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2 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Yeah, but the article you posted is basically saying "She's an author and she made money off of speaking engagements. The shame!" and the point there was you sourced a extreme right wing news site as your back up...as far as your opinion if that's where you're getting your news from...lol...well....

You can only attack the source but its factual, in either case. The woman is a fraud and she is profiting from her b.s.  and using people for money in the process. It's shameful.

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This graphic, which I saw over the road at VVO, distinguishes between the political and the non-political quite well, I think  

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway.... So, anyway, as i mentioned in a couple of other threads, the company I work for gave us a paid day off in

Racism is defined as: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. You can't change the definition to

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2 hours ago, Gage Wirefly said:

As far as DiAngelo, she is nothing more than a grifter peddling her wares .  She is one of those people who profits from the perpetually aggrieved , in the same vein of Tim Wise. You remove the money from these talking heads and they would disappear because there is no way they are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. It's all about money.

https://freebeacon.com/culture/the-wages-of-woke-2/

You strike me as a more logical person than many. So please examine: all people in the so-called 'helping professions', educators, and authors need to earn a living just like everyone else, and so they are generally paid for their time. Being paid for their job however does not equate to being a grifter or not caring about whatever population they seek to assist or educate. I totally agree that Dr. Robin DiAngelo recently hit the jackpot and is raking in the dough -- she was lucky to have written this book at one of those times when racial issues exploded in the US again. This does not automatically translate to her only caring about money and not caring about her subject however --  I'd need more evidence to judge her in such a manner. Also, I'd be even more impressed with her, as the lefty that I am, if she donated a hefty amount of her earnings to worthy causes (and if I recall, I think she does).

Anyhow, Dr. DiAngelo didn't begin the discourse on 'white privilege'. The underlying concepts date back at least as far as to the work of a Black man named W.E.B Du Bois in the 1930s. A woman named Peggy McIntosh then wrote an essay in the 1980's that made 'white privilege' gain popularity in social discourse.

Although it was academic and feminist Peggy McIntosh's essay in the 1980's that made 'white privilege' gain popularity in society in more modern times, it's interesting (and a bit sad really) that it took a white person to gain notoriety for a concept that many prominent black academics and intellectuals had been identifying and 'unpacking' for decades already!

More info about 'white privilege':
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2016/10/13/10-things-you-should-know-about-white-privilege
 

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Just now, Gage Wirefly said:

You can only attack the source but its factual, in either case. The woman is a fraud and she is profiting from her b.s.  and using people for money in the process. It's shameful.

The fact that she's an author and made money off the book and related speaking engagements? Those are the only facts on there!

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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

You strike me as a more logical person than many. So please examine: all people in the so-called 'helping professions', educators, and authors need to earn a living just like everyone else, and so they are generally paid for their time. Being paid for their job however does not equate to being a grifter or not caring about whatever population they seek to assist or educate. I totally agree that Dr. Robin DiAngelo recently hit the jackpot and is raking in the dough -- she was lucky to have written this book at one of those times when racial issues exploded in the US again. This not automatically translate to her only caring about money and not caring about her subject.  I'd need more evidence to judge her in such a manner. Also, I'd be even more impressed with her, as the lefty that I am, if she donated a hefty amount of her earnings to worthy causes (and if I recall, I think she does).

Anyhow, Dr. DiAngelo didn't begin the discourse on 'white privilege'. The underlying concepts date back at least as far as to the work of a Black man named W.E.B Du Bois in the 1930s. A woman named Peggy McIntosh then wrote an essay in the 1980's that made 'white privilege' gain popularity in social discourse.

Although it was academic and feminist Peggy McIntosh's essay in the 1980s that made 'white privilege' gain popularity in society in more modern times, it's interesting (and a bit sad really) that it took a white person to gain notoriety for a concept that many prominent black academics and intellectuals had been identifying and 'unpacking' for decades already!

More info about 'white privilege':
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2016/10/13/10-things-you-should-know-about-white-privilege
 

Deflection . I said what I said and she is a fraud . Anyone peddling white privilege is a fraud, its a myth.

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15 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

Deflection . I said what I said and she is a fraud . Anyone peddling white privilege is a fraud, its a myth.

Earlier you said she's a grifter.  Anyhow, we don't call people who believe certain things or write books on a subject we disagree with 'frauds' -- we simply say they are wrong about their subject if we believe it to be so.  Fraud implies a deliberate deceit, but I can tell from reading her writings and watching her videos that she actually cares about her topic.

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6 hours ago, Jordan Whitt said:
13 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Nobody is ever totally 'woke' -- I learn something new every day. Tonight I learned more about the inspiring Harriet Tubman and how she helped free slaves on the underground railroad during the period before the Civil War. Social injustice is a scourge upon the earth, and if not fought it can ruin lives or vastly limit potential for those oppressed.  We all have to fight to be free, and if we can it's good help others who are having trouble too.

* I recommend the movie, even though it had the Black bounty hunter. Fortunately he wasn't central as some reviews claimed, and it showed the real conditions of the period where White slavers were being the biggest villains.

I disagree with you on so many points here, including how white people helped free slaves and worked the underground railroad too - in fact, it probably wouldn't have succeeded without them, but the only thing I will address is the part where I bolded your words.

Whilst I agree that slavery was a hideous part of history, I am throwing it out there that it is unfair to call people villians who in their point in history were just people living their lives the way the world was back then.  Maybe not always in the nicest way possible, but it's just how life goes.

Earlier in this thread there was a discussion about the movie Harriet and stereotypes in the media, as this movie has been quite controversial here in the US.
So my use of the word 'villain' related more to this first definition of 'villain':

VILLAIN
 1.  (in a film, novel, or play) a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot. A character in a story or play who opposes the hero. 

 2.  The person or thing responsible for specified trouble, harm, or damage.   A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.

Much to my surprise (and a definite 'woke' experience for me), Pussycat related that still, in this day and age, most crime dramas portray Blacks as the criminal or villain of the show waaaay more than they portray Whites as the criminal or villain. And so many have been upset that Hollywood would even portray a slave catcher as Black when nearly all of the slavers and slave catchers were actually White, making Blacks the villains of the story yet again even when this movie is about the horrors of slavery and the violence perpetrated against Blacks by Whites!

This is important to analyze and remedy if possible because the media affects how we view reality, and when we think Blacks are more likely criminals we tend to treat them unfairly.

But you bring up an interesting subject -- how should we evaluate those in the past for behaviors we find deplorable today -- what culpability should they bear in our present minds, if any? Are they actually 'villains'?  I might discuss that in a further post if I have time...

But in the meantime...don't go messin' with Harriet!   :)

 

Harriet 2.jpg

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2 hours ago, Gage Wirefly said:
13 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

You do realize that's from the alt-right Breitbart News?

Conservative yes, alt-right no. They are not the same things. False equivalences.

You may want to read this -- it exposes Breitbart News for the alt-right organization they are:

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/06/breitbart-exposé-confirms-far-right-news-site-platform-white-nationalist-alt-right

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3 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:
12 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

 Anyone peddling white privilege is a fraud, its a myth.

Are you familiar with the Monopoly analogy?

I'm not...please tell me about it...

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3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:
5 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Breitbart is a collection of fairy tales for fascists. But whatever it takes to avoid the “alt-left”, whatever that is, I guess.

Is the video of that woman a fairy tale? That is the only thing of importance here. Don't get all hung up on where it was posted.

Most likely Breitbart News searched until they found a Black woman who hates BLM and then let her loose at a protest. This is not the way news should operate.  Don't you think it strange that Breitbart would be out filming all the protests, hoping they would catch someone who does not believe prejudice against Blacks exists and is out screaming like a banshee at protesters?

And of course there are Blacks who do not believe prejudice exists in the US, but they are waaay in the minority.  And why would finding one or a few Blacks who say prejudice does not exist negate all the others who say it does?   I can find one person with an opposing view on any subject -- that does not prove the opposing view is wrong. Do you see the error in your logic?

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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not...please tell me about it...

America is the game Monopoly. When you play the game everybody starts with the same amount of money, in the same spot, etc so more or less its a fair game. From there, its a game of strategy and chance...life right? Now suppose you introduce a player (blacks) after the game is well underway(slavery, Jim Crow, red lining, voter suppression, mass incarceration), all the other players have bought up most of the property (generational wealth) and utilities give them $50(civil rights movement). Not a fair game, right?

That's the Monopoly analogy.

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1 minute ago, Janet Voxel said:
16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not...please tell me about it...

America is the game Monopoly. When you play the game everybody starts with the same amount of money, in the same spot, etc so more or less its a fair game. From there, its a game of strategy and chance...life right? Now suppose you introduce a player (blacks) after the game is well underway(slavery, Jim Crow, red lining, voter suppression, mass incarceration), all the other players have bought up most of the property (generational wealth) and utilities give them $50(civil rights movement). Not a fair game, right?

That's the Monopoly analogy.

There could not be a better analogy for 'white privilege'!

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8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Most likely Breitbart News searched until they found a Black woman who hates BLM and then let her loose at a protest. This is not the way news should operate.  Don't you think it strange that Breitbart would be out filming all the protests, hoping they would catch someone who does not believe prejudice for Blacks exists in the US?

And of course there are Blacks who do not believe prejudice exists in the US, but they are waaay in the minority.  And why would finding one or a few Blacks who say prejudice does not exist negate all the others who say it does?   I can find one person with an opposing view on any subject -- that does not prove the opposing view is wrong. Do you see the error in your logic?

Perhaps so and on the flip side, left wing media simply refuses to print stories that run counter to their agenda or plays very fast loose with the data. To be able to get a good handle on whats really going on out there from our armchairs, one needs to look at both sides and realize that the truth is hopefully somewhere in the middle.

So what did you think of what the woman had to say regarding that if BLM is really concerned that Black lives matter, they should be doing more in coming up with solutions of Blacks killing Blacks in such large numbers? Wouldn't you agree that considering in one city, on one weekend, the same amount of Blacks are murdered by other Blacks then all unarmed ones the police killed in a year all over the country? Would you not agree from a rational point of view that the average Black person in an inner city has much more to worry about from that then concern about racism from whites and/or the police as a whole?

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16 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

America is the game Monopoly. When you play the game everybody starts with the same amount of money, in the same spot, etc so more or less its a fair game. From there, its a game of strategy and chance...life right? Now suppose you introduce a player (blacks) after the game is well underway(slavery, Jim Crow, red lining, voter suppression, mass incarceration), all the other players have bought up most of the property (generational wealth) and utilities give them $50(civil rights movement). Not a fair game, right?

That's the Monopoly analogy.

Would be a good analogy if you didn't leave out the other 90% of immigrant white folk who came to america even after the Blacks were set free.

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2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So what did you think of what the woman had to say regarding that if BLM is really concerned that Black lives matter, they should be doing more in coming up with solutions of Blacks killing Blacks in such large numbers? Wouldn't you agree that considering in one city, on one weekend, the same amount of Blacks are murdered by other Blacks then all unarmed ones the police killed in a year all over the country? Would you not agree from a rational point of view that the average Black person in an inner city has much more to worry about from that then concern about racism from whites and/or the police as a whole?

So what are you saying? Black Lives Matter is irrelevant because black people kill black people because a black woman said it or are you saying Black Lives Matter is irrelevant because black people kill black people?

 

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5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Would be a good analogy if you didn't leave out the other 90% of immigrant white folk who came to america even after the Blacks were set free.

Way to ignore Jim crow, voter suppression, red lining, police brutality and mass incarceration...all of which happened after slavery and some of which is still occuring today.

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2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Perhaps so and on the flip side, left wing media simply refuses to print stories that run counter to their agenda or plays very fast loose with the data. To be able to get a good handle on whats really going on out there from our armchairs, one needs to look at both sides and realize that the truth is hopefully somewhere in the middle.

So what did you think of what the woman had to say regarding that if BLM is really concerned that Black lives matter, they should be doing more in coming up with solutions of Blacks killing Blacks in such large numbers? Wouldn't you agree that considering in one city, on one weekend, the same amount of Blacks are murdered by other Blacks then all unarmed ones the police killed in a year all over the country? Would you not agree from a rational point of view that the average Black person in an inner city has much more to worry about from that then concern about racism from whites and/or the police as a whole?

I agree with your first point -- either extreme is often wrong, or at the very least distorted.

To your 2nd point, yes we should all be concerned with black on black crime too. But a big contributor to this problem is the systemic racism in the US which causes Blacks to endure poverty in far greater numbers than Whites -- without jobs and a way to a better life they often turn on each other.  It's important to keep in mind that the BLM protests are not just about murders, though a murder sparked them -- they are about an unjust structural system in the US that places Blacks at a disadvantage.

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2 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:
7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Would be a good analogy if you didn't leave out the other 90% of immigrant white folk who came to america even after the Blacks were set free.

Way to ignore Jim crow, voter suppression, red lining, police brutality.

There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread.  I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

To your 2nd point, yes we should all be concerned with black on black crime too. But a big contributor to this problem is the systemic racism in the US which causes Blacks to endure poverty in far greater numbers than Whites -- without jobs and a way to a better life they often turn on each other.  It's important to keep in mind that the BLM protests are not just about murders, though a murder sparked them -- they are about an unjust structural system in the US that places Blacks at a disadvantage.

Many of the "Uncle Tom's" out there all point to the same reason for the high percentage of poverty. 73% single parent families! In this day and age, it is next to impossible to be above the poverty line on one single income with several or more children whether white or black. So perhaps before they teach sex education, it should be taught how poverty will be the curse if one starts having sex and children before having a committed partner? Does that sound rational?

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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread.  I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly.

They know....

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Just now, Janet Voxel said:
7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread.  I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly.

They know....

You remember the only thing we ever disagreed on all those months ago, and I danced around a bit but basically agreed, using my fatigue as an excuse for being so naughty.....   But I will make you a believer in the end!   lol   j/k    😆

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8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread.  I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly.

Well with all due respect, you have lots of excuses for why things are the way they are but yet no solutions other than trying to lay the blame on others. Maybe you need to come to see that in the end, you are so close to the situation that you aren't able to see the forest for the trees.

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8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:
19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

To your 2nd point, yes we should all be concerned with black on black crime too. But a big contributor to this problem is the systemic racism in the US which causes Blacks to endure poverty in far greater numbers than Whites -- without jobs and a way to a better life they often turn on each other.  It's important to keep in mind that the BLM protests are not just about murders, though a murder sparked them -- they are about an unjust structural system in the US that places Blacks at a disadvantage.

Many of the "Uncle Tom's" out there all point to the same reason for the high percentage of poverty. 73% single parent families! In this day and age, it is next to impossible to be above the poverty line on one single income with several or more children whether white or black. So perhaps before they teach sex education, it should be taught how poverty will be the curse if one starts having sex and children before having a committed partner? Does that sound rational?

Do you just not believe prejudice against POC exists in the US, and so try to come up with any other excuse for the situation Blacks endure here?   If we think Blacks are more likely to be criminal or less likely to be competent (as Social Science tests have demonstrated, as well as numerous examples given by POC themselves) doesn't it make sense this would make it more difficult for them to succeed than for Whites?  Why is this not a possible explanation for you?

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You remember the only thing we ever disagreed on all those months ago, and I danced around a bit but basically agreed, using my fatigue as an excuse for being so naughty.....   But I will make you a believer in the end!   lol   j/k    😆

Listen...they know and don't care. They wipe their butts with facts, then say "In my opinion..", say "Look at both sides...we should find some kind of understanding" then respond with extreme garbage and tell you you're being biased, gish-gallop, contradict themselves...I could go on all day.

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25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:
37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There's so much these people from other countries don't know about the US, or at least those outside the US who torture us on this thread.  I can only hope they pay attention and revise their opinions accordingly.

Well with all due respect, you have lots of excuses for why things are the way they are but yet no solutions other than trying to lay the blame on others. Maybe you need to come to see that in the end, you are so close to the situation that you aren't able to see the forest for the trees.

I have presented my solution clearly, and numerous times.  For all people in the US, take the forking bias test, go on a soul-searching introspection, and adjust your behavior accordingly so that you stop seeing Blacks as criminal and incompetent and yourself as superior to them.  Once we see POC as equals we will treat them as equals and afford them all the opportunities they deserve.

* Just take this down to your own personal life, if you are interacting with someone you deem to be criminal and/or incompetent, are you very likely to give them anything of yours? Wouldn't you give them less compared to an individual you viewed as competent and moral....a 'good person'?

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