How to kid proof SL

[animats]

The game rating systems for kids won't allow unmoderated chat below age 12. So SL is out.

Animal Crossing is an option. Chat is automatically censored, and it's all saturated colors and rounded corners, so it's considered kid-friendly. Animal Crossing seems nice, but it is a harsh world - you start out in debt and have to work your way out, paying off Tom Nook, the landlord. Preparation for real life.

 

 

[Lindal Kidd]

7 hours ago, Elinah Iredell said:

I absolutely see your point but I was thinking what if  a mother and daughter are playing the game together on the same account? A mother is there providing protected supervision and not leaing a child by  herself  is that still  a violation of the terms of service?  You can set your land so that nobody can even see there are any avatars on there, or place it on  an island skybox away from everyone and don't allow any contact . 

I don't disagree with Elinah...I almost wrote something similar, and I know that some parents do have their kids sitting right there with them while they're in SL.  But I decided to play it safe on this one and stick with the Rules.  It's POSSIBLE for an underage person to be in SL...but definitely risky, both to the child and to the parent's account.  Best not to do it.

[ItHadToComeToThis]

On 6/6/2020 at 2:45 PM, lvictoria said:

Me and my nine-year-old daughter were talking about virtual reality headsets and I brought up second life because I feel that would be the funnest place to use it. I showed her a couple videos about second Life on YouTube and now she really wants to play. I do think it would be very fun to explore SL with her, but we all know there are many many things in second life that are not for children. My question is - is it actually possible for me to explore the world with her in a kid-friendly fashion? I would hate for her to see something on there that she shouldn't see. I know that I can change her settings, I know that there are specific regions that kids are allowed. But do you have any other advice or tips and tricks on how to make sure that we don't run into any issues? Thank you guys in advance. 

Roblox is more what you are looking for. SL isn’t the place for a 9 year old. Adult play Roblox too (myself for example as I develop on RB) but there is def a large younger audience and more appropriate interesting content for her than you would find on SL

[Drayke Newall]

10 hours ago, Sister Nova said:

The restricted area for underage users was provided before, and did not work so it was closed.

It would be a nightmare to try and moderate a restricted area. How would sign ups be vetted? How could you guarantee that child A's new friend 'B' was really a child? I'm pretty sure the Lab really wouldn't want to touch this with a barge pole.

Actually, the teen grid wasn't closed at all for those reasons. It was closed simply due to budgeting at the time IIRC and them reducing their costs under infamous CEO's reigns.

It was also a case of the other way around. Whilst I cant guarantee that there were no adults on the teen grid, it was more the other way around where teens tried to get on the adult grid and succeeded, just like kids and teens succeed in getting onto the adult grid still. So I pose this question to you, how do the lab vet their users currently? I'll give you a clue, they don't and just rely on a persons honest in date of birth and on a legal ToS just in case a parent sue. If you don't buy lindens you don't need proof of age and can access all G rated sims without payment info on file. This means kids and teens under 16 year old's can still access second life and the fact that people in this very thread have reported such accounts proves this.

Whilst I am not a parent though do have nieces and nephews (I know how they get around things), I am sure many parents would much rather a kid and teen friendly area of SL that cant be accessed by adult and adult content, utilises the inworld building system to stop adult content from being made (generally), and has a controlled system avatar in place over one that currently allows underage accounts in to adult possible content and abuse freely WITHOUT vetting.

The sign-up for the teen grid was vetted reasonably well and far more than most other games or platforms at its time. For instance do you really think a nine year old doesn't know how to enter in their wrong age or date of birth to access R18+ games on steam that a free or mobile games free on their phones? Even adults just enter a random low year just to get rid of the annoying popup. The company providing the service generally only covers themselves from such things for legal with basic measures and ToS's and leave it to the parents to be the ones liable at most for non supervision.

4 hours ago, animats said:

The game rating systems for kids won't allow unmoderated chat below age 12. So SL is out.

Animal Crossing is an option. Chat is automatically censored, and it's all saturated colors and rounded corners, so it's considered kid-friendly. Animal Crossing seems nice, but it is a harsh world - you start out in debt and have to work your way out, paying off Tom Nook, the landlord. Preparation for real life.

This would be why an update would be needed for a kid separate grid. Could even have a separate non open source kids viewer directly from Linden Lab. The fact is the market is there and SL could be adapted quite easily to allow for younger kids so long as it is managed properly. I would also like to add that LL have already mentioned they are working on a mobile app. I can guarantee if this is the case there is going to be a massive influx of new underage users once it is released to try the new imuv or dress up barbie style virtual world. Better to nip it in the butt now with a kids area than get caught out then when it is released and they cant reasonably stop younger children from downloading and playing on their phone.

[Mollymews]

20 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Whilst I am not a parent though do have nieces and nephews (I know how they get around things), I am sure many parents would much rather a kid and teen friendly area of SL that cant be accessed by adult and adult content, utilises the inworld building system to stop adult content from being made (generally), and has a controlled system avatar in place over one that currently allows underage accounts in to adult possible content and abuse freely WITHOUT vetting.

yes. Is about the content and what can be done with the content in world

in hindsight I think Linden would have had more success (sign-ups wise) had they gone with a G-rated all ages access grid (similar to Minecraft, Fortnite, etc) rather than as they did with the TG - a RL youth age restricted grid which on sign up nominally required RL proof registration.  The separate main grid (as we have now) continuing to be RL age-restricted (R18) excluding minors

 

[Sister Nova]

38 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Actually, the teen grid wasn't closed at all for those reasons. It was closed simply due to budgeting at the time IIRC and them reducing their costs under infamous CEO's reigns.

It was also a case of the other way around. Whilst I cant guarantee that there were no adults on the teen grid, it was more the other way around where teens tried to get on the adult grid and succeeded, just like kids and teens succeed in getting onto the adult grid still. So I pose this question to you, how do the lab vet their users currently? I'll give you a clue, they don't and just rely on a persons honest in date of birth and on a legal ToS just in case a parent sue. If you don't buy lindens you don't need proof of age and can access all G rated sims without payment info on file. This means kids and teens under 16 year old's can still access second life and the fact that people in this very thread have reported such accounts proves this.

Whilst I am not a parent though do have nieces and nephews (I know how they get around things), I am sure many parents would much rather a kid and teen friendly area of SL that cant be accessed by adult and adult content, utilises the inworld building system to stop adult content from being made (generally), and has a controlled system avatar in place over one that currently allows underage accounts in to adult possible content and abuse freely WITHOUT vetting.

The sign-up for the teen grid was vetted reasonably well and far more than most other games or platforms at its time. For instance do you really think a nine year old doesn't know how to enter in their wrong age or date of birth to access R18+ games on steam that a free or mobile games free on their phones? Even adults just enter a random low year just to get rid of the annoying popup. The company providing the service generally only covers themselves from such things for legal with basic measures and ToS's and leave it to the parents to be the ones liable at most for non supervision.

This would be why an update would be needed for a kid separate grid. Could even have a separate non open source kids viewer directly from Linden Lab. The fact is the market is there and SL could be adapted quite easily to allow for younger kids so long as it is managed properly. I would also like to add that LL have already mentioned they are working on a mobile app. I can guarantee if this is the case there is going to be a massive influx of new underage users once it is released to try the new imuv or dress up barbie style virtual world. Better to nip it in the butt now with a kids area than get caught out then when it is released and they cant reasonably stop younger children from downloading and playing on their phone.

You answered the question you posed me, so I’m not going comment further there.

As for the mobile app, it has been said when it was mentioned that those logging via the app would not have a presence in world. It’s pretty much just a chat facility so people can keep up with groups and friends whilst out and about. As to whether that will attract a young audience, I doubt it.

There will always be a get around for anyone doing pretty much anything, we just have to do the best we can to protect those that need it.

[Drayke Newall]

43 minutes ago, Sister Nova said:

You answered the question you posed me, so I’m not going comment further there.

As for the mobile app, it has been said when it was mentioned that those logging via the app would not have a presence in world. It’s pretty much just a chat facility so people can keep up with groups and friends whilst out and about. As to whether that will attract a young audience, I doubt it.

There will always be a get around for anyone doing pretty much anything, we just have to do the best we can to protect those that need it.

Yeah I kind of did, got carried away haha.

As to the mobile app, if that is all LL are going to do then it will be a disaster and will not garner any form of new users or retention and to be honest be a waste of investment money and end up like Sansar - aka a white elephant. Even the third party chat viewer on mobile didn't have that many users, nor did it help in any way to increase SL users or retention.

They really need to invest strong in the mobile client to allow the person to do more than just chat as there are more and more people moving to smaller devices and away from desktops.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Drayke Newall
spelling

[Drake1 Nightfire]

14 hours ago, Elinah Iredell said:

I absolutely see your point but I was thinking what if  a mother and daughter are playing the game together on the same account? A mother is there providing protected supervision and not leaing a child by  herself  is that still  a violation of the terms of service?  You can set your land so that nobody can even see there are any avatars on there, or place it on  an island skybox away from everyone and don't allow any contact . 

Setting your land so others cant see you is not the same as them not knowing people are there. you still show up on the minimap.

[Bree Giffen]

There are two things I'd be concerned about if kids were on the grid. 1) A kid being exposed to adult content, and 2) an adult going after a kid. On point #1, Second Life is filled with adult themes and it's guaranteed that a kid would stumble into it. Just check out the SL Marketplace without logging in and see what comes up under the 'general' products. I guess you really need a butt shot when you're selling poses. All that aside, point #2 is almost non-existent because of the adult population in SL. Why would anyone looking for kids go to a place filled with adults and all the kid avatars are adults as well? Places like Roblox which have no adult content but are filled with kids have the exact opposite problem. I don't know which is worse. 

[Axel UwU]

15 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

I don't believe children should be encouraged to be involved with Second Life at all. It - and other computer-based things - are too addictive and time consuming. Plus, all their school work is done on computers these days. They should be encouraged to be outdoors in the fresh air playing with friends a whole lot more, taken to parks, shown the big wide world, not encouraged to become basement dwellers! 

And even if Linden Lab did create a special little place just for children, it would need to be massively supervised by parents, and I doubt that would ever happen. I have seen far too many children just left to their own devices with devices, and too many parents believing their kids are safe just because they are indoors and in the next room to them (and I do not include the OP in this generalisation, as she seems to have been responsible enough to ask our opinions). 

This. Is. Just. My. Opinion. 

 

Seems though in this Coronavirus world. Many are mostly staying at home nowadays. I know a few weeks ago, some people were driving by the house due to not being to have graduation irl.

 

I wonder if avoiding human contact will become the new normal.

[Arielle Popstar]

On 6/6/2020 at 9:45 AM, lvictoria said:

Me and my nine-year-old daughter were talking about virtual reality headsets and I brought up second life because I feel that would be the funnest place to use it. I showed her a couple videos about second Life on YouTube and now she really wants to play. I do think it would be very fun to explore SL with her, but we all know there are many many things in second life that are not for children. My question is - is it actually possible for me to explore the world with her in a kid-friendly fashion? I would hate for her to see something on there that she shouldn't see. I know that I can change her settings, I know that there are specific regions that kids are allowed. But do you have any other advice or tips and tricks on how to make sure that we don't run into any issues? Thank you guys in advance. 

There is another option if you would really like an S/L style world to explore or interact in and that is Opensimulator. It allows connection with the same sort of viewers used in Secondlife but are independent grids with varying policies and in general, much less to no adult style content. The main grid there, Osgrid.org unfortunately has the same minimum age requirement as S/L but it is just one of many independently owned and run grids there. These grids though independent are often interconnected with each other through a teleporting mechanism known as Hypergridding so that in spite of there being less people overall then in S/L, you can still potentially access many other grids from one login.

Being that Opensimulator is opensource software, one can actually create a home hosted server that allows you to have your own grid and be in full control of the sort of content on it and who can access it. It really is not that difficult requiring less configuration then a typical new viewer install and can be often be installed on the same machine as the viewer if the computer is reasonably new .

There is in fact an app created by a former S/L resident Ferd Frederix that makes the whole process much easier and even has a Mewe and Facebook group for help and support. In addition, there are over 100  regions of ready-to-go, curated and free content that you can load with just a click and all of it kid safe. 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

4 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

They really need to invest strong in the mobile client to allow the person to do more than just chat as there are more and more people moving to smaller devices and away from desktops.

Still many using desktops/laptops and the game is better experienced on those. Maybe they should develop a decent version for the larger tablets --- but SL on a phone wouldn't work for most.

[Marigold Devin]

7 hours ago, Axelfoxthefoxyfluff said:

 

Seems though in this Coronavirus world. Many are mostly staying at home nowadays. I know a few weeks ago, some people were driving by the house due to not being to have graduation irl.

 

I wonder if avoiding human contact will become the new normal.

I wonder so many things in this moment too, Axel, and I feel very sad at the thought this lack of human contact will become the new normal. 

(As I currently look out of my window and see around 20 construction workers putting the top layer onto some new flats/apartments - I hope none of them have got kids/grandchildren they might potentially pass infection on to.)

Apologies to the OP for slightly going off topic here. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Marigold Devin
I need a new keyboard - on order where is it?

[Elinah Iredell]

On 6/7/2020 at 7:09 AM, Marigold Devin said:

I don't believe children should be encouraged to be involved with Second Life at all. It - and other computer-based things - are too addictive and time consuming. Plus, all their school work is done on computers these days. They should be encouraged to be outdoors in the fresh air playing with friends a whole lot more, taken to parks, shown the big wide world, not encouraged to become basement dwellers! 

And even if Linden Lab did create a special little place just for children, it would need to be massively supervised by parents, and I doubt that would ever happen. I have seen far too many children just left to their own devices with devices, and too many parents believing their kids are safe just because they are indoors and in the next room to them (and I do not include the OP in this generalisation, as she seems to have been responsible enough to ask our opinions). 

This. Is. Just. My. Opinion. 

You do bring up a valid point. When I was growing up kids played outside and that is important. Computers are too addicting but not just for children, for adults too..Isn't it strange to have this conversation on the Second lLfe message board ? Still with children being kidnapped these days we can't just leave them to go out to play anymore, we have to be there to watch and protect . 

[Elinah Iredell]

10 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Setting your land so others cant see you is not the same as them not knowing people are there. you still show up on the minimap.

Maybe we should ask Linden to change that ? Do avatars still show up on the mini map if they are in a skybox high above their land ? 

[Lillith Hapmouche]

12 minutes ago, Elinah Iredell said:

Do avatars still show up on the mini map if they are in a skybox high above their land ? 

Of course they do. Why shouldn't they?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

34 minutes ago, Elinah Iredell said:

You do bring up a valid point. When I was growing up kids played outside and that is important. Computers are too addicting but not just for children, for adults too..Isn't it strange to have this conversation on the Second lLfe message board ? Still with children being kidnapped these days we can't just leave them to go out to play anymore, we have to be there to watch and protect . 

What?!?
What kids are being kidnapped? Where? When my youngest was 9 she and her 11 year old sister would regularly go to the local park/playground. The playgrounds around here are packed with kids all the time. YOu must live in a very bad area full of paedos to see kids being snatched these days. 

[Whirly Fizzle]

On 6/6/2020 at 2:45 PM, lvictoria said:

Me and my nine-year-old daughter were talking about virtual reality headsets and I brought up second life because I feel that would be the funnest place to use it. I showed her a couple videos about second Life on YouTube and now she really wants to play. I do think it would be very fun to explore SL with her, but we all know there are many many things in second life that are not for children. My question is - is it actually possible for me to explore the world with her in a kid-friendly fashion? I would hate for her to see something on there that she shouldn't see. I know that I can change her settings, I know that there are specific regions that kids are allowed. But do you have any other advice or tips and tricks on how to make sure that we don't run into any issues? Thank you guys in advance. 

What about this? https://www.campvirtual.com/

It's in SL & aimed at kids aged 7-17.

[Marigold Devin]

1 hour ago, Elinah Iredell said:

You do bring up a valid point. When I was growing up kids played outside and that is important. Computers are too addicting but not just for children, for adults too..Isn't it strange to have this conversation on the Second lLfe message board ? Still with children being kidnapped these days we can't just leave them to go out to play anymore, we have to be there to watch and protect . 

Indeed, children do need to be supervised, outdoors or indoors.  I would suggest to the OP absolutely NO WAY should she be encouraging her daughter to use Second Life. And in view of most school work being computer-based, I would suggest doing something not computer-based. Star jumps indoors, hide and seek, colouring books, planting up window boxes or shrub tubs if there is no access to a garden, and if there is access to a garden, and if Mum was going to supervise daughter in Second Life, then Mum can also be using that same amount of time for supervising outdoor activities.  Good for both Mum and daughter, I think.

But yes, Elinah, it may appear to be strange to be having this conversation on the Second Life message board, but I have been outdoors today, a 1.6m walk, with social distancing, and have been chopping the privet hedge down since arriving at my brother's house, so all in all, I have not been sitting all of this time in front of my computer.  I refuse to have a Smartphone, because people become slaves to the bings and bongs of their devices, and that should really be put on the Pet Peeves thread !!!

Remembering what I loved to do as a kid, pre-computer days of course, on rainy days, we'd get all the furniture in the living room and blankets and build a den! Much to the dismay of my poor father, who just wanted his chair back upright so he could read his paper (he was a bricklayer, would get rained off sometimes and be grumpy when at home!).  

Baking too, that was a nice rainy day thing to do.  

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Marigold Devin

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

What about this? https://www.campvirtual.com/

It's in SL & aimed at kids aged 7-17.

it's in SL ? ... i hope they'r talking about L$   ... it's not exactly that the "it's only 295 ... " isn't a lot of money

[Ardy Lay]

Too bad they used a potato to make their promotional video.  Ugh.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

4 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

What about this? https://www.campvirtual.com/

It's in SL & aimed at kids aged 7-17.

I can not believe you are promoting a site that actively allows 7 year olds in SL.. You are promoting the breaking of the TOS.

That website is shady as heck.. Says nothing about SL anywhere on it. If you call the number you get a recording saying "Hi this is (some guys name) please leave a message or text the number for a faster reply." Nothing about the business, Camp or anything. $300USD a week for a SL camp? Never mind they cant legally have 7 year olds in SL. 

How can it possibly be a "real summer camp" if its virtual? They are charging their "campers" the cost of a full sims tier in one week. Talk about over charging. 

Shady as heck.. 

They want a boat load of RL info before telling you anything as well. Methinks LL needs to be notified of these sims.  They opened a month ago.. their camp director is 34 days old.. Completely blank profile.

Yeah, wouldnt touch that with a 39 1/2 foot pole.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

3 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

I refuse to have a Smartphone, because people become slaves to the bings and bongs of their devices, and that should really be put on the Pet Peeves thread !!!

 

Remembering what I loved to do as a kid, pre-computer days of course, on rainy days, we'd get all the furniture in the living room and blankets and build a den! Much to the dismay of my poor father, who just wanted his chair back upright so he could read his paper (he was a bricklayer, would get rained off sometimes and be grumpy when at home!).  

Baking too, that was a nice rainy day thing to do.  

 

Amen! We still use a flip phone and for it's main purpose --- talk! Sometimes I'd get looks "What? No smart phone?" but I'm old school. I also grew up in the old days and the only "computer" you had was a calculator --- the type with the red LEDs on them!

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

2 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I can not believe you are promoting a site that actively allows 7 year olds in SL.. You are promoting the breaking of the TOS.

That website is shady as heck.. Says nothing about SL anywhere on it. If you call the number you get a recording saying "Hi this is (some guys name) please leave a message or text the number for a faster reply." Nothing about the business, Camp or anything. $300USD a week for a SL camp? Never mind they cant legally have 7 year olds in SL. 

How can it possibly be a "real summer camp" if its virtual? They are charging their "campers" the cost of a full sims tier in one week. Talk about over charging. 

 

Shady as heck.. 

They want a boat load of RL info before telling you anything as well. Methinks LL needs to be notified of these sims.  They opened a month ago.. their camp director is 34 days old.. Completely blank profile.

Yeah, wouldnt touch that with a 39 1/2 foot pole.

I wondered that too unless they made special arrangements with the Lindens, but I doubt that. I believe there's some laws that restrict people under a certain age into virtual worlds. Even major MMOs have a lower age restriction.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

15 hours ago, Sister Nova said:

As for the mobile app, it has been said when it was mentioned that those logging via the app would not have a presence in world. It’s pretty much just a chat facility so people can keep up with groups and friends whilst out and about. As to whether that will attract a young audience, I doubt it.

There will always be a get around for anyone doing pretty much anything, we just have to do the best we can to protect those that need it.

there is already a mobile app that can be used by anyone and has a presence in world... lumiya, and any kid can get on the grid since ll does not age verify. and then they could have mommy or daddy by them the gift cards to load lindens and then buy what they want..