superpeeve Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.

[AmeliaJ08]

3 hours ago, Orwar said:

   Prims can have physics - whether it's hair or a skirt, those are flexi prims. Mesh, as in 3D models designed in Blender and uploaded to SL, can't have that. Prims can be manipulated into suitable shapes and such; there's a fair few dresses that have a mesh base and then has prim bits with physics on them (much like flexi hair might have a static hairbase but parts of the hair itself moves).

I always thought that the (cheap) solution might be a hair 'bones' extension to the existing skeleton that function a little like the existing physics (boobs, belly, butt) bones in that they only move slightly and their action can be customized so floatier, longer hair could react more than shorter styles.

Not sure how many hair 'bones' you'd need to achieve a wide range of styles that move much like physics boobs etc do though. It's probably quite a lot to accommodate all possible hair styles.

 

 

Edited March 31 by AmeliaJ08

[Orwar]

22 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

A friend of mine got a dress that was supposed to move while dancing or gently in the wind.  She was so excited about it but for the life of me I could not see it. 

   Not 100% sure, but it might be that you've got the avatar physics turned down? 

   Honestly I think it's the same as with people who put their head/body's environmental specular settings to max, they got ALM off and see no difference, but to those of us who do have those settings on they end up looking as though they've been dipped in lacquer. Or the ones with full-bright ears and stuff, who never change to a night sky setting. 

[Orwar]

1 minute ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I always thought that the (cheap) solution might be hair 'bones' that function a little like the existing physics (boobs, belly, butt) bones in that they only move slightly and their action can be customized so floatier, longer hair could react more than shorter styles.

Not sure how many hair 'bones' you'd need to achieve a wide range of styles that move much like physics boobs etc do though. It's probably quite a lot to accommodate all possible hair styles.

   Bones is one thing I think SL could deal with better. I think that the bones should be a worn item, like a shape or skin, because limiting us to a human avi (as they did before) or the new bento quad-pedral-with-tail-and-wings stuff they got just .. Meh. 

   You could rig a dress to sway along with bones, but that'd require an animation that actually uses those bones and which works with the stand. We've got things like The P and some hairstyles that use a random 'non-human' bone for simulating physics and when it doesn't work with the animations your avi are using, things just end up looking kinda weird.

[AmeliaJ08]

5 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Not 100% sure, but it might be that you've got the avatar physics turned down? 

   Honestly I think it's the same as with people who put their head/body's environmental specular settings to max, they got ALM off and see no difference, but to those of us who do have those settings on they end up looking as though they've been dipped in lacquer. Or the ones with full-bright ears and stuff, who never change to a night sky setting. 

Noticed some heads and bodies come with that stuff cranked way up, bought a Lelutka head not long ago that had some intense normal map with forehead creases turned up to max by default. Not sure if they're still doing that but yeah, I think some bodies definitely come with the specular turned on and quite high.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

10 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Bones is one thing I think SL could deal with better. I think that the bones should be a worn item, like a shape or skin, because limiting us to a human avi (as they did before) or the new bento quad-pedral-with-tail-and-wings stuff they got just .. Meh. 

   You could rig a dress to sway along with bones, but that'd require an animation that actually uses those bones and which works with the stand. We've got things like The P and some hairstyles that use a random 'non-human' bone for simulating physics and when it doesn't work with the animations your avi are using, things just end up looking kinda weird.

Do we have bones for ears and horns that could be used for animated hair? I have a ponytail I got years ago that's rigged to the butt so it wiggles when I walk. It's extra scripts though, so I don't use it much.

[Orwar]

3 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Noticed some heads and bodies come with that stuff cranked way up, bought a Lelutka head not long ago that had some intense normal map with forehead creases turned up to max by default. Not sure if they're still doing that but yeah, I think some bodies definitely come with the specular turned on and quite high.

   Out of the box, Lelutka's materials aren't very harsh - but you have the option.

   You got 4 different options, each have 2 variants for 'young' or 'mature'. The mature version has more defined wrinkles, particularly on the forehead. But the environmental settings are unaffected by choosing those, that's a separate slider. And, if someone doesn't have ALM on and click on that slider, they see no difference, and then don't reset it - so to anyone who then sees them, they'll look like some Goldinger-esque villain murdered them dead.

4 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Do we have bones for ears and horns that could be used for animated hair? I have a ponytail I got years ago that's rigged to the butt so it wiggles when I walk. It's extra scripts though, so I don't use it much.

   Nah, I don't think so - I don't know the exact list off the top of my head, but Bento gave us: separate fingers, a few facial bones, hind legs, a tail, wings. So I don't think there's any bone that 'naturally' would fall into the 'this would be a good option for hairs' category.

   But again, if you have animation an playing the bones for the hind legs, and you then sit in a chair which doesn't animate those bones, because it's designed either for the old skeleton, or because 'we didn't think about centaurs when making this animation', those bones will either be animated by your AO, or default to the 'we're not in use' animation. 

[Modulated]

Peeve: People who find ways to weaponize their own dissatisfaction.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I always thought that the (cheap) solution might be a hair 'bones' extension to the existing skeleton that function a little like the existing physics (boobs, belly, butt) bones in that they only move slightly and their action can be customized so floatier, longer hair could react more than shorter styles.

Not sure how many hair 'bones' you'd need to achieve a wide range of styles that move much like physics boobs etc do though. It's probably quite a lot to accommodate all possible hair styles.

It's NOT "cheap".

 

Skyrim mods do this already.

Skyrim uses the Havok physics engine, ( like SL ), and some years back, a mod came out that repurposed this engine's flapping flags feature into "SMP", skinned mesh physics.

You mod the game with a customised skeleton rig, for custom mesh bodies, with extra bones, for example changing the single upper chest "breathing animation" bone to 3 bones, so you can animate each boob. Then you have a bunch of scripts that check for the physics collision of the hands collision volumes with the boob collision volumes, and CALCULATE custom rotations and translates of the boob bones accordingly.

 

When you install the SMP mods they offer you installation options to choose how much lag you want, in descending order.

What do you want physics applied to.

Your character, and all NPC's

Your character, and NPC's in front of your camera

Your character, and NPC's close to you and in front of the camera

Just your character.

 

Since then SMP enabled hair has become a thing, some of the mod creators show WIP pics on their patreon pages, one "braids tied back into a ponytail" style had 36 custom bones just for the dangling braids.

 

7 hours ago, Orwar said:

Bones is one thing I think SL could deal with better. I think that the bones should be a worn item

That's basically the plan for SMP items in Skyrim, a hair or a cloak or a pair of earrings will have it's OWN custom skeleton, as well as being rigged to whatever "human bone" it's attached to.

 

6 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Do we have bones for ears and horns that could be used for animated hair?

4 Bones for ears, but "borrowing" bones like that is a bad idea, look at the FailX bodies, who "borrowed" tail bones for the built in stunt crotch, with the result that all the furries / nekos / demonesses out there who foolishly bought those bodies, found their stunt crotches turning inside out if they wore their bento tails.

 

Just as a final FYI, "flexi mesh" was a thing, in a single player PC game called Neverwinter Nights ( no not the much later MMO of the same name ), it was known as "jiggly mesh", and used officially, on stuff like baggy knee breeches, etc.

One mod however took the torso of the lead female NPC "Aribeth", in her iconic 3/4 cup steel corset armour, and added "jiggly mesh" attributes to the exposed upper boob so it didn't look like her boobs were carved from plastic, this was some 15-20 years ago.

It's not new technology, only 2 decades, so, expect the terminally broken LL implementation to be unveiled as "Nearly ready, 3rd quarter of NEXT year" at SL25B.

Edited April 1 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

It's NOT "cheap".

 

Skyrim mods do this already.

Skyrim uses the Havok physics engine, ( like SL ), and some years back, a mod came out that repurposed this engine's flapping flags feature into "SMP", skinned mesh physics.

You mod the game with a customised skeleton rig, for custom mesh bodies, with extra bones, for example changing the single upper chest "breathing animation" bone to 3 bones, so you can animate each boob. Then you have a bunch of scripts that check for the physics collision of the hands collision volumes with the boob collision volumes, and CALCULATE custom rotations and translates of the boob bones accordingly.

 

When you install the SMP mods they offer you installation options to choose how much lag you want, in descending order.

What do you want physics applied to.

Your character, and all NPC's

Your character, and NPC's in front of your camera

Your character, and NPC's close to you and in front of the camera

Just your character.

 

Since then SMP enabled hair has become a thing, some of the mod creators show WIP pics on their patreon pages, one "braids tied back into a ponytail" style had 36 custom bones just for the dangling braids.

 

That's basically the plan for SMP items in Skyrim, a hair or a cloak or a pair of earrings will have it's OWN custom skeleton, as well as being rigged to whatever "human bone" it's attached to.

 

4 Bones for ears, but "borrowing" bones like that is a bad idea, look at the FailX bodies, who "borrowed" tail bones for the built in stunt crotch, with the result that all the furries / nekos / demonesses out there who foolishly bought those bodies, found their stunt crotches turning inside out if they wore their bento tails.

 

Just as a final FYI, "flexi mesh" was a thing, in a single player PC game called Neverwinter Nights ( no not the much later MMO of the same name ), it was known as "jiggly mesh", and used officially, on stuff like baggy knee breeches, etc.

One mod however took the torso of the lead female NPC "Aribeth", in her iconic 3/4 cub steel corset armour, and added "jiggly mesh" attributes to the exposed upper boob so it didn't look like her boobs were carved from plastic, this was some 15-20 years ago.

It's not new technology, only 2 decades, so, expect the terminally broken LL implementation to be unveiled as "Nearly ready, 3rd quarter of NEXT year" at SL25B.

I honestly think they just need to make their own physics engine from the ground up, taking into consideration of what today's physics engines can do. 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I honestly think they just need to make their own physics engine from the ground up, taking into consideration of what today's physics engines can do. 

Erm...

Have you SEEN what kind of mess they make when trying to do things themselves? You WANT them to make a physics engine where tripping over somebody's animesh companion pet attachment catapults your avatar 3 km into the air, and lands you 17 regions down wind?

[Sammy Huntsman]

16 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Erm...

Have you SEEN what kind of mess they make when trying to do things themselves? You WANT them to make a physics engine where tripping over somebody's animesh companion pet attachment catapults your avatar 3 km into the air, and lands you 17 regions down wind?

Or at least get a better one. This is the Havok that morrowind used in 2004. Lol 

[Marigold Devin]

I forgot what day it was! And this didn't seem all that unlikely to me anyway. But they got me good. LOL

 

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

I forgot what day it was! And this didn't seem all that unlikely to me anyway.

It's FirstBus, ALL their promises seem unlikely...

[Emma Krokus]

7 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Erm...

Have you SEEN what kind of mess they make when trying to do things themselves? You WANT them to make a physics engine where tripping over somebody's animesh companion pet attachment catapults your avatar 3 km into the air, and lands you 17 regions down wind?

BUT this is magnificent fun... for me at least!

[AmeliaJ08]

7 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

It's NOT "cheap".

 

Skyrim mods do this already.

Skyrim uses the Havok physics engine, ( like SL ), and some years back, a mod came out that repurposed this engine's flapping flags feature into "SMP", skinned mesh physics.

You mod the game with a customised skeleton rig, for custom mesh bodies, with extra bones, for example changing the single upper chest "breathing animation" bone to 3 bones, so you can animate each boob. Then you have a bunch of scripts that check for the physics collision of the hands collision volumes with the boob collision volumes, and CALCULATE custom rotations and translates of the boob bones accordingly.

 

When you install the SMP mods they offer you installation options to choose how much lag you want, in descending order.

What do you want physics applied to.

Your character, and all NPC's

Your character, and NPC's in front of your camera

Your character, and NPC's close to you and in front of the camera

Just your character.

 

Since then SMP enabled hair has become a thing, some of the mod creators show WIP pics on their patreon pages, one "braids tied back into a ponytail" style had 36 custom bones just for the dangling braids.

 

That's basically the plan for SMP items in Skyrim, a hair or a cloak or a pair of earrings will have it's OWN custom skeleton, as well as being rigged to whatever "human bone" it's attached to.

 

4 Bones for ears, but "borrowing" bones like that is a bad idea, look at the FailX bodies, who "borrowed" tail bones for the built in stunt crotch, with the result that all the furries / nekos / demonesses out there who foolishly bought those bodies, found their stunt crotches turning inside out if they wore their bento tails.

 

Just as a final FYI, "flexi mesh" was a thing, in a single player PC game called Neverwinter Nights ( no not the much later MMO of the same name ), it was known as "jiggly mesh", and used officially, on stuff like baggy knee breeches, etc.

One mod however took the torso of the lead female NPC "Aribeth", in her iconic 3/4 cup steel corset armour, and added "jiggly mesh" attributes to the exposed upper boob so it didn't look like her boobs were carved from plastic, this was some 15-20 years ago.

It's not new technology, only 2 decades, so, expect the terminally broken LL implementation to be unveiled as "Nearly ready, 3rd quarter of NEXT year" at SL25B.

Cheap in terms of effort. 6-12 more physics bones is a lot cheaper (effort) than a proper hair physics engine.

[Sid Nagy]

One should look more around in a place called RL to see the fancy moving clothing and hair.
But be careful out there, it seems to be a bit shady place.

[Rowan Amore]

20 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

That hairstyle is super cute! No.Match is very hit or miss for me, though. I adore their punk/shaved styles and I'm thinking about picking yet another one of those up this weekend, but whenever I try to get something to match my own real texture, it's...not quite great. That's not their fault, though. It's really difficult to do.

I've been wanting to buy more Camo hair, as they really nail some of the braided/dread/loc styles I want to rock and the textures are so goooood, but then I'm back to "I want my head partially shaved tho!" Camo is EvoX only now I think, and I've gone back to my HDPro (it's not easy finding EvoX head tattoos), so that means scouting hairbases. It's rather difficult matching a non-Camo hairbase to a Camo hairstyle. Oh gawd...why is hair so harrrrd? PEEEEEEVE!

Circling back to flexi hair and curls.  Back in the day, I wore a lot of Damselfly hair.  This little snippet shows me that flexi was much better back then.  This hairstyle, from 2008 is, IMO, not bad at all.   Triangle count is not bad, complexity either.   I think the creators of today's flexi are just doing the bare minimum or have no idea how it COULD look better.  

https://gyazo.com/13aaa87cefabcbf574e53393d845ff60

[Ayashe Ninetails]

50 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Circling back to flexi hair and curls.  Back in the day, I wore a lot of Damselfly hair.  This little snippet shows me that flexi was much better back then.  This hairstyle, from 2008 is, IMO, not bad at all.   Triangle count is not bad, complexity either.   I think the creators of today's flexi are just doing the bare minimum or have no idea how it COULD look better.  

https://gyazo.com/13aaa87cefabcbf574e53393d845ff60

That's very pretty and moves well!

Flexi is difficult to do convincingly, and yeah, the older styles were often better. I have one style I kept (that I call my Whitney Houston) since it does actually still look decent and it's short enough to not cause issues. The thick volume and way the waves/curls bounce looks so good, too. Most other styles, though... the clipping and odd dragging with the floor length stuff just irks me. I see clipping in other games, too, so I know it's not something you can entirely get rid of without a lot of work, but meeeeh. 

I favor a lot of short/buzzed/shaved styles and updos these days. Braids and dreads are good, too. I mostly avoid anything long unless it's for a photo or my Alain head (he's the long-haired one of the pack), but I've also started giving him more messy updos and top buns and things because man, long hair not moving at ALL is also a peeve. 😂

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I favor a lot of short/buzzed/shaved styles and updos these days. Braids and dreads are good, too.

Yep, me too.  No worrying about hair clipping with collars and clothes.  Short is my go-to in most cases.

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Alain head (he's the long-haired one of the pack)

Is he single?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

34 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Is he single?

He just sits there and looks pretty for photos.

[Sabrina Nebula]

I don’t know if it’s a pet peeve or frustration, maybe both.

As you guys know I’m a Na’vi. The only places where I maybe meet other Na’vi are 2 roleplay regions. I’m SLT +9, I very rarely meet others like me. 
Today I didn’t even want to go anywhere because I’m alone 😭

I have human friends, but it’s different when you have someone who has the same Alien race as you do.

Meh 😔

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Peeve:

News reports that have the deeply patronising "Here's what you need to know..." thing stated in them.

* wince *

Edited April 1 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Spiffy Voxel]

45 minutes ago, Sabrina Nebula said:

I don’t know if it’s a pet peeve or frustration, maybe both.

As you guys know I’m a Na’vi. The only places where I maybe meet other Na’vi are 2 roleplay regions. I’m SLT +9, I very rarely meet others like me. 
Today I didn’t even want to go anywhere because I’m alone 😭

I have human friends, but it’s different when you have someone who has the same Alien race as you do.

Meh 😔

I feel ya. Time zone differences mean that lots of RP areas are empty when I do visit them. And many of those places don't really cater for or seem to want non-humans. This is why I don't do any RP these days.

[Spiffy Voxel]

Minor Peeve: Having store credit but only being able to use it if there's enough to cover the price of the item you want to purchase — no partial funding allowed.