ordinary everyday people in the USA, who's awareness of these obstacles was raised by the Black Lives Matter movement, want these structural obstacles removed a thing. Just recently Fox New's Sean Hannity reported that the Black Lives Matter movement is now today more popular with US people than is the current US President. Why is this? Did approx. 40% of USA people suddenly turn into revolutionaries virtually overnight? Or were they always revolutionaries (as I think USA people are) who did look into the structural obstacles raised and highlighted by the Black Lives Matter movement and did agree that there are indeed obstacles that need to be removed, for their country the USA to move forward fairly into the future my own observation about USA people as a body, is that they have an innate sense of fairness. Is not enough for them the USA people, to have ideal fairness as expressed in the US Constitution. They want fairness to apply in practice also interestingly yet unsurprisingly, politically right-of-center USA peoples' understanding of practical fairness, in the exceptionalism narrative sense, is that by removing unnecessary structural obstacles means that more people can be included and participate in the american success story. Something that the USA people as a body want for themselves and for others 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordyn McGregor Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Mollymews said: Just recently Fox New's Sean Hannity reported that the Black Lives Matter movement is now today more popular with US people than is the current US President. Might be more popular than the president, but it's approval rating is dropping with the public. For this I point to all the arrests that have started (finally) happening and the counter protests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 3 hours ago, karynmaria said: I am actually glad they haven't. I have learned so much from this thread. Even though I might not agree with everyone, I certainly am getting lots out of it. I can admit that as a white Canadian I am aware of racism, however, I didn't really realize how deep it really goes. And this thread has really helped give me a different perspective on it. I have never been a victim of racism so I can't really even comment on it or even begin to know how it feels to have it said to you or done to you. It seems to me that everyone can agree racism is wrong, it is how we stop and change it that is dividing everyone. *waves* Hello. I'm not white yet there are those who are neither black nor white that have tried to post their own thoughts/beliefs/solutions/what have you in this thread only to be shouted down and leave the thread. On top of that it is a political thread which according to posts made by Lindens, isn't really allowed, yet here we are 57 pages later and it is still the same person (not persons) dominating the thread and and trying to silence those who have as much right, if not more, to have their say. Nothing will change as long as things like in the above paragraph keep occurring. There are more than 2 sides to a coin. There are better ways to learn about racism than a forum thread. Like actually listening to those who have to deal with it day after day after year after year. The truth is, no one other than those who do have to deal with every day of their lives, don't really care about the victims. All they really care about is putting it out of sight so that it is out of mind. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Chaser Zaks said: Did you not read what I said? He has done the whole arm waving thing before. He was not mocking the reporter. Yes, he was. He mocks people constantly. He has snide nasty nicknames for senators, congresspeople, hell his opponents running for president are mocked. He acts like a college frat boy rather than the President of a superpower country. Obama has more class in his pinkie than Trump has in his whole body. Edited July 28, 2020 by Drake1 Nightfire 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 6 hours ago, CaithLynnSayes said: Please... Read this article: The idea that black people are wantonly attacking white people in some sort of quiet race war is an untruthful and damaging narrative with a very long history in America. https://www.splcenter.org/20180614/biggest-lie-white-supremacist-propaganda-playbook-unraveling-truth-about-‘black-white-crime On this we agree. The problem is that TV and movies reflect a very different narrative. And because the USA is so socially segregated a LOT of people, whites in particular - tend to have little real life exposure to Blacks. This is actually MORE TRUE among 'liberal northerners' than southerners... As such you get a lot of people who are for 'equality' as long as it doesn't show up in their backyard... A huge number of those "Karen" videos of a white woman calling police... for example... seem to be happening in the cities right around me - in San Francisco and the cities around it. Long considered the 'headquarters' of 'left wing / liberal / racial equality' USA... and yet it's here that we have an unusual number of people who 'freak out' at the site of someone not white... NOT in the so-called "evil bad racist backward thinking dumb South"... where they... surprise... tend to actually know better, and not be as dumb... Even people who 'don't believe what they see on TV' end up getting influenced by it... Especially when we have politicians from Reagan to Clinton using race to scare monger people... A lot of people remember that one of Trump's early racist things was coming out so strong against the 'Central Park 5' even after they were proven innocent... they forget that at the time Trump and the Clintons socialized together and it was Clinton who came up with 'superpredators' which was the angle that got Trump to act stupid in public over race... (Trump had at this point already lost one lawsuit over racism in housing... so he was already on record as a racist, but this one was a whole new level... inspired by his then homeboy Bill)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Mollymews said: next. Why do some people of color resist movements like Black Lives Matter? Similarly why do some women resist movements like Me Too? i think that it is mostly because these people do not see themselves as a victim, nor do they want others to see them as a victim either. These people see themselves as highly capable individuals able to forge a path for themselves. And that structural obstacles are able to be overcome by those who are capable. This is the narrative of individualistic revolutionary exceptionalism - to be the best that we can and overcome any obstacles that may confront us to be the best that we can is not a bad thing. Is a good thing. What is bad is when being individually exceptional leads us to believe that obstacles, like structural racism, structural sexism, etc aren't so impossibly difficult to overcome on an individual basis. We being, or believing ourselves to be, a capable person overcome these obstacles in our own lives and we don't see, or in some cases don't accept or even understand why others cannot also Back when he was a famous celebrity for good reasons... OJ was known for strongly denying he was Black anytime something about Black people came up. Psychologists who have looked into that with regards to him, and for others as well - note a common aspect of having been raised to see blackness as a bad thing all around him, and to see black men as a failure... he wanted to be associated with success. He didn't try to say he was white - but he did change his entire social circle to be white only... and he would say he wasn't Black, he was American. Now we know there are plenty of people who see that as a good thing. But it was self-denial. And it came with an active distancing of himself from other Black people and from anything designed to help under-privileged Blacks. He was apparently genuinely surprised when the White world turned against him so fast after his wife, and there in that dark moment, the only people who rallied behind him were the very people he had scorned - because they knew that, guilty or innocent didn't matter - he wouldn't be judged fairly either way. At this point in time I believe he's figured out his skin tone... but it's a bit too late for him. But this kind of thing is not uncommon. We see it in Ben Carson and Kanye West also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Mollymews said: Just recently Fox New's Sean Hannity reported that the Black Lives Matter movement is now today more popular with US people than is the current US President. Yeah but... that's a pretty low bar to set there these days... 😛 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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