superpeeve Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.

[Solar Legion]

34 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Yeah it does suck and I am on disability. I usually miss cool sales like these. And have to make a shopping list folder to know what I want at the end of the month.

Ah yep! SSI here. Sucks!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

Rant away, it's justified. P-philia makes me wish I had a gun, because those sickos really have no place in this world. Much more should be done to protect minors. P-philes get prison, kids get a lifetime of mental health issues that never completely go away.  Never will or should this be normalised. 

While I obviously share your disgust, Marigold, it's easy and pain-free to dismiss such people as "sickos." Of course they are, literally: this is a mental health issue.

The real point is in your last sentence: normalizing this kind of behaviour.

LL banned this kind of role play in 2007 in the wake of a series of very embarrassing and damaging news reports about its simulation in-world. And, indeed, as @Rowan Amorenotes, you'll find that the majority of sims and groups that host this kind of thing very clearly specify that only adult avatars, 18+ are admitted. Which, given the actual descriptions and the props available ("sexy schoolgirl" outfits, etc.) is clearly a thin fiction designed to circumvent the rules.

The issue now, especially with the recent mainstreaming of this stuff, is that it is being enabled by mainstream creators. The crop top I mentioned above is by no means the first such item I've seen in recent months coming out of sales events, and from merchants who are by no means "niche." In essence, these creators, whatever their attitudes to age pl*y may be, have seen an opportunity to make a buck from this growing market, and are pretty ok with exploiting that.

There is, of course, also the broader issue relating to the infantilization of women generally, a point Rowan has raised a few times here. "Daddy" is a trope that stands at the intersection of a pretty large  number of kinks, most of which are actually not about explicit p*dophilia, but all of which are ultimately about asserting the dominant role of the male "daddy" over the subordinate female "child." A good example is the "sugar daddy." There's a continuum here, and clearly something like a sugar daddy isn't in the same league as someone who likes having s*x with his "daughter," but they belong on the spectrum.

[Marigold Devin]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

While I obviously share your disgust, Marigold, it's easy and pain-free to dismiss such people as "sickos." Of course they are, literally: this is a mental health issue.

The real point is in your last sentence: normalizing this kind of behaviour.

LL banned this kind of role play in 2007 in the wake of a series of very embarrassing and damaging news reports about its simulation in-world. And, indeed, as @Rowan Amorenotes, you'll find that the majority of sims and groups that host this kind of thing very clearly specify that only adult avatars, 18+ are admitted. Which, given the actual descriptions and the props available ("sexy schoolgirl" outfits, etc.) is clearly a thin fiction designed to circumvent the rules.

The issue now, especially with the recent mainstreaming of this stuff, is that it is being enabled by mainstream creators. The crop top I mentioned above is by no means the first such item I've seen in recent months coming out of sales events, and from merchants who are by no means "niche." In essence, these creators, whatever their attitudes to age pl*y may be, have seen an opportunity to make a buck from this growing market, and are pretty ok with exploiting that.

There is, of course, also the broader issue relating to the infantilization of women generally, a point Rowan has raised a few times here. "Daddy" is a trope that stands at the intersection of a pretty large  number of kinks, most of which are actually not about explicit p*dophilia, but all of which are ultimately about asserting the dominant role of the male "daddy" over the subordinate female "child." A good example is the "sugar daddy." There's a continuum here, and clearly something like a sugar daddy isn't in the same league as someone who likes having s*x with his "daughter," but they belong on the spectrum.

I'm certainly not "dismissing" them as sickos. LL certainly did attempt to ban that kind of roleplay in 2007. I arrived in Second Life after the furore and the Sky News report which is still available to view somewhere, but it still goes on and on. 

And groups in world that enable this still abound. 

I take it the merchant who you saw selling the c*m***** top got reported at least. Every day Linden Lab governance team deal with a ton of reports about this. Just watching the video of the 2019 Governance Team meeting that was linked to yesterday shows the tip of the iceberg, but the governance seemed a little 'doddery' on what was acceptable and what was not, seeming to believe roleplay was not wrong, but real life imagery was. 

And I personally disagree with that. Roleplay is what a lot of paedos and killers do before they actually get out there and do it for real. 

Getting too intense about this topic on a thread though is likely to get us locked. Good luck with the exhibition you have going on 2nd December, awareness is key.

And like I said before, the more you see, the more you see. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Marigold Devin
I censored c u m s l u t , LL censored it some more.

[Syo Emerald]

In b4 hunting down every female avatar that doesn't look like an old woman. I KNOW none of you suggests that, but judgeing by how SLs nature is like and knowing that people have already put up such ridiculus witch hunts and rules on their land... this is just what it will result in.

Edit: Since I do get quite a few of the confused reactions, let me all remind you of how paranoid SL is and always was about the *****. It hasn't been that long, that any female avatar, that wasn't a 2,50m tall amazon ran the risk of getting kicked out of places, because people were so up in arms about hunting the evil age players and their child avatars. And also a few months ago we had a post exactly about what I'm talking about and half the forum made a field trip out of testing what qualities as an "adult female avatar". Don't tell me you all forgot. Because this is how SL is: A good idea spirales into something above and behond.
 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Syo Emerald

[Robin Kiyori]

9 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Ah yep! SSI here. Sucks!

Disability sucks here too. It's fortnightly instead of monthly but the amount is so laughably small that by the end of week two I have literal pennies left. And that's with living with my folks let alone trying to be independent.

 

Peeve: government bodies not knowing how much an actual person needs to live.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Robin Kiyori

[Sukubia Scarmon]

Peeve:
A shine creator STILL somehow unable to grasp that you can make Maitreya shine applier that go onto the goddamn skin since, well, the big update - which didn't happen yesterday -, forcing me to wear a tattoolayer that'd otherwise be unessesary. Got damn slowpoke can make appliers for all the new bodies, but this is apparently too much. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 hours ago, Robin Kiyori said:

Disability sucks here too. It's fortnightly instead of monthly but the amount is so laughably small that by the end of week two I have literal pennies left. And that's with living with my folks let alone trying to be independent.

 

Peeve: government bodies not knowing how much an actual person needs to live.

Yeah I know the feeling, especially since I am living with a roommate and the amount I get doesn't allow for me to live by myself. I absolutely dislike it, as I would like to have my own place and be able to be myself more. 

[Walelu Summerwind]

Every few yrs, I go to the newbie freebie shops to see if there is anything that I can modify. Seems like everytime I venture out, theres always a naked guy with a huge freenis IMing me wanting to 'do the sex'. It's a peeve.. but also pretty funny.

[Marigold Devin]

10 minutes ago, Walelu Summerwind said:

Every few yrs, I go to the newbie freebie shops to see if there is anything that I can modify. Seems like everytime I venture out, theres always a naked guy with a huge freenis IMing me wanting to 'do the sex'. It's a peeve.. but also pretty funny.

It's definitely long overdue for me to dust off my Kiss Me Deadly HUD and knock some of those b*ggers out methinks. (mwah-ha-ha)

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

I'm certainly not "dismissing" them as sickos. LL certainly did attempt to ban that kind of roleplay in 2007. I arrived in Second Life after the furore and the Sky News report which is still available to view somewhere, but it still goes on and on. 

And groups in world that enable this still abound. 

I take it the merchant who you saw selling the c*m***** top got reported at least. Every day Linden Lab governance team deal with a ton of reports about this. Just watching the video of the 2019 Governance Team meeting that was linked to yesterday shows the tip of the iceberg, but the governance seemed a little 'doddery' on what was acceptable and what was not, seeming to believe roleplay was not wrong, but real life imagery was. 

And I personally disagree with that. Roleplay is what a lot of paedos and killers do before they actually get out there and do it for real. 

Getting too intense about this topic on a thread though is likely to get us locked. Good luck with the exhibition you have going on 2nd December, awareness is key.

And like I said before, the more you see, the more you see. 

The very existence of this stuff is literal proof that bans and censorship don't work: this material exists as a means of circumventing an existing ban by LL.

So, no, I didn't AR it. Reporting this type of material would be a 24/7 game of Whack-a-Mole in any case, it's everywhere. A few months ago, I unfollowed a member of this forum on Flickr because she posted a pic of herself wearing a "Choke Me Daddy" tee.

LL won't do a thing about this kind of material: they have neither the resources nor, I suspect, the inclination to sweep the grid for edge-casing materials like this.

In addition to which, the top in question is pretty small potatoes. Last week, while researching for my exhibition, I visited a dolcet sim where you can impale, disembowel, and slow-cook your girlfriend, all the while sexually assaulting her. It was a bit of a blast from the past, really: this sim has been in SL longer than I have; it's actually, I am pretty sure, the last in-world place that I did AR for content, back in 2009.

It's still there. With nice new mesh equipment too.

So, yes. ARs are pointless: they don't work. Censorship and bans mostly drive things underground, where you can't even monitor them, or produce imaginative work-arounds like the current "Daddy / Babygirl" craze.

The answer, insofar as there is one, lies in discussion, awareness, and education. It's not always true that sunlight is the best antiseptic, but, if we continue to talk about it, it is possible to shift attitudes and bring about change.

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

In b4 hunting down every female avatar that doesn't look like an old woman. I KNOW none of you suggests that, but judgeing by how SLs nature is like and knowing that people have already put up such ridiculus witch hunts and rules on their land... this is just what it will result in.

Very serious question, Syo: what do you prescribe?

We shouldn't talk about this kind of thing because it produces over-reactions? I'll agree: it often does, and grabbing our pitchforks and torches is probably not the best solution.

But I've too often run across the "don't make noise because you'll upset the apple cart" response to, well, just about anything that challenges the status quo.

So, what do we do? Hold our noses, whistle loudly, and pretend we don't see?

[Marigold Devin]

3 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

In b4 hunting down every female avatar that doesn't look like an old woman. I KNOW none of you suggests that, but judgeing by how SLs nature is like and knowing that people have already put up such ridiculus witch hunts and rules on their land... this is just what it will result in.

Edit: Since I do get quite a few of the confused reactions, let me all remind you of how paranoid SL is and always was about the *****. It hasn't been that long, that any female avatar, that wasn't a 2,50m tall amazon ran the risk of getting kicked out of places, because people were so up in arms about hunting the evil age players and their child avatars. And also a few months ago we had a post exactly about what I'm talking about and half the forum made a field trip out of testing what qualities as an "adult female avatar". Don't tell me you all forgot. Because this is how SL is: A good idea spirales into something above and behond.
 

Thanks for the edit, Syo, and the clarification. 

And you're right, and this thread is not the place for such a heavy discussion as Scylla would like. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

4 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

Thanks for the edit, Syo, and the clarification. 

And you're right, and this thread is not the place for such a heavy discussion as Scylla would like. 

I think the only thing that bugs me about the topic, is that naturally I have a younger-looking face in RL and I am 32 and I look like I am in my late teens. So I mean genetics does play a big role in that. However, the need for the bobblehead, big-eyed, drooly and snotty faces, on an adult body. That always seems to have big boobs and butts. I kinda am creeped out about that. You gotta a literal infant head on an adult body. 

[Marigold Devin]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Very serious question, Syo: what do you prescribe?

We shouldn't talk about this kind of thing because it produces over-reactions? I'll agree: it often does, and grabbing our pitchforks and torches is probably not the best solution.

But I've too often run across the "don't make noise because you'll upset the apple cart" response to, well, just about anything that challenges the status quo.

So, what do we do? Hold our noses, whistle loudly, and pretend we don't see?

 

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The very existence of this stuff is literal proof that bans and censorship don't work: this material exists as a means of circumventing an existing ban by LL.

So, no, I didn't AR it. Reporting this type of material would be a 24/7 game of Whack-a-Mole in any case, it's everywhere. A few months ago, I unfollowed a member of this forum on Flickr because she posted a pic of herself wearing a "Choke Me Daddy" tee.

LL won't do a thing about this kind of material: they have neither the resources nor, I suspect, the inclination to sweep the grid for edge-casing materials like this.

In addition to which, the top in question is pretty small potatoes. Last week, while researching for my exhibition, I visited a dolcet sim where you can impale, disembowel, and slow-cook your girlfriend, all the while sexually assaulting her. It was a bit of a blast from the past, really: this sim has been in SL longer than I have; it's actually, I am pretty sure, the last in-world place that I did AR for content, back in 2009.

It's still there. With nice new mesh equipment too.

So, yes. ARs are pointless: they don't work. Censorship and bans mostly drive things underground, where you can't even monitor them, or produce imaginative work-arounds like the current "Daddy / Babygirl" craze.

The answer, insofar as there is one, lies in discussion, awareness, and education. It's not always true that sunlight is the best antiseptic, but, if we continue to talk about it, it is possible to shift attitudes and bring about change.

 

This isn't the right thread for deep discussions about the rules and regulations set by Linden Lab, or our deep disgust for certain illegal/immoral activities. I don't want to see this thread be locked.

Nor do I want you to feel upset in your belief, perhaps, that people here are being complacent, turning a blind eye to stuff. Many are not, but they/we don't go round flying a great big banner displaying our intentions.  I appreciate you feeling the need to do what you do. I had a private message half-written to you but felt I would be misunderstood and my efforts would be wasted or misconstrued. 

You are wonderful, Scylla, but when you get your campaign head on and get an idea into your head that other people are disagreeing with you in some way, you do get a bit 'nowty' as we say in Yorkshire, and then it becomes personal. 

It is a shame The Avastar no longer is in publication, because you would have been an ideal reporter for them.  They liked very much to run a campaign and get things changed for the better in Second Life, as well as all the fluffy stuff they published such as avatar of the week and the quite amusing (but sometimes nerve-touching) agony aunt page.  

I really hope you have a lot of success with your exhibition. I know you will have put your heart and soul into it, as you do with everything, and I do greatly admire you for remaining so driven.

[Syo Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Very serious question, Syo: what do you prescribe?

We shouldn't talk about this kind of thing because it produces over-reactions? I'll agree: it often does, and grabbing our pitchforks and torches is probably not the best solution.

But I've too often run across the "don't make noise because you'll upset the apple cart" response to, well, just about anything that challenges the status quo.

So, what do we do? Hold our noses, whistle loudly, and pretend we don't see?

Well, personally I would love if (on the internet) people would resume to sticking to definitions of words, because not doing so muddies the water and makes words pointless, because now they can have any meaning you want them to have. But thats another issue in itself...

While I get the disgust about certain trends, I really don't get what the end goal is here. I get wanting to vent and rant a bit, because thats what this thread is for, but this part of the discussion does not seem to be just that (or maybe I'm just reading too much into that).

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

Nor do I want you to feel upset in your belief, perhaps, that people here are being complacent, turning a blind eye to stuff. Many are not, but they/we don't go round flying a great big banner displaying our intentions.  I appreciate you feeling the need to do what you do. I had a private message half-written to you but felt I would be misunderstood and my efforts would be wasted or misconstrued.

I don't think it has anything to do with complacency at all, people call them out and they get attacked for body shaming. That is the issue, and then you have that person's squad who digs in on you, that in turn, turns into you basically an empty discussion. With no possible way of trying to actually have a decent discussion. 

[Marigold Devin]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I don't think it has anything to do with complacency at all, people call them out and they get attacked for body shaming. That is the issue, and then you have that person's squad who digs in on you, that in turn, turns into you basically an empty discussion. With no possible way of trying to actually have a decent discussion. 

There will always be crows against cranes. 

And again, this is certainly not the right place for a deep and meaningful discussion about the abhorrent content that is allowed to continue in Second Life. Those that participate in it, for example, obviously don't find it abhorrent, and if it were illegal to roleplay it, then Linden Lab would surely ban it as well as they've banned gambling (although Skills Gaming to me is still gambling - and jolly enjoyable it is too! - that's my vice I guess).  

Now I've said that, that makes me sound like I am condoning certain activities in Second Life, and I really am not, and sometimes it is just so very hard to be understood.

 

[Dyna Mole]

This is starting to sound like more than a peeve ...

[Scylla Rhiadra]

30 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

You are wonderful, Scylla, but when you get your campaign head on and get an idea into your head that other people are disagreeing with you in some way, you do get a bit 'nowty' as we say in Yorkshire, and then it becomes personal.

I think maybe you are misreading my tone, Marigold -- or perhaps that's my fault, or the result of my reputation here.

I'm not on a crusade -- at least, not here on the forum. I didn't actually start this discussion: I responded to a post by someone else, which led to further posts by others. I'm not accusing others of complacency: there's an endless supply of things to be outraged about here and in RL, and one can only take in and respond to so much. I get that.

But I do see value in shedding a bit of light occasionally on things that tend to fly under the radar. Being a little noisy is one of the ways things change: it's how the civil rights movement, women's liberation, and equal rights for the LGBTQ+ community advanced. It's the point behind #MeToo and BLM. It's why the trans community is under attack now for trans rights activism by people like Dave Chappelle and JK Rowling: because they are being uppity and noisy about their rights.

Being noisy creates discomfort. It's supposed to create discomfort. That's how it works: it compels people to confront and think about their assumptions, and question the status quo.

I actually think the discussion here is entirely in keeping with the themes of a thread about "peeves," but I'm pretty sure that the mods here will see it as either unwanted controversy and contention, or at least as a "derail" of a thread mostly about annoying merchants and people in clubs. So, I've said my piece.

28 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

While I get the disgust about certain trends, I really don't get what the end goal is here. I get wanting to vent and rant a bit, because thats what this thread is for, but this part of the discussion does not seem to be just that (or maybe I'm just reading too much into that).

See my response to Marigold, above, Syo.

 

ETA: Thank you for that timely confirmation, @Dyna Mole. I'll be good now. 🙂

Edited November 28, 2021 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Madelaine McMasters]

54 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

grabbing our pitchforks and torches is probably not the best solution.

 Maybe not, but they'll do in a pinch...

[Luna Bliss]

Before moving on, I have a question, and I am peeved because I don't know what to do.

A couple of these sexualized babies with obscene texts on their shirts landed in the park under my store being redesigned atm. Am I obligated to report them? And might I be accused of age-play on my land if I do nothing? 

This phenomenon is growing larger, and it's going to give SL an even worse reputation if nothing is done to minimize it.

I believe it's a fad now for many that has grown beyond those who have a need to replay past traumas via abusing others or re-abusing themselves. It is through education that some of those who are more into this behavior as a fad might become aware of it's destructive nature and stop.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Nick0678]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Before moving on, I have a question, and I am peeved because I don't know what to do.

A couple of these sexualized babies with obscene texts on their shirts landed in the park under my store being redesigned atm. Am I obligated to report them? And might I be accused of age-play on my land if I do nothing? 

This phenomenon is growing larger, and it's going to give SL an even worse reputation if nothing is done to minimize it.

I believe it's a fad now for many that has grown beyond those who have a need to replay past traumas via abusing others or re-abusing themselves. It is through education that some of those who are more into this behavior as a fad might become aware it's destructive nature and stop.

You should AReport whatever annoys you in SL and also mute and ban them from lands that you own. Governance will decide about the rest.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

You should

I want to know if it's illegal though.

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Governance will decide about the rest.

 

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I want to know if it's illegal though.

Read up at Nick's response. The last thing we need resident's to decide is if something is illegal or not. That is LL job. Let them do it.

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I want to know if it's illegal though.

Unfortunately, IMO, it's not illegal to LOOK and DRESS like that out and about.  Engaging in sexual activity while looking like that should, once again IMO, be reported and sorted out by governance.  I'd definitely ban them, though.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Rowan Amore