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19 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

it's just that very few people stand up to it here, so there's a weird comfort level with certain things being said

I hope that's true, and I hope what Pussycat just said is right, because I was starting to feel inworld like I'd just prefer nobody open their mouths in case I'd find this whole place turned conservative   :(

In the old days of SL everybody was more progressive it seemed, but could be just who I was hanging around with then, and the world was much smaller.

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https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/This-Portland-journalist-has-been-gassed-and-15428276.php

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On Eddy Binford-Ross's second night reporting on the protests in Portland, Ore., federal officers let off enough tear gas to fill the street in front of the federal courthouse and an entire city park across the street. The smokelike plumes sent her scattering along with the protesters.

"I couldn't see because my eyes were burning," she told The Washington Post. "I couldn't breathe because my throat was burning. I almost threw up because I was coughing so hard."

Like many journalists covering the tense demonstrations, Eddy has faced serious threats: She has been tear-gassed every night, had three flash-bang explosives lobbed in her direction, been shoved against a wall by police, and had a federal officer repeatedly point a gun at her.

But Eddy may be the only front-line reporter regularly risking her safety to write for a high school newspaper.

 

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45 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I highly suspect this is the case with LL as well. The failure to deal with those bad apples quick enough here is less about agreeing with them and more about lack of understanding of the harm they were causing because race-baiting attacks are 'off the radar' for most white people. It doesn't happen to them often, so they don't know what they're seeing when they see it, and such attacks are often veiled as things like 'a reasonable counter point' or 'devil's advocate' or whatever...

I initially wrote more, but I wasn't really talking about LL, they've created an anything goes kind of place and that's the appeal. That's great, but its a double edged sword, you can see that with the weird interracial thing that goes on inworld and people's rush to defend it, it's racist, but its a sexual fantasy, it's just a fantasy...so its ok. People are really big on freedoms, except when it comes to certain things.

The forum largely polices itself and its oddly silent on certain things and I really didn't want to dredge up old incidents. I think you hit the nail on the head here with the 'off the radar' thing, but sometimes I don't think its that simple. I'm talking about how the forum polices itself. Take this thread for example: I took its intent as "I read this book and I learned something...what did you read? Share." It immediately turned into "NO!" and when that didn't work, it turned into "Should this even be here?" then it turned into, "I'll derail it so it won't be here." Same thing with the BLM thread, the intentions were good.....but I had a feeling that it would turn out the way it did. Why did I even have that feeling? It's because I've seen past behaviours that indicated it would turn out that way and it did.

I mean, rationally, I thought (and maybe its the Canadian in me talking) it'd be fine to talk about books or films that would make you more aware. I thought books like Native Son and To Kill a Mockingbird were required reading at least in the US and that maybe it would even branch out into other lesser known films and books like The Watermelon Man or even things that touch on both race and class like Sorry to Bother You. 

Was I expecting too much?

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1 hour ago, Janet Voxel said:

I initially wrote more, but I wasn't really talking about LL, they've created an anything goes kind of place and that's the appeal. That's great, but its a double edged sword, you can see that with the weird interracial thing that goes on inworld and people's rush to defend it, it's racist, but its a sexual fantasy, it's just a fantasy...so its ok. People are really big on freedoms, except when it comes to certain things.

The forum largely polices itself and its oddly silent on certain things and I really didn't want to dredge up old incidents. I think you hit the nail on the head here with the 'off the radar' thing, but sometimes I don't think its that simple. I'm talking about how the forum polices itself. Take this thread for example: I took its intent as "I read this book and I learned something...what did you read? Share." It immediately turned into "NO!" and when that didn't work, it turned into "Should this even be here?" then it turned into, "I'll derail it so it won't be here." Same thing with the BLM thread, the intentions were good.....but I had a feeling that it would turn out the way it did. Why did I even have that feeling? It's because I've seen past behaviours that indicated it would turn out that way and it did.

Was I expecting too much?

Oh yeah...

As a mixed raced person... 'interracial' was the first thing I searched for when I joined SL. I was hoping to find communities of people to talk with.

That was a SHOCK... and yes it's extremely racist...

And at this point in time a lot of what I do in SL is 'adult content'... so my outrage over those venues is not the adult nature, but the racist nature...

On this thread... I will admit that I jumped in after the derail. I've completely forgotten the OP. I need to go back and see what the book was...

Oh and... books being required in the US... nope. Not just that we have a fractured education system where requirements can shift by locality in the extreme... but anything that challenges the 'majoritarian narrative' is almost always NOT read... Even if academics consider it a classic, you can be sure that most people, even those who reference it, haven't actually read it... Until about a year ago I always thought 'To Kill a Mockingbird' was some kind of thriller novel like an Alfred Hitchcock movie... as in, yeah; I've never read it and barely have any idea of it's contents... I hvaven't even heard of the other books you mentioned.

 

People being big on freedoms except when it comes to certain things... it's been noted a lot lately that this whole thing of 'federal agents showing up and secretly carting people away' is EXACTLY what the right-wingers have been fearmongering about for decades... and here it now is... and suddenly they are silent...

Freedom is all well and good unless those 'other people' are given a dose of it...

 

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1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Oh and... books being required in the US... nope. Not just that we have a fractured education system where requirements can shift by locality in the extreme... but anything that challenges the 'majoritarian narrative' is almost always NOT read... Even if academics consider it a classic, you can be sure that most people, even those who reference it, haven't actually read it... Until about a year ago I always thought 'To Kill a Mockingbird' was some kind of thriller novel like an Alfred Hitchcock movie... as in, yeah; I've never read it and barely have any idea of it's contents... I hvaven't even heard of the other books you mentioned.

Watermelon Man is a movie from the late 60's or early 70's, its in the vein of Black Like me, but its a comedy. It's probably on Youtube.

https://youtu.be/5lkW0mTByNo

Sorry to Bother You is another movie, it touches on Race and seems like a comedy, but then it goes into a pretty serious social commentary that seriously slaps you in the face. That's maybe a couple years old, I saw it on Hulu.

Edited by Janet Voxel
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19 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

I mean, rationally, I thought (and maybe its the Canadian in me talking) it'd be fine to talk about books or films that would make you more aware. I thought books like Native Son and To Kill a Mockingbird were required reading at least in the US and that maybe it would even branch out into other lesser known films and books like The Watermelon Man or even things that touch on both race and class like Sorry to Bother You. 

Was I expecting too much?

Doncha know, certain people feel they popped out of their mother's womb knowing everything. To suggest they develop awareness is insulting...

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19 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

Watermelon Man is a movie from the late 60's or early 70's, its in the vein of Black Like me, but its a comedy. It's probably on Youtube.

https://youtu.be/5lkW0mTByNo

Sorry to Bother You is another movie, it touches on Race and seems like a comedy, but then it goes into a pretty serious social commentary that seriously slaps you in the face. That's maybe a couple years old, I saw it on Hulu.

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Doncha know, certain people feel they popped out of their mother's womb knowing everything. To suggest they develop awareness is insulting...

It's not that we choose to not be exposed to all of these things, it's that the opportunity is not there.

This material was not exposed to me at all growing up. What I know comes from hard times on the streets, and then my own education after high school and in college and beyond. But the core of my 'woke'-ness isn't from intellectuals and writers... it's from growing up always carrying a knife on me and having a half dozen arrests before I was an adult. For the first few years of my life it was just something formed from frustration that lacked context.

'Classics of Literature' is not a thing in an education system that isn't designed to educate you... so I didn't get much of that until I was older and either on my own or in college.

For most people, the context never arrives.

White people can go their whole lives with no exposure to any of this. Their starting to lose those teflon sunglasses, and that's why you're seeing all this public conflict. Way too many folks want to put their blinders back on. But some want to do something about what they see - some want to make it better, some want to make it worse...

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Doncha know, certain people feel they popped out of their mother's womb knowing everything. To suggest they develop awareness is insulting...

It's not that we choose to not be exposed to all of these things, it's that the opportunity is not there.

This material was not exposed to me at all growing up.

Totally agree...our education is so deficient in these matters for most people. Personally I was lucky to be in a Women's Studies program that provided education on the oppressive nature of all stereotypes, and in my Social work classes we studied problems specific to all disadvantaged groups.

However, I was referring specifically to the ample supply of exposure across three threads here on the forum, which should have been enough for those participating in these threads to understand some of the issues. From the getgo of this particular thread though, with the title of becoming 'woke' and the mentioning of a book many are using to educate White society, the book was laughed at by an ongoing participant of these threads, and the author accused of not doing any good whatsoever, and of only trying to make a buck. It is these people, who refuse to acknowledge any white privilege they or other people may harbor after seeing extensive proof that we all harbor bias, that I addressed that comment to.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Totally agree...our education is so deficient in these matters for most people. Personally I was lucky to be in a Women's Studies program that provided education on the oppressive nature of all stereotypes, and in my Social work classes we studied problems specific to all disadvantaged groups.

However, I was referring specifically to the ample supply of exposure across three threads here on the forum, which should have been enough for those participating in these threads to understand some of the issues. From the getgo of this particular thread though, with the title of becoming 'woke' and the mentioning of a book many are using to educate White society, the book was laughed at by an ongoing participant of these threads, and the author accused of not doing any good whatsoever, and of only trying to make a buck. It is these people, who refuse to acknowledge any white privilege they or other people may harbor after seeing extensive proof that we all harbor bias, that I addressed that comment to.

I moved a LOT when I grew up, so I was exposed to a variety of education models.

At one point I had the same math textbook for 3 years - through a school for white, a catholic school, and then one for non-whites...

(In minority communities if you have any connections you put your kids in Catholic schools to avoid the public schools - even if you're not Catholic, but this is still an option very few are able to access. My mother got me into one for 3rd grade, then we moved).

My high school in a 'very liberal city' basically set up 2 schools on one campus. All the black kids had one set of teachers, all the white kids had another set of teachers. Hispanics and Asians got tossed around randomly in whatever lower track class they could put them in unless their parents had clout (when Asian parents finally started pushing back, in the 90s, Americans created the 'Tiger Mom' stereotype which at its heart is just a mother that is tired of seeing her 5th generation American child tossed into 'remedial english' again). By this point an attempt by a white teacher to have me tossed out had caused a test to find my genius IQ, and that put me as one of the few non-white kids let into the white track (AP / Gifted / Advanced). They still managed to give me a difference school Councillor so I was never even asked about applying to colleges, nor told of scholarships or anything. I know some black kids DID get that advice if they had a black Councillor, but mine just viewed me as an 'ethnic problem on her calendar' - I think I met her twice in 4 years. I learned later that other students met them regularly...
 

I faced off against repeated attempts to put me back in my place... and the education I got was very sub-standard. My real education happened in college which I did in my 30s with the GI Bill.

 

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12 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

Welcome back!

Thank you, but I'm not actually back. I just look in every once in a while to see if anything has gotten better. The proliferation of racists popping up here, and in other threads, was enough to take away any enjoyment I got from participating in these forums. Too many people that I had previously respected, if not necessarily liked, showing themselves to be beyond redemption, and the constant head-splitting attempts to help them see that their extraordinarily white European perspectives aren't the actual reality for the majority of people on the planet was making 2020 uglier than and more difficult than it already was for me.

I'm giving my energy to things in the real world when it comes to tackling racism, and returned to blogging to say the things I feel like I need to say in a platform where I don't have to hold back. 

On the positive side, Taylor Swift surprise-dropped her best album to date last night so I've got that going on.

Keep fighting the good fight - I'll be battling on another front. ✊🏽

Edited by Beth Macbain
Typo that changed the meaning of the last sentence.
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10 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Thank you, but I'm not actually back. I just look in every once in a while to see if anything has gotten better. The proliferation of racists popping up here, and in other threads, was enough to take away any enjoyment I got from participating in these forums. Too many people that I had previously respected, if not necessarily liked, showing themselves to be beyond redemption, and the constant head-splitting attempts to help them see that their extraordinarily white European perspectives aren't the actual reality for the majority of people on the planet was making 2020 uglier than and more difficult than it already was for me.

I'm giving my energy to things in the real world when it comes to tackling racism, and returned to blogging to say the things I feel like I need to say in a platform where I don't have to hold back. 

On the positive side, Taylor Swift surprise-dropped her best album to date last night so I've got that going on.

Keep fighting the good fight - I'd be battling on another front. ✊🏽

I felt that way too for a minute, but I realized we're living a really angry, ugly moment in history and if we don't say anything...who will?

Plus haters gon' hate....

But Taylor Swift Was Just Like, "Haters Gonna Hate" | The 25 ...

Edited by Janet Voxel
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13 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I felt that way too for a minute, but I realized we're living a really angry, ugly moment in history and if we don't say anything...who will?

The racists not only know they're racists, but are proud of it as well. Look at that other thread that's currently sitting at the top full of white Europeans who have somehow come to the asinine conclusion that they have any business telling another person who they can, or more accurately, cannot be. 328.2 million other persons, really. 

My attention needs to be on my city now anyway. Black militants and white nationalists have chosen Louisville as their armed battleground tomorrow. Either they are all going to show up and it's going to be a bloodbath, or none of them will actually show up, and nothing will happen - I don't hold out any hope for a peaceful protest if both parties show up separated only by a single street and an inept police department, and I live and work far too close to that assigned battleground for comfort. 😔

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2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

The racists not only know they're racists, but are proud of it as well. Look at that other thread that's currently sitting at the top full of white Europeans who have somehow come to the asinine conclusion that they have any business telling another person who they can, or more accurately, cannot be. 328.2 million other persons, really. 

My attention needs to be on my city now anyway. Black militants and white nationalists have chosen Louisville as their armed battleground tomorrow. Either they are all going to show up and it's going to be a bloodbath, or none of them will actually show up, and nothing will happen - I don't hold out any hope for a peaceful protest if both parties show up separated only by a single street and an inept police department, and I live and work far too close to that assigned battleground for comfort. 😔

Omg even the Beth agrees that the other thread is full or oddballs..

The world is truly ending!!

:P~~

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1 minute ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Her statement was in reference to people like you.. lol..

No I think Beth knows you well petal, enjoy being the forum joke we all enjoy you being it 

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2 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

No I think Beth knows you well petal, enjoy being the forum joke we all enjoy you being it 

Sorry, dude... Drakon was correct. I was referring to people like you. She and I have butted heads but I respect her and her intelligence, and 98% of her beliefs align with mine.

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1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

Sorry, dude... Drakon was correct. I was referring to people like you. She and I have butted heads but I respect her and her intelligence, and 98% of her beliefs align with mine.

OmG Beth agreed with me??!! the world must be ending! j/k Beth. Thanks, that honestly shocked me a little bit. Ok.. more than a little bit..

Yes we butt heads but its because we can be equally passionate about things at times.

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4 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

shrugs only stating the truth sorry if it hurt

Kanry...what's up with you?

I remembered when you shared with the forum you had coronavirus and I was glad to see you back.  

But, what's up with you?   I feel like you are starting stuff over nothing.  We have enough real things to deal with in today's world and not just coronavirus; it's a lot of things, some talked about in this thread and some not talked about yet and it's very stressful times.   There is real anger that is justified from POC.  I am angry too.  I am very angry at my country for some of these issues and things they have done.  

EDIT:  And, p.s. we'd like to keep this thread if possible because there are things some of us may not know yet and are learning about.  I feel like my government lied to me and it's not right, so I'm angry and I'm angry at their lies and how they treated POC.  It's atrocious.  

 

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