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13 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:
22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You remember the only thing we ever disagreed on all those months ago, and I danced around a bit but basically agreed, using my fatigue as an excuse for being so naughty.....   But I will make you a believer in the end!   lol   j/k    😆

Listen...they know and don't care. They wipe their butts with facts, then say "In my opinion..", say "Look at both sides...we should find some kind of understanding" then respond with extreme garbage and tell you you're being biased, gish-gallop, contradict themselves...I could go on all day.

Well what is it when someone wants to hold so tightly to their truth that they deny logic & facts, or if it comes they forget it in 2 days?  Or if it's super threatening to let go of an established way of viewing the world? I think it's more this dynamic rather than a deliberate manipulation in order to 'own the libs'.......at least with most on the forum (not all by any means). And I honestly think it's something structural in the brain...simply the way it's structured, the way it developed.  There have been some tests indicating such. We as liberals have disadvantages in the way our brains have developed too, and so both sides (liberal and conservative) have limitations according to brain structure.

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This graphic, which I saw over the road at VVO, distinguishes between the political and the non-political quite well, I think  

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway.... So, anyway, as i mentioned in a couple of other threads, the company I work for gave us a paid day off in

Racism is defined as: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. You can't change the definition to

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3 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I know, and understand your analogy.  I was trying, in my own weird way, to lighten the mood a little.  Although nothing could ever convince me to eat brussel sprouts!!!

hehehe I have those every day.. At least in the summer..

Summer when it's hot I just lose my appetite for meats in general other than soft boiled eggs or fish like salmon..

I think it's because it's so hot outside and veggies and stuff like that seem like a cooler food.. My immunity must jump like crazy in the summer time with all the berries and greens and other veggies..

Winter I crave meats more, but pretty lean meat like deer and beef  from our farm.. I know ours is lean..

If I have bacon it has to be cooked then made into a BLT and put in the fridge.. Something about those when they are cold that just make them right..hehehe

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well what is it when someone wants to hold so tightly to their truth that they deny logic & facts, or if it comes they forget it in 2 days?  I think it's more this dynamic rather than a deliberate manipulation in order to 'own the libs'.......at least with most on the forum (not all by any means). And I honestly think it's something structural in the brain...simply the way it's structured, the way it developed.  There have been some tests indicating such. We as liberals have disadvantages in the way our brains have developed too, and so we both have limitations according to brain structure.

No, I said it before...its cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

Because someone believes BLM is silly or don't agree with it or "Don't understand", they're going to find sources that confirm that, confirmation bias. No need to look elsewhere, all is right with the world. When confronted with facts and evidence to the contrary, they're just not hearing it, even if they have to change what they originally said to hold on to their original belief, cognitive dissonance.

All the other stuff is just gaslighting.

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4 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:
11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well what is it when someone wants to hold so tightly to their truth that they deny logic & facts, or if it comes they forget it in 2 days?  I think it's more this dynamic rather than a deliberate manipulation in order to 'own the libs'.......at least with most on the forum (not all by any means). And I honestly think it's something structural in the brain...simply the way it's structured, the way it developed.  There have been some tests indicating such. We as liberals have disadvantages in the way our brains have developed too, and so we both have limitations according to brain structure.

No, I said it before...its cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

Because someone believes BLM is silly or don't agree with it or "Don't understand", they're going to find sources that confirm that, confirmation bias. No need to look elsewhere, all is right with the world. When confronted with facts and evidence to the contrary, they're just not hearing it, even if they have to change what they originally said to hold on to their original belief, cognitive dissonance.

All the other stuff is just gaslighting.

I totally agree regarding the problem being cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.  I'm only saying I think our brain structure (and upbringing too) can make us more prone to using the defenses you've cited.

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I totally agree regarding the problem being cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.  I'm only saying I think our brain structure (and upbringing too) can make us more prone to using the defenses you've cited.

Everybody can have cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. What's scary is the internet is becoming a platform to be heard and not to listen. That's what the point of this thread was about: to listen. Since I'm the only black person that posts here, I'm not going to put my experiences out there for these jackwagons and I shouldn't be expected to, it wouldn't change anything anyway, because like I said....they know about all of this already. Saying I'm not American is something they're hiding behind, they have access to everything you or anybody else does, they're just not choosing to receive that information.

That's why I said watch this, if you can walk away saying some of the horrifying things that have been said here, then we can have a real discussion: 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I have presented my solution clearly, and numerous times.  For all people in the US, take the forking bias test and adjust your behavior accordingly so that you stop seeing Blacks as criminal and incompetent and yourself as superior to them.  Once we see POC as equals we will treat them as equals and afford them all the opportunities they deserve.

I have a "bias test" methodology that I have used for quite a few years already, that showed me the prejudices I had and then worked through them to let them go. I continue maintaining with the same for anything new that comes up or was deeply buried. From that I have learned that it is a long process that only starts to make itself known as I am capable of healing from it. And therein is where I see one of the flies in your solution ointment. Recognizing a wrong behavior/attitude is only 50-75% of the solution. Stopping the manifestations of the behaviors and attitudes can take years of therapy for those inclined that way or months for those using a spiritual methodology as each layer is uncovered, recognized and dealt with. All of that is entirely dependent on the willingness that one maintains to keep doing that work. To change society as a whole would take generations and quite honestly, I think It has done so in spite of your (collective) unwillingness to admit it. We are nowhere near what it was like 50, 100, or 200+ years ago. 

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8 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Everybody can have cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. What's scary is the internet is becoming a platform to be heard and not to listen. That's what the point of this thread was about: to listen. Since I'm the only black person that posts here, I'm not going to put my experiences out there for these jackwagons and I shouldn't be expected to, it wouldn't change anything anyway, because like I said....they know about all of this already. Saying I'm not American is something they're hiding behind, they have access to everything you or anybody else does, they're just not choosing to receive that information.

That's why I said watch this, if you can walk away saying some of the horrifying things that have been said here, then we can have a real discussion: 

 

 

Wishing we had that hug button    :)

I think you're right...few people listen anymore on the internet...but I keep posting thinking a few might...might realize the plight of Blacks in the US and have a change of heart.   Fortunately, outside the internet, change is happening!  So many more understand what we've done to Blacks and feel motivated to do something about it.  I hope it lasts, or at the very least we move a few more steps in the right direction just as we did during the Civil Rights era.  The arc is long but it heads toward justice, as MLK said.

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34 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

No, I said it before...its cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

Because someone believes BLM is silly or don't agree with it or "Don't understand", they're going to find sources that confirm that, confirmation bias. No need to look elsewhere, all is right with the world. When confronted with facts and evidence to the contrary, they're just not hearing it, even if they have to change what they originally said to hold on to their original belief, cognitive dissonance.

All the other stuff is just gaslighting.

'Facts' .  And as to the other bit about not being an American-it does matter. Do you live here or have you ever? If not then you really have no understanding of the culture because you've never been immersed in it.  It would very heady of myself to claim I know a lot about any culture that I haven't lived in or been a part of directly. And as far as politics go, I have zero interest in what non-Americans think about the U.S. or what goes on here. Clean up your own backyard .

Some are only interested in being echo chambers here for each other and sharing 'Facts'.

Edited by Gage Wirefly
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45 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I have presented my solution clearly, and numerous times.  For all people in the US, take the forking bias test and adjust your behavior accordingly so that you stop seeing Blacks as criminal and incompetent and yourself as superior to them.  Once we see POC as equals we will treat them as equals and afford them all the opportunities they deserve.

I have a "bias test" methodology that I have used for quite a few years already, that showed me the prejudices I had and then worked through them to let them go. I continue maintaining with the same for anything new that comes up or was deeply buried. From that I have learned that it is a long process that only starts to make itself known as I am capable of healing from it. And therein is where I see one of the flies in your solution ointment. Recognizing a wrong behavior/attitude is only 50-75% of the solution. Stopping the manifestations of the behaviors and attitudes can take years of therapy for those inclined that way or months for those using a spiritual methodology as each layer is uncovered, recognized and dealt with. All of that is entirely dependent on the willingness that one maintains to keep doing that work. To change society as a whole would take generations and quite honestly, I think It has done so in spite of your (collective) unwillingness to admit it. We are nowhere near what it was like 50, 100, or 200+ years ago. 

Nobody has EVER said we haven't changed through the years and that it's not better for Blacks now than it was during the most horrific periods of the past - this is evidence again of your misinterpretation/projection and black & white thinking -- there has been no "unwillingness to admit it"...lol    What there is is your unwillingness to actually see what's going on in the US, along with the knowledge you lack in the most basic experiences of Blacks in the US.

And yes, it takes time, and hopefully this present period moves us a few steps forward. It's just too bad we have to deal with people like you during the struggle -- people like you only making it harder for those trying to make things better.  There is no "fly in my ointment" regarding my solution -- I did not say to ONLY become aware, I said to then adjust behavior accordingly.

I am sincerely glad you came out of that place you described you were in years ago, as I love to see anybody change to have a better life, even somebody that annoys me as much as you have.  You have healed yourself in many ways it sounds like, with your 12-step endeavors.  I challenge you though, to take a look at these 'stinkin-thinkin' points that are a big part of 12-step and therapy programs however, because on these threads dealing with Black prejudice you have been a poster child for them:

https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-top-10-types-of-stinkin-thinkin/

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Just now, Gage Wirefly said:

'Facts' .  And as to the other bit about not being an American-it does matter. Do you live here or have you ever? If not then you really have no understanding of the culture because you've never been immersed in it.  It would very heady of myself to claim I know a lot about any culture that I haven't lived in or been a part of directly. And as far as politics go, I have zero interest in what non-Americans think about the U.S. or what goes on here. Clean up your own backyard .

Cool story, I bet you felt really smug and vindicated when you were writing that.

I guess now would be a good time to tell you, I've lived in the US since I was 18 and I'm married to an American. I'm speaking from experience.

@Luna Bliss Case in point right here.^

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2 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Cool story, I bet you felt really smug and vindicated when you were writing that.

I guess now would be a good time to tell you, I've lived in the US since I was 18 and I'm married to an American. I'm speaking from experience.

@Luna Bliss Case in point right here.^

Well you said you were Canadian and I have seen no mention of you being a citizen of the U.S. I stand corrected .

Got anymore adjectives you want to lob at me?

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5 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

'Facts' .  And as to the other bit about not being an American-it does matter. Do you live here or have you ever? If not then you really have no understanding of the culture because you've never been immersed in it.  It would very heady of myself to claim I know a lot about any culture that I haven't lived in or been a part of directly. And as far as politics go, I have zero interest in what non-Americans think about the U.S. or what goes on here. Clean up your own backyard .

Some are only interested in being echo chambers here for each other and sharing 'Facts'.

Why have you not shared these deep concerns about the preponderance of non-Americans speaking for America when they are on your side ?

I am perplexed...

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1 minute ago, Gage Wirefly said:

Well you said you were Canadian and I have seen no mention of you being a citizen of the U.S. I stand corrected .

Got anymore adjectives you want to lob at me?

Don't fall on the floor and act hurt now, that's what you get for assuming.

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10 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Cool story, I bet you felt really smug and vindicated when you were writing that.

I guess now would be a good time to tell you, I've lived in the US since I was 18 and I'm married to an American. I'm speaking from experience.

@Luna Bliss Case in point right here.^

Looking at my DSM-IV.   Truly confused...lol. 

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1 minute ago, Janet Voxel said:

Its been updated they're up to the DSM-V...they might need a DSM-VI when this is all over.

Internet behavior is not always contained within the manual. I supposed I need to start visiting Twitter or something..

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15 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I've lived in the US since I was 18 and I'm married to an American.

You were in Canada and then chose to live in America!   That must have been some guy!

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Internet behavior is not always contained within the manual. I supposed I need to start visiting Twitter or something..

Trust me, its worse on twitter. This is tame compared to that.

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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

You were in Canada and then chose to live in America!   That must have been some guy!

Well, no my father  was African-american. I was born in Canada and have always had dual citizenship. I moved down here because he was dying and I wanted to get to know him better and take care of him. The guy came later!

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2 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I moved down here

Did you notice a difference in how Blacks were treated here?  Or were you too young to really process such things then?  I know slavery ended earlier in Canada than it did here, and so they've had more time to deal with the effects.  And I only read of one Jim Crow type setup, in Nova Scotia, compared to Jim Crow being nationwide here.

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4 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

'Facts' .  And as to the other bit about not being an American-it does matter. Do you live here or have you ever? If not then you really have no understanding of the culture because you've never been immersed in it.  It would very heady of myself to claim I know a lot about any culture that I haven't lived in or been a part of directly. And as far as politics go, I have zero interest in what non-Americans think about the U.S. or what goes on here. Clean up your own backyard .

Some are only interested in being echo chambers here for each other and sharing 'Facts'.

Not quite valid as BLM as an entity has spilled over into Canada as well as many other countries and the demands for reform pretty much the same everywhere.  Those of us who are not American but throw our .02 cents in are every bit as much a part of this forum and thread as there was nowhere in the OP stating that it was only for Americans.

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Did you notice a difference in how Blacks were treated here?  Or were you too young to really process such things then?  I know slavery ended earlier in Canada than it did here, and so they've had more time to deal with the effects.  And I only read of one Jim Crow type setup, in Nova Scotia, compared to Jim Crow being nationwide here.

There's racism there too, it's really hard to explain. I shared how my mother didn't really know how to do my hair when I was starting school and got made fun of, little things like that. An old Quebecois might say something really messed up out loud, but people are more likely to say something about it too, here...people kind of see it and won't say anything. Manitoba and Alberta and Saskatchewan can give red states a run for their money. It's just not quite the same, like here....race really matters, it doesn't matter as much up there.

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There is more prejudice between French and English speaking parts then between whites and blacks in Canada though not entirely non existant as I have it from different sources that there was quite a bit of animosity between bikers and blacks as well as normal racism in prisons.

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