If you use an avatar of a gender you are not, are you good at portraying that gender?

[Lewis Luminos]

To answer the question in the title. I'm actually not sure, but whether I am or not, it wouldn't change the way I behave.

I'm a transgender man in RL, and I transitioned late in life, so I lived as a woman (as best I could) for the first 40 years of my life. I really don't think I was very good at being a woman, and I was desperately unhappy. 

SL played a huge part in my transition. I joined with my first account in 2006, about a year before I started giving serious consideraiton to transition. Some of the people I met here gave me the confidence and support I needed to take those early steps. This account has been my main one since 2008. I started transition in 2010, and that same year I made Indra, my first female alt, but I felt uncomfortable using her. Once my transition was finished, and I felt settled, then it became less uncomfortable, and now I use my two girl accounts more than I use my main. It sounds odd, but I think during that in-between phase, I wasn't secure enough in my self identity. I felt like, "Am I trans enough, if I use a female avatar?" Now I am, and I don't feel any more like having a female alt invalidates me in any way. 

I don't change my behaviour or the way I talk whether I'm logged in as Lewis or Indra or Tammi. Have a conversation with any of us and you're having a conversation with me, the man at the keyboard, just the same as though you were in this room with me.  Do my girls "fool" others? Maybe? I think Indra sometimes does and Tammi (at least sometimes) doesn't, but that's probably due to her body shape than anything else.   Neither profile states my RL gender, but if asked, or if someone suggests a dance or something of that sort, I will tell them first.

On 10/1/2022 at 8:09 AM, ValKalAstra said:

At a guess: The RL gender is almost impossible to figure out *unless* people paradoxically start to act like how they think a gender acts (or often in adult sims: how they think a gender should act).

Doing that will often push things into parody and then become noticeable. Then again, even in that case I don't really care and just take it as someone exploring their gender. The only time I do start caring is when said person drifts so far into parody and stereotypes it becomes discriminatory.

This sort of thing happens in RL transgender circles too, especially with younger people who are pre-transition or just starting. You see young trans guys barely into their twenties, strutting about and acting like a macho gangster, because until they've been on testosterone for a couple of years, it's often the only way they have to demonstrate their gender. Once the testosterone effects kick in, that behaviour usually stops.

On 10/1/2022 at 4:59 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, yes!

But this is the origin of the extremely questionable belief, still held by many, that a hypersexualized or hyperfeminine avatar must, of course, be run by a man in RL.

I know lots of RL women who are hypersexualized and hyperfeminine. It's a thing.

Oh yes, my daughter is like that, despite never having a feminine role-model in either myself or her father. Yet, she somehow turned into the girliest girl I've ever met. 

Anyway - if the belief is held that a hyper-feminine avatar must be run by a man, do they also hold that a hyper-masculine avatar must be run by a woman? Because I see the exact opposite there; most male avatars run by women are true gentlemen; a quality lacking in many male avatars run by men. I think I'm the same (and I wonder sometimes if other women think I'm a woman IRL) and I'm guessing it's because I've got the same background of being raised as a girl and living four decades in a world where I was percieved as being female and treated accordingly. It leaves a sour taste in the mouth over traditional masculinity.

I have a part of my profile that says this: 

Quote

I respect others' avatars as they choose to present themselves, whether that matches RL or not is irrelevent to me.

It makes no difference to me what gender my SL friends are in RL. If someone presents as a woman, I'll treat them as a woman, and vice versa. Then again, I don't think even that is much different. I treat people with equal respect whatever their gender.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Lewis Luminos

[Cate Foulsbane]

6 hours ago, GoSpeed Racer said:

*pulls Cate's finger*

Yep, you can bear witness, GO.

[Cate Foulsbane]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

My college team, the Texas A&M Aggies

Ah, my sis-in-law went there for her Masters. She was brainy so no more Aggie jokes from my side of the family. (My father went to SMU.)

[Cate Foulsbane]

33 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

I really don't think I was very good at being a woman, and I was desperately unhappy. 

Thank you for sharing this, Lewis, and I SO hope the unhappiness is long gone now. Hugs!

 

[Gabriele Graves]

11 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Giggling is just one of those things I associate men doing when using a female avatar.   Giggling during sex play, sure.  I can go with that if I'm being tickled.  It's those female avatars that giggle after almost everything they say that makes me wonder who's behind the avatar.  Not one single female I've known over the years in SL has /me giggles.   They generally just LOL.

*gigglesnort* just drives me up the wall.

[Gabriele Graves]

14 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

If you quote someone, and then express a strong contrary opinion, it's generally considered an attack on that person. I saw your response to Solar in that light, so it's not that they're the only one. If you meant your post to be about the world in general, you should have been clearer.

Shoot! I didn't get the memo.  Oh well, I prefer it when people ask me "Is that an attack" and then at least I know I need to clarify...or not 🤥

I like my strong opinions just to be considered my strong opinions and nothing else.  Is that weird?

[Lewis Luminos]

8 hours ago, Cate Foulsbane said:

Thank you for sharing this, Lewis, and I SO hope the unhappiness is long gone now. Hugs!

 

It is; it was gone within 3 months of starting testosterone. It had such a profoundly positive effect on my mood, much more than I was expecting. I was able to experience how it felt to be not-depressed for the first time in my life. I didn't even realised I'd been depressed for so long until it was gone.

 

[Paul Hexem]

21 hours ago, Cinos Field said:

I ask about portraying that gender. How does one do it convincingly?

 

18 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

If you quote someone, and then express a strong contrary opinion, it's generally considered an attack on that person.

... Is not.

[KrystalKandy]

On 10/2/2022 at 9:23 AM, Rowan Amore said:

Giggling, to me, is what children do.  When women use the /me giggles in SL, it makes me cringe.  Men and women, again in my opinion, laugh, chuckle, guffaw, chortle and at this time of year, cackle.

I cackle all year round! 

[EliseAnne85]

On 10/1/2022 at 8:40 AM, Modulated said:

The whole point of these kinds of threads elude me...Who cares? Just do you.

This is it in a nutshell and even if you are any other kind of avi, at the heart of it, just be yourself.  

I haven't read the whole thread yet so someone may have already said this:  I think people may ask this question because of that thing called "stage fright".  Some may feel like they have to actually "act" and/or play a part.

I have never been another gender on SL but if I were I'd be a model and make clothes for him but I think I might have a bit of stage fright having a go at being a gender I am not.  I have stage fright.  I've had it since I was a child and the teacher picked me in 2nd grade to be Cinderella for a school play and I cried and cried and cried before the performance.  I was hysterical; my parents could barely calm me down.   It was horrible.  The play finally did go on, though.  Happy ending to my story but I don't even remember how I remembered any of my lines I had such terrible stage fright.

[Annalise Evergarden]

I'd like to think i'm the same in either gender, but I could be very  wrong too, I have no perspective but my own.

[Lindal Kidd]

20 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

 

... Is not.

Stop attacking meeeee!

[Robin Kiyori]

Im non binary, my avatar is non binary and even before I even realised I was,  I never  understood gender roles. How do you "act" a gender when it's  just..something you are? My little autistic self just never understood that. Even when I was very stereotypically  girly I still liked "boy things" like video games, comics, etc.

Even to this day gender roles feel fake. So when I have binary gender avatars for roleplay purposes, it's personailty first.

And out of character, I am just me, regardless of avatar.

[Anna Nova]

On 10/2/2022 at 10:49 AM, Cinos Field said:

...

2) Curse a lot, use slang (there's some truth to this one, as a linguist, women do tend to speak a lot more formally)

...

That's actually a fascinating insight.  Assume for the moment that we evolved as a species of running killer apes on the plains of north Africa (one of the current theories), running down faster prey by stamina, young males (expendable genetically) doing the last sprinty bit and the actual killing.  Then it makes sense for (young) males to develop fast effective comms for that last bit - the battle bit, but the women who followed along had to keep the tribal lore intact...

It's my favorite theory, but it is just a theory.

[cunomar]

I lol in absence of body language and facial expression , just to take the bite out of my words or indicate that my words are coming in a chilled not really caring manner .

When something genuinely makes me laugh i will respond along the lines of haha thats brilliant .

[VaelFaye]

Vael Faye chortles and wonders briefly what Orwar’s take on all this would be. 
 

🤔

[Coffee Pancake]

6 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

That's actually a fascinating insight.

That in my experience at least, is utter BS.

Women are absolutely not more prim and proper.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

That's actually a fascinating insight.  Assume for the moment that we evolved as a species of running killer apes on the plains of north Africa (one of the current theories), running down faster prey by stamina, young males (expendable genetically) doing the last sprinty bit and the actual killing.  Then it makes sense for (young) males to develop fast effective comms for that last bit - the battle bit, but the women who followed along had to keep the tribal lore intact...

It's my favorite theory, but it is just a theory.

I always wonder about this kind of evolutionary approach to socially learned behaviours. Humans were 'killer apes" (if they were that at all) hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of years ago (and the evidence I've seen most suggests scavengers) . . . we've come rather a long way since then, and about 99.9% of how we behave we've learned since then. The evolutionary advantaged (if they are that) accrued from this passed a looooooong time ago.

[Anna Nova]

31 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That in my experience at least, is utter BS.

Women are absolutely not more prim and proper.

No, but they tend to talk more sense, and whole lot less shorthand.

[Anna Nova]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I always wonder about this kind of evolutionary approach to socially learned behaviours. Humans were 'killer apes" (if they were that at all) hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of years ago (and the evidence I've seen most suggests scavengers) . . . we've come rather a long way since then, and about 99.9% of how we behave we've learned since then. The evolutionary advantaged (if they are that) accrued from this passed a looooooong time ago.

My experience of Humans differs from yours then.  I don't see any changes in fundamental behaviour since pre-historic times.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Anna Nova said:

My experience of Humans differs from yours then.  I don't see any changes in fundamental behaviour since pre-historic times.

And you base that comparison on a personal knowledge of . . . both?

If you're hanging out with "killer apes," can I respectfully suggest it's time to make some new friends?

[Love Zhaoying]

"War" is when we revert to "killer ape" status.

Not taking it back! I said it!

[diamond Marchant]

I would like to donate this PhD dissertation title…

Testosterone and Estrogen in the Metaverse: Does it matter?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

59 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That in my experience at least, is utter BS.

Women are absolutely not more prim and proper.

We can be pretty vile, honestly.

Source - public restrooms. 😳😂

On the cursing/slang front, I'm pretty much a female Samuel L. Jackson. It takes effort to form full sentences without extra...seasoning. 😇

 

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I would like to donate this PhD dissertation title…

Testosterone and Estrogen in the Metaverse: Does it matter?

Thank you for signing your Donor Card!