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4 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:
8 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

There is a problem today and it stems from the past. How do you fix it without looking at the past?

Well, by maybe not acting racist towards the ethnic group is being said to be racist towards another ethnic group? There is plenty of that in this threat and that is what i'm hitting on and i see it all over.

There may be some of that in this thread, but most of what I've seen is POC and those who support them requesting that we all, as much as possible, should become aware of any bias which affects how we treat POC.  Can you point to examples where POC and their helpers are being racist?

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On 7/17/2020 at 10:11 PM, Janet Voxel said:

I'm Canadian, but I'll bite.

How about we start with what doesn't work? Things like stop and frisk policies, police union presidents on camera saying "Oh yeah, you want to protest? We won't police!", shooting an unarmed woman during a traffic stop, shooting an unarmed man in his own house eating ice cream, kneeling on a subdued man's neck until he's dead, having a body camera but having it turned off during any kind of encounter.

I think the next steps would be...to stop doing those things. What do you think? Maybe the next step would be actual repercussions for officers that do those things.

I'm genuinely curious as to what people from other countries see on the news. Since there are or were protests all around the world. What are they seeing that you aren't or isn't accessible in google to you?

Canadian? You don't say.  Please have an entire stadium of seats.

 

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There may be some of that in this thread, but most of what I've seen is POC and those who support them requesting that we all, as much as possible, should become aware of any bias which affects how we treat POC.  Can you point to examples where POC and their helpers are being racist?

I would say it was more the white helpers who have been racists, overtly to whites and and more subtly to the ones they are supposedly helping. In my own mind i been thinking of them as the AWW brigade. ie Angry White Women brigade which will undoubtedly land me on the ignore list of some of the more fragile ones.

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2 hours ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

You have no idea how good you have it. And the first thing i'd do is vote for Trump.

Stay 6 feet away from him if you come here to vote....he likes to grab women's p*ssies, he said.   Also, do note that he praises white supremacists who murdered a woman in Charlottesville, but condemns the football players taking a knee to call out racism:

 

 

fine people 2.jpg

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It won't let me double quote, so screenshot it is...

Screenshot_9.thumb.png.b378500f32dc1552cb1e53ffba11a55a.png

Yes we're back to that. Because that is in fact the issue at hand, no matter how hard you wish to deny it.

Did i see anything else? You have got to be joking...

Are you saying "reform police and criminal justice" because you heard someone say that? Please clarify why you personally think it should.

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Just now, CaithLynnSayes said:

It won't let me double quote, so screenshot it is...

Screenshot_9.thumb.png.b378500f32dc1552cb1e53ffba11a55a.png

Yes we're back to that. Because that is in fact the issue at hand, no matter how hard you wish to deny it.

Did i see anything else? You have got to be joking...

Are you saying "reform police and criminal justice" because you heard someone say that? Please clarify why you personally think it should.

That's not the issue at hand. It's the issue you're trying to make it.

I'm serious...did you see anything else?

Now we're back to history, but that's something we should just forget about. What exactly needs to be made clear about that?

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

.....   Also, do note that he praises white supremacists who murdered a woman in Charlottesville, but condemns the football players taking a knee to call out racism:

 

 

 

He did not praise the murderer of the woman in Charlottesville. Murderer, singular. You said supremacists , like a whole group committed the act, so what are you really doing here?

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7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Stay 6 feet away from him if you come here to vote....he likes to grab women's p*ssies, he said.   Also, do note that he praises white supremacists who murdered a woman in Charlottesville, but condemns the football players taking a knee to call out racism:

 

 

fine people 2.jpg

citation needed.

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4 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

That's not the issue at hand. It's the issue you're trying to make it.

I'm serious...did you see anything else?

Now we're back to history, but that's something we should just forget about. What exactly needs to be made clear about that?

it IS the issue at hand, you just don't want to see it. I don't even know what you want at this point. I've asked you what you would do about that history and you're just bouncing the exact same question back to me, which i've answered several times by the way. Focus on TODAY. We're just going in circles at this point. You don't bring anything constructive to the table.

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5 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

Because that is in fact the issue at hand

You are imagining we (POC and their supporters) want awareness of the past so we can somehow punish people in the present because of that past.  This is not true!  We need to know the past (the patterns) because it forms the foundation of so much in the present -- knowing it makes a more complete understanding hence a more complete solution. If you don't know the past you are doomed to repeat it, a person much wiser than myself said.

Do you think we should only be aware of one knee on the neck, one murder, that began all the current crisis?  The murders and violence against POC has been happening for centuries, and people need to know about all of it -- if they would take the time to truly know about it they would understand the anger and frustration causing this current crisis. 

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17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Stay 6 feet away from him if you come here to vote....he likes to grab women's p*ssies, he said.   Also, do note that he praises white supremacists who murdered a woman in Charlottesville, but condemns the football players taking a knee to call out racism:

 

 

fine people 2.jpg

 

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You are imagining we (POC and their supporters) want awareness of the past so we can somehow punish people in the present because of that past.  This is not true!  We need to know the past (the patterns) because it forms the foundation of so much in the present -- knowing it makes a more complete understanding hence a more complete solution. If you don't know the past you are doomed to repeat it, a person much wiser than myself said.

Do you think we should only be aware of one knee on the neck, one murder, that began all the current crisis?  The murders and violence against POC has been happening for centuries, and people need to know about all of it -- if they would take the time to truly know about it they would understand the anger and frustration causing this current crisis. 

Except there is data showing there is less police issues per black crime then there has been police issues per white crime. It shows that the police if anything are softer on Blacks out of fear of backlash of discrimination charges and this unfortunately has resulted in worse inner city policing.

Edited by Arielle Popstar
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3 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

it IS the issue at hand, you just don't want to see it. I don't even know what you want at this point. I've asked you what you would do about that history and you're just bouncing the exact same question back to me, which i've answered several times by the way. Focus on TODAY. We're just going in circles at this point. You don't bring anything constructive to the table.

That's what you're not getting, way to project by the way. There is nothing you can do about history, but the history you seem to be keen on discarding directly affects what is happening today. Do I really need to explain to you how police today are rooted in slave catching? Do I really need to break down the prison system stems back to Jim Crow? Do I really need to breakdown why that needs to be reformed?

Today, there is an injustice both by the police and the justice system. You're asking me to break it down for you, when you claim to have read 50+ but all you see is what you can pick out to attack. You're going in circles, I'm not. 

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Trump said there were very fine people on both sides in the Charlottesville conflict, and called sports players "sons of bitches" for taking a knee to support ending racism.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-colin-kaepernick_n_59c6846be4b0cdc77331a2f0

Edited by Luna Bliss
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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You are imagining we (POC and their supporters) want awareness of the past so we can somehow punish people in the present because of that past.  This is not true!  We need to know the past (the patterns) because it forms the foundation of so much in the present -- knowing it makes a more complete understanding hence a more complete solution. If you don't know the past you are doomed to repeat it, a person much wiser than myself said.

Do you think we should only be aware of one knee on the neck, one murder, that began all the current crisis?  The murders and violence against POC has been happening for centuries, and people need to know about all of it -- if they would take the time to truly know about it they would understand the anger and frustration causing this current crisis. 

Yes, i see that, and i agree with that. Again, this is education. Maybe there lies the problem. I was asking Janet this because i wanted to know if it was about punishing today's generation, or currently alive people of past actions taken by people no longer alive. Sorry if i made that unclear. the reason i went that direction is because i see this happen way too often and was wondering if this was happening now.

I agree with your reasoning Luna. This is education. I sort of agree with your earlier statement that kids minds are like a sponge soaking everything up. But i don't completely agree with that. I have 3 kids, all 3 don't have a racist bone in their bodies because we as parents taught them not to. Not by thread of punishment if they did, but by educating them that every single person has the same rights and is a human being. You say that kids might pick up on things from TV shows or movies and run with it regardless. Maybe i'm naive or maybe its because i'm European, but i just simply don't see it that way. Kids need good education anda good upbringing. they need to know and understand those things from an early age.

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5 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I was asking Janet this because i wanted to know if it was about punishing today's generation, or currently alive people of past actions taken by people no longer alive. Sorry if i made that unclear. the reason i went that direction is because i see this happen way too often and was wondering if this was happening now.

Where do you see this? Where do you see that some want those currently alive to be punished for something they had nothing to do with?

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Where do you see this? Where do you see that some want those currently alive to be punished for something they had nothing to do with?

All through the thread. Every time you were mentioning how blacks were treated 50, 100, 400 years ago it was being used as a justification for some sort of reparations which is in effect a punishment.

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15 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I agree with your reasoning Luna. This is education. I sort of agree with your earlier statement that kids minds are like a sponge soaking everything up. But i don't completely agree with that. I have 3 kids, all 3 don't have a racist bone in their bodies because we as parents taught them not to. Not by thread of punishment if they did, but by educating them that every single person has the same rights and is a human being. You say that kids might pick up on things from TV shows or movies and run with it regardless. Maybe i'm naive or maybe its because i'm European, but i just simply don't see it that way. Kids need good education anda good upbringing. they need to know and understand those things from an early age.

Yes, good parenting is vital. The problem is that so many don't have good parenting. Plus, how could you control, say (if your child was Black), a teacher who expected your child not to learn because they were Black, or even said they did not have the right answer because they were a 'N-word' (as happened according to one woman describing her experience in a TED talk).  Or, a teacher who flat out thought Black children could not succeed and so didn't give them the same amount of attention?  The bias of lowered expectations for Black students has been demonstrated in Social Science tests, and Pussycat related her story of how Black students did not get as much access to counselors as Whites did, and more!

These kinds of experiences can really do a number on kids, on their self-esteem and subsequent ability to function well in school, even if having good parenting. 

You're only seeing your own experience, in your own country.  It's much different here, and the conditions were formed by the more recent experiences of slavery, Jim Crow, and the prison industrial complex. You really can't understand it fully unless you study all this.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Where do you see this? Where do you see that some want those currently alive to be punished for something they had nothing to do with?

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/gray-matters/article/how-to-heal-racism-joy-sewing-column-houston-12510316.php

https://medium.com/@ciarrajones/the-violence-of-white-and-non-black-poc-apologies-d1321c0ccb8e

etc..

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