Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Perhaps so and on the flip side, left wing media simply refuses to print stories that run counter to their agenda or plays very fast loose with the data. To be able to get a good handle on whats really going on out there from our armchairs, one needs to look at both sides and realize that the truth is hopefully somewhere in the middle. So what did you think of what the woman had to say regarding that if BLM is really concerned that Black lives matter, they should be doing more in coming up with solutions of Blacks killing Blacks in such large numbers? Wouldn't you agree that considering in one city, on one weekend, the same amount of Blacks are murdered by other Blacks then all unarmed ones the police killed in a year all over the country? Would you not agree from a rational point of view that the average Black person in an inner city has much more to worry about from that then concern about racism from whites and/or the police as a whole? I agree with your first point -- either extreme is often wrong, or at the very least distorted. To your 2nd point, yes we should all be concerned with black on black crime too. But a big contributor to this problem is the systemic racism in the US which causes Blacks to endure poverty in far greater numbers than Whites -- without jobs and a way to a better life they often turn on each other. It's important to keep in mind that the BLM protests are not just about murders, though a murder sparked them -- they are about an unjust structural system in the US that places Blacks at a disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: 7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: Would be a good analogy if you didn't leave out the other 90% of immigrant white folk who came to america even after the Blacks were set free. Way to ignore Jim crow, voter suppression, red lining, police brutality. There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread. I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: To your 2nd point, yes we should all be concerned with black on black crime too. But a big contributor to this problem is the systemic racism in the US which causes Blacks to endure poverty in far greater numbers than Whites -- without jobs and a way to a better life they often turn on each other. It's important to keep in mind that the BLM protests are not just about murders, though a murder sparked them -- they are about an unjust structural system in the US that places Blacks at a disadvantage. Many of the "Uncle Tom's" out there all point to the same reason for the high percentage of poverty. 73% single parent families! In this day and age, it is next to impossible to be above the poverty line on one single income with several or more children whether white or black. So perhaps before they teach sex education, it should be taught how poverty will be the curse if one starts having sex and children before having a committed partner? Does that sound rational? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread. I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly. They know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Just now, Janet Voxel said: 7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread. I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly. They know.... You remember the only thing we ever disagreed on all those months ago, and I danced around a bit but basically agreed, using my fatigue as an excuse for being so naughty..... But I will make you a believer in the end! lol j/k 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread. I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly. Well with all due respect, you have lots of excuses for why things are the way they are but yet no solutions other than trying to lay the blame on others. Maybe you need to come to see that in the end, you are so close to the situation that you aren't able to see the forest for the trees. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: To your 2nd point, yes we should all be concerned with black on black crime too. But a big contributor to this problem is the systemic racism in the US which causes Blacks to endure poverty in far greater numbers than Whites -- without jobs and a way to a better life they often turn on each other. It's important to keep in mind that the BLM protests are not just about murders, though a murder sparked them -- they are about an unjust structural system in the US that places Blacks at a disadvantage. Many of the "Uncle Tom's" out there all point to the same reason for the high percentage of poverty. 73% single parent families! In this day and age, it is next to impossible to be above the poverty line on one single income with several or more children whether white or black. So perhaps before they teach sex education, it should be taught how poverty will be the curse if one starts having sex and children before having a committed partner? Does that sound rational? Do you just not believe prejudice against POC exists in the US, and so try to come up with any other excuse for the situation Blacks endure here? If we think Blacks are more likely to be criminal or less likely to be competent (as Social Science tests have demonstrated, as well as numerous examples given by POC themselves) doesn't it make sense this would make it more difficult for them to succeed than for Whites? Why is this not a possible explanation for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: You remember the only thing we ever disagreed on all those months ago, and I danced around a bit but basically agreed, using my fatigue as an excuse for being so naughty..... But I will make you a believer in the end! lol j/k 😆 Listen...they know and don't care. They wipe their butts with facts, then say "In my opinion..", say "Look at both sides...we should find some kind of understanding" then respond with extreme garbage and tell you you're being biased, gish-gallop, contradict themselves...I could go on all day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread. I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly. Well with all due respect, you have lots of excuses for why things are the way they are but yet no solutions other than trying to lay the blame on others. Maybe you need to come to see that in the end, you are so close to the situation that you aren't able to see the forest for the trees. I have presented my solution clearly, and numerous times. For all people in the US, take the forking bias test, go on a soul-searching introspection, and adjust your behavior accordingly so that you stop seeing Blacks as criminal and incompetent and yourself as superior to them. Once we see POC as equals we will treat them as equals and afford them all the opportunities they deserve. * Just take this down to your own personal life, if you are interacting with someone you deem to be criminal and/or incompetent, are you very likely to give them anything of yours? Wouldn't you give them less compared to an individual you viewed as competent and moral....a 'good person'? Edited July 29, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: 22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: You remember the only thing we ever disagreed on all those months ago, and I danced around a bit but basically agreed, using my fatigue as an excuse for being so naughty..... But I will make you a believer in the end! lol j/k 😆 Listen...they know and don't care. They wipe their butts with facts, then say "In my opinion..", say "Look at both sides...we should find some kind of understanding" then respond with extreme garbage and tell you you're being biased, gish-gallop, contradict themselves...I could go on all day. Well what is it when someone wants to hold so tightly to their truth that they deny logic & facts, or if it comes they forget it in 2 days? Or if it's super threatening to let go of an established way of viewing the world? I think it's more this dynamic rather than a deliberate manipulation in order to 'own the libs'.......at least with most on the forum (not all by any means). And I honestly think it's something structural in the brain...simply the way it's structured, the way it developed. There have been some tests indicating such. We as liberals have disadvantages in the way our brains have developed too, and so both sides (liberal and conservative) have limitations according to brain structure. Edited July 29, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said: I know, and understand your analogy. I was trying, in my own weird way, to lighten the mood a little. Although nothing could ever convince me to eat brussel sprouts!!! hehehe I have those every day.. At least in the summer.. Summer when it's hot I just lose my appetite for meats in general other than soft boiled eggs or fish like salmon.. I think it's because it's so hot outside and veggies and stuff like that seem like a cooler food.. My immunity must jump like crazy in the summer time with all the berries and greens and other veggies.. Winter I crave meats more, but pretty lean meat like deer and beef from our farm.. I know ours is lean.. If I have bacon it has to be cooked then made into a BLT and put in the fridge.. Something about those when they are cold that just make them right..hehehe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: Well what is it when someone wants to hold so tightly to their truth that they deny logic & facts, or if it comes they forget it in 2 days? I think it's more this dynamic rather than a deliberate manipulation in order to 'own the libs'.......at least with most on the forum (not all by any means). And I honestly think it's something structural in the brain...simply the way it's structured, the way it developed. There have been some tests indicating such. We as liberals have disadvantages in the way our brains have developed too, and so we both have limitations according to brain structure. No, I said it before...its cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. Because someone believes BLM is silly or don't agree with it or "Don't understand", they're going to find sources that confirm that, confirmation bias. No need to look elsewhere, all is right with the world. When confronted with facts and evidence to the contrary, they're just not hearing it, even if they have to change what they originally said to hold on to their original belief, cognitive dissonance. All the other stuff is just gaslighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: 11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Well what is it when someone wants to hold so tightly to their truth that they deny logic & facts, or if it comes they forget it in 2 days? I think it's more this dynamic rather than a deliberate manipulation in order to 'own the libs'.......at least with most on the forum (not all by any means). And I honestly think it's something structural in the brain...simply the way it's structured, the way it developed. There have been some tests indicating such. We as liberals have disadvantages in the way our brains have developed too, and so we both have limitations according to brain structure. No, I said it before...its cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. Because someone believes BLM is silly or don't agree with it or "Don't understand", they're going to find sources that confirm that, confirmation bias. No need to look elsewhere, all is right with the world. When confronted with facts and evidence to the contrary, they're just not hearing it, even if they have to change what they originally said to hold on to their original belief, cognitive dissonance. All the other stuff is just gaslighting. I totally agree regarding the problem being cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. I'm only saying I think our brain structure (and upbringing too) can make us more prone to using the defenses you've cited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: I totally agree regarding the problem being cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. I'm only saying I think our brain structure (and upbringing too) can make us more prone to using the defenses you've cited. Everybody can have cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. What's scary is the internet is becoming a platform to be heard and not to listen. That's what the point of this thread was about: to listen. Since I'm the only black person that posts here, I'm not going to put my experiences out there for these jackwagons and I shouldn't be expected to, it wouldn't change anything anyway, because like I said....they know about all of this already. Saying I'm not American is something they're hiding behind, they have access to everything you or anybody else does, they're just not choosing to receive that information. That's why I said watch this, if you can walk away saying some of the horrifying things that have been said here, then we can have a real discussion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I have presented my solution clearly, and numerous times. For all people in the US, take the forking bias test and adjust your behavior accordingly so that you stop seeing Blacks as criminal and incompetent and yourself as superior to them. Once we see POC as equals we will treat them as equals and afford them all the opportunities they deserve. I have a "bias test" methodology that I have used for quite a few years already, that showed me the prejudices I had and then worked through them to let them go. I continue maintaining with the same for anything new that comes up or was deeply buried. From that I have learned that it is a long process that only starts to make itself known as I am capable of healing from it. And therein is where I see one of the flies in your solution ointment. Recognizing a wrong behavior/attitude is only 50-75% of the solution. Stopping the manifestations of the behaviors and attitudes can take years of therapy for those inclined that way or months for those using a spiritual methodology as each layer is uncovered, recognized and dealt with. All of that is entirely dependent on the willingness that one maintains to keep doing that work. To change society as a whole would take generations and quite honestly, I think It has done so in spite of your (collective) unwillingness to admit it. We are nowhere near what it was like 50, 100, or 200+ years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: Everybody can have cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. What's scary is the internet is becoming a platform to be heard and not to listen. That's what the point of this thread was about: to listen. Since I'm the only black person that posts here, I'm not going to put my experiences out there for these jackwagons and I shouldn't be expected to, it wouldn't change anything anyway, because like I said....they know about all of this already. Saying I'm not American is something they're hiding behind, they have access to everything you or anybody else does, they're just not choosing to receive that information. That's why I said watch this, if you can walk away saying some of the horrifying things that have been said here, then we can have a real discussion: Wishing we had that hug button I think you're right...few people listen anymore on the internet...but I keep posting thinking a few might...might realize the plight of Blacks in the US and have a change of heart. Fortunately, outside the internet, change is happening! So many more understand what we've done to Blacks and feel motivated to do something about it. I hope it lasts, or at the very least we move a few more steps in the right direction just as we did during the Civil Rights era. The arc is long but it heads toward justice, as MLK said. Edited July 29, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gage Wirefly Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: No, I said it before...its cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. Because someone believes BLM is silly or don't agree with it or "Don't understand", they're going to find sources that confirm that, confirmation bias. No need to look elsewhere, all is right with the world. When confronted with facts and evidence to the contrary, they're just not hearing it, even if they have to change what they originally said to hold on to their original belief, cognitive dissonance. All the other stuff is just gaslighting. 'Facts' . And as to the other bit about not being an American-it does matter. Do you live here or have you ever? If not then you really have no understanding of the culture because you've never been immersed in it. It would very heady of myself to claim I know a lot about any culture that I haven't lived in or been a part of directly. And as far as politics go, I have zero interest in what non-Americans think about the U.S. or what goes on here. Clean up your own backyard . Some are only interested in being echo chambers here for each other and sharing 'Facts'. Edited July 29, 2020 by Gage Wirefly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: I have presented my solution clearly, and numerous times. For all people in the US, take the forking bias test and adjust your behavior accordingly so that you stop seeing Blacks as criminal and incompetent and yourself as superior to them. Once we see POC as equals we will treat them as equals and afford them all the opportunities they deserve. I have a "bias test" methodology that I have used for quite a few years already, that showed me the prejudices I had and then worked through them to let them go. I continue maintaining with the same for anything new that comes up or was deeply buried. From that I have learned that it is a long process that only starts to make itself known as I am capable of healing from it. And therein is where I see one of the flies in your solution ointment. Recognizing a wrong behavior/attitude is only 50-75% of the solution. Stopping the manifestations of the behaviors and attitudes can take years of therapy for those inclined that way or months for those using a spiritual methodology as each layer is uncovered, recognized and dealt with. All of that is entirely dependent on the willingness that one maintains to keep doing that work. To change society as a whole would take generations and quite honestly, I think It has done so in spite of your (collective) unwillingness to admit it. We are nowhere near what it was like 50, 100, or 200+ years ago. Nobody has EVER said we haven't changed through the years and that it's not better for Blacks now than it was during the most horrific periods of the past - this is evidence again of your misinterpretation/projection and black & white thinking -- there has been no "unwillingness to admit it"...lol What there is is your unwillingness to actually see what's going on in the US, along with the knowledge you lack in the most basic experiences of Blacks in the US. And yes, it takes time, and hopefully this present period moves us a few steps forward. It's just too bad we have to deal with people like you during the struggle -- people like you only making it harder for those trying to make things better. There is no "fly in my ointment" regarding my solution -- I did not say to ONLY become aware, I said to then adjust behavior accordingly. I am sincerely glad you came out of that place you described you were in years ago, as I love to see anybody change to have a better life, even somebody that annoys me as much as you have. You have healed yourself in many ways it sounds like, with your 12-step endeavors. I challenge you though, to take a look at these 'stinkin-thinkin' points that are a big part of 12-step and therapy programs however, because on these threads dealing with Black prejudice you have been a poster child for them: https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-top-10-types-of-stinkin-thinkin/ Edited July 29, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Just now, Gage Wirefly said: 'Facts' . And as to the other bit about not being an American-it does matter. Do you live here or have you ever? If not then you really have no understanding of the culture because you've never been immersed in it. It would very heady of myself to claim I know a lot about any culture that I haven't lived in or been a part of directly. And as far as politics go, I have zero interest in what non-Americans think about the U.S. or what goes on here. Clean up your own backyard . Cool story, I bet you felt really smug and vindicated when you were writing that. I guess now would be a good time to tell you, I've lived in the US since I was 18 and I'm married to an American. I'm speaking from experience. @Luna Bliss Case in point right here.^ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gage Wirefly Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: Cool story, I bet you felt really smug and vindicated when you were writing that. I guess now would be a good time to tell you, I've lived in the US since I was 18 and I'm married to an American. I'm speaking from experience. @Luna Bliss Case in point right here.^ Well you said you were Canadian and I have seen no mention of you being a citizen of the U.S. I stand corrected . Got anymore adjectives you want to lob at me? Edited July 29, 2020 by Gage Wirefly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said: 'Facts' . And as to the other bit about not being an American-it does matter. Do you live here or have you ever? If not then you really have no understanding of the culture because you've never been immersed in it. It would very heady of myself to claim I know a lot about any culture that I haven't lived in or been a part of directly. And as far as politics go, I have zero interest in what non-Americans think about the U.S. or what goes on here. Clean up your own backyard . Some are only interested in being echo chambers here for each other and sharing 'Facts'. Why have you not shared these deep concerns about the preponderance of non-Americans speaking for America when they are on your side ? I am perplexed... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Gage Wirefly said: Well you said you were Canadian and I have seen no mention of you being a citizen of the U.S. I stand corrected . Got anymore adjectives you want to lob at me? Don't fall on the floor and act hurt now, that's what you get for assuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gage Wirefly Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Just now, Janet Voxel said: Don't fall on the floor and act hurt now, that's what you get for assuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: Cool story, I bet you felt really smug and vindicated when you were writing that. I guess now would be a good time to tell you, I've lived in the US since I was 18 and I'm married to an American. I'm speaking from experience. @Luna Bliss Case in point right here.^ Looking at my DSM-IV. Truly confused...lol. Edited July 29, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Just now, Luna Bliss said: Looking at my DSM-IV. Truly confused...lol. Its been updated they're up to the DSM-V...they might need a DSM-VI when this is all over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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