Do you think there are other physical properties besides space and time in SL?

[Gopi Passiflora]

Please hear me out....

We can measure quantities of space (using the meter for length and m^2 for area) and time (using seconds, minutes, etc.) in Second Life. This suggests that in the Second Life world, space and time are physical properties of that particular reality.

But in the real world (aka First Life), there are other physical properties besides space and time. They include things like mass, temperature, electric charge, and so on. My question to you is, do you think those other physical properties exist in the Second Life world?

To help us examine this question, let us look at how the physical properties mass, temperature, and electric charge affect our world:

Mass:

Force = mass * acceleration

Weight = mass * gravitational acceleration

Gravitational Force = G*mass1*mass2/(distance^2)

Basically can be understood as an object's resistance to acceleration when a force is applied (such as a kick.) For a given constant gravitational acceleration (such as on the surface of Earth), it can be a measure of how heavy something is.

Temperature:

Can be understood as how "hot" or "cold" something is, or more formally, it is associated with the energy of the motions of atoms or molecules in a substance.

Electric Charge:

Electric Force = charge * Electric Field Strength

Magnetic Force = charge * velocity * Magnetic Field Strength

Electric Charge is associated with electromagnetic forces.

Now how can they be related to Second Life? I provide additional questions to ponder to help answer the main question:

Mass: Is there a concept of heaviness in Second Life? Are there forces in SL at all?

Temperature: Is there "hot" and "cold" in Second Life?

Electric Charge: Is there electromagnetic phenomena in Second Life?

[Madelaine McMasters]

SL simulates some of the things you describe, but they do not "exist" there. There is no need to simulate temperature, as there is no way to communicate that to a user. There's no reason to simulate electromagnetic forces as humans can't sense them, except as generic force, which is already simulated. Haptic interfaces might allow future physical simulations to express temperature and electrostatic attraction/repulsion, but even then, modeling such things indirectly will be far more efficient than modeling the actual underlying physics.

[Lucia Nightfire]

47 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

Mass: Is there a concept of heaviness in Second Life? Are there forces in SL at all?

Fun Fact: A developer made the maximum density an object can have based on that of Osmium.

[Lindal Kidd]

There's wind.  However, that does not mean that there is air, or that it has mass, or that it is affected by temperature differences or the spin of the earth.  Besides, you can use a script to change the wind to whatever direction and speed you like, if you don't like the rather variable "natural" wind.

There's gravity.  But once again, it only applies to avatars and to Physical objects.  And not even to avatars, if we fly or hover.  Energy of position exists in some limited sense...when you fall, you fall at a constant speed...but what happens when you hit the ground depends, to a degree, on how high you fall from.  A short fall results in a crouch.  A longer fall results in your falling to the ground, then getting up and dusting yourself off.  A fall from a great height causes you to SPLAT.  And if you are in a damage enabled area, to die.

There's light.  But it does not follow any of the rules for light that a physicist would expect.  Apparently visible light is the only part of the electromagnetic spectrum that exists in SL.

Apparently, kinetic energy exists and can be transferred, between physical objects and avatars.  But a huge avatar has no more inertia than a tiny one.  (This can produce some amusing effects when an itty bitty fairy shoves some three hundred pound goon out of her way.)  Also, you can greatly increase your inertia with a movelock.

There are impenetrable force fields...banlines.  They are somewhat elastic.  Find a place with banlines.  Fly up more than 50m, move over the banned area, and turn off flight.  You'll bounce on the banlines' "roof" like a trampoline.

On the whole, SL is not modeled very accurately on the physical world at all.  The developers just created a world that "looks real for everyday purposes".  It doesn't hold up if some scientific fellow pulls back the curtain.

 

[Rhonda Huntress]

For what it's worth, time does not behave in SL the way it does in real life.  It is not affected by mass at all but is constant, even with lag and "time dilation" on a sim. 

[Derekmate]

Is light a physical attribution? 

[Derekmate]

There is the fake gravity what is density in reality just like IRL where is density make things go down not the fake gravity what the "scientices" lieing to us. 

And this is a fact research it if you don't believe to me.??

[Callum Meriman]

7 hours ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

Mass: Is there a concept of heaviness in Second Life? Are there forces in SL at all?

On edit, features tab.

* edit: You are 8 years old and don't know about physical items?

Edited August 19, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[animats]

Physical objects in SL have mass, kinetic energy, and momentum. Avatars have mass, kinetic energy, and momentum when sitting on a physical object.

How much does my avatar weigh? The wooden objects are all physical, and I adjusted the size of the left block until the balance was stable.

The left box is 1.0 x 0.5 x 0.5 meters, or 0.25 cubic meter. If it's 0.9 long, the avatar sinks to the ground. Here's it's in balance.

Density of the box is 1000 kg/cubic meter, which is the density of water. So the avatar weighs about 250kg.

That's huge. To the physics engine, the avatar is a capsule, a cylinder with rounded ends big enough to contain the avatar. Filled with water, that would be about right.

This matters to vehicle designers. You can get stability problems. The avatar can overbalance a vehicle. Motorcycle handling changes with a passenger on the back.

Physical objects also have a center of gravity (which is different from the object root) and ought to have a moment of inertia, although I don't know if SL computes moments realistically.

Edited August 19, 2018 by animats

[Nalates Urriah]

There is no anything in the SL world. It is all simulation, a mathematical concept that the computer uses to draw a picture.

If we measure a distance within SL, what are we actually measuring? We aren't actually measuring between things. There are no 'things'. We are literally subtracting coordinate values and determining the difference between numbers.

Time is unique in RL. It isn't exactly tangible. It is a thing we experience more see or touch. So, we impose our concept of time in SL. Time in SL is not a thing independent or outside of RL. And depending on how one chooses to think about it, there is no time in SL. There is no entropy or anything else in SL that ages with time.

It is numbers representing our thoughts so our computers can draw an animated picture.

[animats]

3 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

There's light.  But it does not follow any of the rules for light that a physicist would expect.  Apparently visible light is the only part of the electromagnetic spectrum that exists in SL.

Light in SL exists only in the viewer. You cannot detect light in-world. You can't make an animesh creature which seeks light or shadow.

[Anna Nova]

It is for sure easier to balance my racing catamaran sailboat against the wind with 2 avatars on on the trapeze...

[Bradford Mint]

1 hour ago, Derekmate said:

There is the fake gravity what is density in reality just like IRL where is density make things go down not the fake gravity what the "scientices" lieing to us. 

And this is a fact research it if you don't believe to me.??

I agree, SL is flat thus can have no such thing as gravity.

[Callum Meriman]

56 minutes ago, animats said:

Light in SL exists only in the viewer. You cannot detect light in-world. You can't make an animesh creature which seeks light or shadow.

Hoever we can approximate it a little with sun angle. It's the crudest approximation of day or night.

(And I imagine a spanner in the works for EEP, when someone might be set to night while a detecting object sees day)

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

Our world, our imagination. If someone can imagine it, it's part of their SL. If someone can imagine it and script it, it's part of everyone's.

[Ceka Cianci]

The black hole known as lag sucking up both time and space?

hehehehe

[LittleMe Jewell]

Time in SL is unlike time in RL - it flows at a much faster pace.  Just ask any pair of lovers that have only spent a week together and they'll tell you that it feels like months.  Which is part of why the breakups are so rough.

[Fionalein]

Unlike our suspicion in RL both time and space in SL are quantized, there exists a "smallest unit of each" most physicists think their RL counterparts are not...

[Gopi Passiflora]

9 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

On edit, features tab.

* edit: You are 8 years old and don't know about physical items?

I only really started using Second Life since last year. I guess I shouldn't have been exploring it as much as I think I have....

[ChinRey]

16 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

There is no anything in the SL world. It is all simulation, a mathematical concept that the computer uses to draw a picture.

Not too different from RL then.

 

[Walelu Summerwind]

Time dilation is a fact in SL.. one week feels like a month.. so I thing that time is subjective. I do believe that we are living in a simulation, but, that doesn't make our existence any less real..so lets add String Theory into the mix.. Realities are bubbles of existence.. and I'm thinking SL has its own string that makes it part of the reality membrane... RL is a simulation that looks more real.. but that doesn't make SL any less real.. and now I'm babbling. Time for bed ?

[BelindaN]

What really annoys me? The lack of shadows.  I would like to cast a shadow on the ground.

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, BelindaN said:

What really annoys me? The lack of shadows.  I would like to cast a shadow on the ground.

Uhh, you can, lol, it's in your graphic settings  

 

[Whirly Fizzle]

 

On 8/19/2018 at 12:08 AM, Gopi Passiflora said:

Do you think there are other physical properties besides space and time in SL?

Drama!

[Fenix Eldritch]

Fun fact about mass in SL: the unit is expressed in a made up unit nicknamed Lindograms. This is mentioned in the LSL wiki for llGetMass() and llGetObjectMass(). Later, a third function, llGetMassMKS() was created, which is the same as llGetMass, but returns the value in kilograms. From that, we can observe that the Lindogram is equivalent to the kilogram multiplied by 100. This seems to match up with the "Density in 100 kg^3" label form the GUI features tab screen shot above. I wonder if the original LSL calls intended to report kgs, but perhaps a typo in their coding cause the inflated value to be returned instead. Especially since llApplyImpulse() expects a value in kgs...

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Fenix Eldritch