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3 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

it IS the issue at hand, you just don't want to see it. I don't even know what you want at this point. I've asked you what you would do about that history and you're just bouncing the exact same question back to me, which i've answered several times by the way. Focus on TODAY. We're just going in circles at this point. You don't bring anything constructive to the table.

That's what you're not getting, way to project by the way. There is nothing you can do about history, but the history you seem to be keen on discarding directly affects what is happening today. Do I really need to explain to you how police today are rooted in slave catching? Do I really need to break down the prison system stems back to Jim Crow? Do I really need to breakdown why that needs to be reformed?

Today, there is an injustice both by the police and the justice system. You're asking me to break it down for you, when you claim to have read 50+ but all you see is what you can pick out to attack. You're going in circles, I'm not. 

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Trump said there were very fine people on both sides in the Charlottesville conflict, and called sports players "sons of bitches" for taking a knee to support ending racism.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-colin-kaepernick_n_59c6846be4b0cdc77331a2f0

Edited by Luna Bliss
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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You are imagining we (POC and their supporters) want awareness of the past so we can somehow punish people in the present because of that past.  This is not true!  We need to know the past (the patterns) because it forms the foundation of so much in the present -- knowing it makes a more complete understanding hence a more complete solution. If you don't know the past you are doomed to repeat it, a person much wiser than myself said.

Do you think we should only be aware of one knee on the neck, one murder, that began all the current crisis?  The murders and violence against POC has been happening for centuries, and people need to know about all of it -- if they would take the time to truly know about it they would understand the anger and frustration causing this current crisis. 

Yes, i see that, and i agree with that. Again, this is education. Maybe there lies the problem. I was asking Janet this because i wanted to know if it was about punishing today's generation, or currently alive people of past actions taken by people no longer alive. Sorry if i made that unclear. the reason i went that direction is because i see this happen way too often and was wondering if this was happening now.

I agree with your reasoning Luna. This is education. I sort of agree with your earlier statement that kids minds are like a sponge soaking everything up. But i don't completely agree with that. I have 3 kids, all 3 don't have a racist bone in their bodies because we as parents taught them not to. Not by thread of punishment if they did, but by educating them that every single person has the same rights and is a human being. You say that kids might pick up on things from TV shows or movies and run with it regardless. Maybe i'm naive or maybe its because i'm European, but i just simply don't see it that way. Kids need good education anda good upbringing. they need to know and understand those things from an early age.

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5 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I was asking Janet this because i wanted to know if it was about punishing today's generation, or currently alive people of past actions taken by people no longer alive. Sorry if i made that unclear. the reason i went that direction is because i see this happen way too often and was wondering if this was happening now.

Where do you see this? Where do you see that some want those currently alive to be punished for something they had nothing to do with?

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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

So where exactly in that Huffington Post link is it PROVEN that Trump Called White Supremacists ‘Very Fine People’ But An Athlete Who Protests Is A ‘Son Of A *****’ ??

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Where do you see this? Where do you see that some want those currently alive to be punished for something they had nothing to do with?

All through the thread. Every time you were mentioning how blacks were treated 50, 100, 400 years ago it was being used as a justification for some sort of reparations which is in effect a punishment.

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15 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I agree with your reasoning Luna. This is education. I sort of agree with your earlier statement that kids minds are like a sponge soaking everything up. But i don't completely agree with that. I have 3 kids, all 3 don't have a racist bone in their bodies because we as parents taught them not to. Not by thread of punishment if they did, but by educating them that every single person has the same rights and is a human being. You say that kids might pick up on things from TV shows or movies and run with it regardless. Maybe i'm naive or maybe its because i'm European, but i just simply don't see it that way. Kids need good education anda good upbringing. they need to know and understand those things from an early age.

Yes, good parenting is vital. The problem is that so many don't have good parenting. Plus, how could you control, say (if your child was Black), a teacher who expected your child not to learn because they were Black, or even said they did not have the right answer because they were a 'N-word' (as happened according to one woman describing her experience in a TED talk).  Or, a teacher who flat out thought Black children could not succeed and so didn't give them the same amount of attention?  The bias of lowered expectations for Black students has been demonstrated in Social Science tests, and Pussycat related her story of how Black students did not get as much access to counselors as Whites did, and more!

These kinds of experiences can really do a number on kids, on their self-esteem and subsequent ability to function well in school, even if having good parenting. 

You're only seeing your own experience, in your own country.  It's much different here, and the conditions were formed by the more recent experiences of slavery, Jim Crow, and the prison industrial complex. You really can't understand it fully unless you study all this.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Where do you see this? Where do you see that some want those currently alive to be punished for something they had nothing to do with?

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/gray-matters/article/how-to-heal-racism-joy-sewing-column-houston-12510316.php

https://medium.com/@ciarrajones/the-violence-of-white-and-non-black-poc-apologies-d1321c0ccb8e

etc..

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5 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:
7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Where do you see this? Where do you see that some want those currently alive to be punished for something they had nothing to do with?

I thought I explained that.

I have foggy brain today, Janet....a bit ill -- you'll have to point me to it or repeat it...

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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I have foggy brain today, Janet....a bit ill -- you'll have to point me to it or repeat it...

 

1 hour ago, Janet Voxel said:

Feel free to disagree with me all you want, I'm just going to assume the 'you' is a collective one. The way you solve a problem is by looking at it holistically, doctors do it, mechanics do it, good teachers do it. So why wouldn't that approach be taken for something like this? The important question to ask when looking at something holistically is: How did this happen? Why did this happen? Then solutions are offered.

 The problem I'm seeing firstly is, you seem to be making this a 'you' vs 'me' issue, when this is an US problem. I'm not asking for an apology, I'm asking for a change. This isn't about apologies, apologies aren't going to fix anything. When your car breaks down, do you apologize to it and just hope it works? No, you take it to a mechanic and he fixes the problem.

You are you and you weren't alive in 1792, neither was I. I'm not asking for your apology or a city painting a mural or TV execs removing an episode of Golden Girls. That's not what this is about.

You're not edgy, you seem to be offended at something though and you seem to be asking the wrong questions. This isn't about you, so why are you taking it personally like it is?

And she posts White people apologising. Again.....not asking for that. 

If you listen to what the man was saying he said they were apologising for systemic racism, he wasn't apologising for himself or anything he did personally.

So why take umbrage? That's what this seems like to me...umbrage.

Edited by Janet Voxel
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9 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:
18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

So where exactly in that Huffington Post link is it PROVEN that Trump Called White Supremacists ‘Very Fine People’ But An Athlete Who Protests Is A ‘Son Of A *****’ ??

Here's the "son of a *****" part:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/22/donald-trump-nfl-national-anthem-protests

During the uproar in Charlottesville Trump would not condemn the white supremacists, saying there were very fine people on both sides.  

Here's Trump mocking a disabled person:

 

trump mocks disabled.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, good parenting is vital. The problem is that so many don't have good parenting. Plus, how could you control, say (if your child was Black), a teacher who expected your child not to learn because they were Black, or even said they did not have the right answer because they were a 'N-word' (as happened according to one woman describing her experience in a TED talk).  Or, a teacher who flat out thought Black children could not succeed and so didn't give them the same amount of attention?  The bias of lowered expectations for Black students has been demonstrated in Social Science tests, and Pussycat related her story of how Black students did not get as much access to counselors as Whites did, and more!   

You're only seeing your own experience, in your own country.  It's much different here, and the conditions were formed by the more recent experiences of slavery, Jim Crow, and the prison industrial complex. You really can't understand it fully unless you study all this.

As i said before, i follow quite a bit of American Politics and i am very aware of what is happening in America. The examples you give here are undenyable cases of racism and should be condemned and corrected. But it does not give anyone the right to start doing the same thing. Yes, i keep hammering on that. This is not a solution to the problem.

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

trump mocks disabled on CNN.gif

Trump also used the arm-thrashing act when making fun of himself during an interview with Larry King in 2005; when imitating a bank president in October; and when mocking an Army general at the same November speech in which he made the original Kovaleski comments.

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6 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

As i said before, i follow quite a bit of American Politics and i am very aware of what is happening in America. The examples you give here are undenyable cases of racism and should be condemned and corrected. But it does not give anyone the right to start doing the same thing. Yes, i keep hammering on that. This is not a solution to the problem.

There are always people who seek revenge when they've been harmed.  I'm sure this has happened during the conflict, but I have not seen it much, and I haven't seen anyone revengeful on this forum.

The truth is, in America we have made Blacks the latrine of the US, and we need to come to terms with this -- to see Blacks as competent people and no more criminal than the rest of us.  I'm sorry we've viewed them this way in the US.

 

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11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Here's the "son of a *****" part:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/22/donald-trump-nfl-national-anthem-protests

During the uproar in Charlottesville Trump would not condemn the white supremacists, saying there were very fine people on both sides.  

Here's Trump mocking a disabled person:

 

trump mocks disabled.jpg

He does that when making fun of people, he has done that before that interview. He also talks with his hands a lot, so he is super exaggerating his hand movements. The whole "he is making fun of a person with a disability" is just the media yet again trying to attack Trump with baseless accusations.
Sure, Trump has done some things I disagree with and I think would be news worthy, but if you are going to attack Trump, at least do it for something actually did.

 

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6 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

And here is the actual truth behind that > https://660amtheanswer.com/content/all/did-donald-trump-really-mock-a-reporters-disability

 

Please stop blindly believing "media"

The media you've chosen is a blog with a religious agenda, so is far less credible than mine.

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1 minute ago, Chaser Zaks said:

He does that when making fun of people, he has done that before that interview. He also talks with his hands a lot, so he is super exaggerating his hand movements. The whole "he is making fun of a person with a disability" is just the media yet again trying to attack Trump with baseless accusations.
Sure, Trump has done some things I disagree with and I think would be news worthy, but if you are going to attack Trump, at least do it for something actually did.

He was mocking a disabled reporter.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

He was mocking a disabled reporter.

No he was not. In this link > https://i.gyazo.com/e56a2ce76a3c0440625915e51b8c96de.mp4 He makes fun of himself using the same gesture. You're seeing what you want to see and what the "media" tells you to see, and you soak it up, like those mushy kid-brains you mentioned earlier.

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20 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

And she posts White people apologising. Again.....not asking for that. 

If you listen to what the man was saying he said they were apologising for systemic racism, he wasn't apologising for himself or anything he did personally.

So why take umbrage? That's what this seems like to me...umbrage.

Why is it that when some people are asked to examine any bias they might have they are eager to take the bias tests and simply assume rightly so that all people have bias, while others freak out and think you're punishing them to even suggest they might have any bias these tests could reveal?    It's a mystery....

 

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