If you use an avatar of a gender you are not, are you good at portraying that gender?

[Modulated]

The whole point of these kinds of threads elude me...Who cares? Just do you.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Cate Foulsbane said:

Age related..hmm. Interesting. My parents, Americans raised between 1920 and 1940, lived their lives in what I consider to be a narrow cultural bind. Mom did woman things,, Dad did man things. Women shopped,, men paid for the shopping but didn't like doing it, etc. My generation, raised between 1940 and 1960, seem to be a bit more diverse...step outside the lines a bit more so to speak. My partner, in his mid sixties now, loves to shop. I know other men of the more modern generation who love to shop. I love to shop in SL but despise it in RL.. I dunno...gender roles are stupid and confining and I don't like them.

Indeed. How can you tell someone is a woman?

By the fact that she's getting paid 82% of what her male colleagues with the same job and qualifications are getting paid.

The distinction between socialized behaviours and distinctions, on the one hand, and innate ones is pretty important. The socialized ones are becoming less and less important, and I have some pretty serious doubts about the innate ones.

[Cate Foulsbane]

5 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

and has never been prepared for menopause.

I was intellectually prepared for menopause but, damn, when it became reality it shocked the living crap out of me! Mood swings? Yeah, but men have those, too. 

[Cate Foulsbane]

4 minutes ago, Modulated said:

The whole point of these kinds of threads elude me...Who cares? Just do you.

Point? Education? Entertainment? You read it, at least part of it...why?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Modulated said:

The whole point of these kinds of threads elude me...Who cares? Just do you.

I think most of us would agree with this.

The existence of "voice-authenticated" groups (which almost invariably are about "proving" one is a woman), and the moral panic that not infrequently ensues when someone discovers, or even just suspects, that a friend or lover is representing a different gender in-world, suggests that a great many in SL think otherwise.

[CaerolleClaudel]

13 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

things like emoticons or more "gushing" chat tended to be used by men who were trying to pass as women, rather than reflecting how women actually talk

Wow, I guess people who do not directly interact with me IRL tend to think of me as a man, lol. I love the crap outta emojis (and emoticons if emojis are not available, boo hiss), and even use them in my emails at work. 😄😄😄 (Oh no, just confirmed I am a DUDE!! *giggles*)

NOTE: J-O-K-I-N-G OF COURSE!! I know what you mean, just funny wrt me, to me.

[CaerolleClaudel]

5 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I never say it when it happens, but there have been a few people on the forum whom I suspected were gender bending and I turned out to be right.

Guesses on request?

And wow, my photo looks soooo tired compared with the wired ones I see people using now!! 😳

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Wow, I guess people who do not directly interact with me IRL tend to think of me as a man, lol. I love the crap outta emojis (and emoticons if emojis are not available, boo hiss), and even use them in my emails at work. 😄😄😄 (Oh no, just confirmed I am a DUDE!! *giggles*)

NOTE: J-O-K-I-N-G OF COURSE!! I know what you mean, just funny wrt me, to me.

Well, yes!

But this is the origin of the extremely questionable belief, still held by many, that a hypersexualized or hyperfeminine avatar must, of course, be run by a man in RL.

I know lots of RL women who are hypersexualized and hyperfeminine. It's a thing.

[Solar Legion]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

(quote has been modified, modifications are colored differently)

I think most of us would agree with this.

The existence of "voice-authenticated" groups (which almost invariably are about "proving" one is a woman), and the moral panic that not infrequently ensues when someone discovers, or even just suspects, that a friend or lover is representing a different gender in-world, suggests that a great many in SL think otherwise are absolutely insecure about their sexuality (to start with).

Fixed it for you.

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, yes!

But this is the origin of the extremely questionable belief, still held by many, that a hypersexualized or hyperfeminine avatar must, of course, be run by a man in RL.

I know lots of RL women who are hypersexualized and hyperfeminine. It's a thing.

When I was actively in-world, I knew a lot of women who claimed they could tell with 99% accuracy when women avis were fronted by men. Once-upon-a-time I would have mostly agreed with them, esp at the places I frequented. The biggest clue: always wanted...hmmm, probably cannot say it here, do not want to get the thread locked on you guys. Anyone who is curious is free to DM me though...

[CaerolleClaudel]

4 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Guesses on request?

And wow, my photo looks soooo tired compared with the wired ones I see people using now!! 😳

Perhaps I should just use a RL photo? Or is that frowned on, or even forbidden??? 🤔

[Gabriele Graves]

I don't care what gender the RL person is or what type of avatar they use.  It's how they conduct themselves that matters.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Solar Legion]

Now on the main thrust of the topic .... All things considered one could say that the bulk of my time in Second Life has been 'pretending' to be a representation I simply am not. all thanks to being a bit incomplete myself.

Now? Especially coming up on the year mark for my treatment? being "myself" in SL is a bit more complicated. The places I frequent will know me for who I am and most will not mistake me for either Male or Female. Places that are new to me?

*sighs softly*

I have to decide right now on presenting as the Femme Formed Androgyne or presenting as masculine.

[Brightstar7777]

29 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

I have to decide right now on presenting as the Femme Formed Androgyne or presenting as masculine.

In what world? When did Second Life (of all things) become a stronghold of cisgender cultural strangulation? That's antithetical to the SL I know, and it's antithetical to all sorts of fandoms and cultures which take a more universal look at what it means to be anthropogenic.  

People need to stop sipping the divisive meta kool-aid of cisgender culture, but they can't because they cannot break free of misogynistic oppression, seemingly blind even if you wave a beacon of light in the faces for months or years. It doesn't get past the blinders or bindings that imprison them to a dark corner of the omniverse.

Seriously, get over yourselves and pull your heads out of your arses. The way that you insist that your debate is the only meaningful one, the only one worth having, is utterly offensive to nature and basically the culture of almost everyone who isn't a boomer with one foot in the grave. Your pretend ignorance is inexcusable in 2022 and it is reasonable for people to interpret it as being both degrading in intent and purpose, whether or not you consciously realize why that is or understand your role in the bigger picture.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Brightstar7777

[Solar Legion]

7 minutes ago, Brightstar7777 said:

In what world? When did Second Life (of all things) become a stronghold of cisgender cultural strangulation? That's antithetical to the SL I know, and it's antithetical to all sorts of fandoms and cultures which take a more universal look at what it means to be anthropogenic.  

People need to stop sipping the divisive meta kool-aid of cisgender culture, but they can't because they cannot break free of misogynistic oppression, seemingly blind even if you wave a beacon of light in the faces for months or years. It doesn't get past the blinders or bindings that imprison them to a dark corner of the omniverse.

Seriously, get over yourselves and pull your heads out of your arses. The way that you insist that your debate is the only meaningful one, the only one worth having, is utterly offensive to nature and basically the culture of almost everyone who isn't a boomer with one foot in the grave. Your pretend ignorance is inexcusable in 2022 and it is reasonable for people to interpret it as being both degrading in intent and purpose, whether or not you consciously realize why that is or understand your role in the bigger picture.

Intended or not .... Way to go on the attack over someone actually being careful to avoid unwanted advances or harassment.

Not going to bother responding any further in depth here because quite frankly .... To say all I'd like to say would be a gross violation of the Forum Guidelines.

I will leave it with this and then take my usual approach to such unwarranted/misplaced things: You are insulated.

[Madelaine McMasters]

7 hours ago, Cate Foulsbane said:

Age related..hmm. Interesting. My parents, Americans raised between 1920 and 1940, lived their lives in what I consider to be a narrow cultural bind. Mom did woman things,, Dad did man things. Women shopped,, men paid for the shopping but didn't like doing it, etc. My generation, raised between 1940 and 1960, seem to be a bit more diverse...step outside the lines a bit more so to speak. My partner, in his mid sixties now, loves to shop. I know other men of the more modern generation who love to shop. I love to shop in SL but despise it in RL.. I dunno...gender roles are stupid and confining and I don't like them.

Curiously, my parents are from that same era. Dad was born in 1920, Mom in 1928. Mom was one of 14 kids. The 10 girls were divided into two crews, the house crew (4) and the barn crew (6). Mom was a barn girl doing barn stuff, like welding back parts that fell off things, digging (by hand and with machines), and taking cows (on which she placed huge pretty bows) to date bulls. You get the idea.

Dad grew up with his widowed grandfather. He cooked, washed and repaired clothing, fixed anything that broke around the house, and did whatever was necessary to make sure grandpa could focus on his job, which put food (which Dad shopped for) on the table for both of them. Dad went off to the Navy at age 16, Mom moved to the city when she was 18. Each then took roles more associated with their genders.

By the time they finally figured out how to have a kid, in 1970, they'd pretty much erased any hint of gender specific roles. Because I was a little terror, they ended up home schooling me. I weld, sew, garden, cook, shop, fix whatever breaks. I wear pretty sundresses with steel toed work boots, because that's both practical (a flowy sundress is almost a wheel barrow) and comfy. I do this all with zero consideration for society's expectations for my gender. I did glam up during my adolescence and early adulthood, wearing high heels, trying lipstick, and marrying a boy. That didn't stick.

I was raised in a world where who I am isn't determined by how I look or act so much as what I do. To paraphrase Whitman, I contain multitudes, I do everything.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters
The endless quest for correct spelling.

[Brightstar7777]

2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Intended or not .... Way to go on the attack over someone actually being careful to avoid unwanted advances or harassment.

Not going to bother responding any further in depth here because quite frankly .... To say all I'd like to say would be a gross violation of the Forum Guidelines.

I will leave it with this and then take my usual approach to such unwarranted/misplaced things: You are insulated.

That wasn't addressed to anyone specific, your offense serves a functional purpose-- to be a ruse and to misdirect and wrongfully project still further harms upon the innocent and vulnerable. Please, none of us were born yesterday and this certainly is not our first rodeo.

[Solar Legion]

Dig in deeper then and pretend to be in the right/correct.

When your world comes crashing down, do not blame anyone but yourself.

I'll not be participating further.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Solar Legion

[Brightstar7777]

4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Dig in deeper then and pretend to be in the right/correct.

When your world comes crashing down, do not blame anyone but yourself.

I'll not be participating further.

[Amina Sopwith]

1 hour ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Guesses on request?

I might be prepared to talk about it in IM but for obvious reasons it wouldn't be public! 

[CaerolleClaudel]

5 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I might be prepared to talk about it in IM but for obvious reasons it wouldn't be public! 

I meant me, not anyone else, lol. I do not know that I have interacted with you enough for you to have a read, though. But if you do, would love to hear it here or in DM. I am not really emotionally invested in the answer, so don’t worry. Just bemused, lol. And do not feel pressured to answer, of course!! If you would rather not, again, not at all emotionally invested in whether you do or not. Just curious. 🤗

[Love Zhaoying]

The original post / topic question is delightfully..naive?

Most who've been in the Forums long, probably have noticed that many, many users admit to either portraying a "different gender" on their Main avatar / accounts, or their Alts.

If all these people admittedly portraying a "different gender" were not "good at" it, probably they wouldn't be doing it.

Could be another thread that's just innocently trying to get discussion going..? (Versus the threads nefariously trying to get discussion going.)

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The original post / topic question is delightfully..naive?

Most who've been in the Forums long, probably have noticed that many, many users admit to either portraying a "different gender" on their Main avatar / accounts, or their Alts.

If all these people admittedly portraying a "different gender" were not "good at" it, probably they wouldn't be doing it.

Could be another thread that's just innocently trying to get discussion going..? (Versus the threads nefariously trying to get discussion going.)

My take is that the question was a sincere one based on a genuine feeling that I will not name, whether I am right or wrong, as the OP did not state the feelings behind the question (IIRC).

However, if nothing else I love the take that @Scylla Rhiadra had on the more generalized context (if I understand her correctly) of gender essentialism and how it is expressed, read, and policed. 

FWIW

[Amina Sopwith]

8 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I meant me, not anyone else, lol. I do not know that I have interacted with you enough for you to have a read, though. But if you do, would love to hear it here or in DM. I am not really emotionally invested in the answer, so don’t worry. Just bemused, lol. And do not feel pressured to answer, of course!! If you would rather not, again, not at all emotionally invested in whether you do or not. Just curious. 🤗

I'll be honest. With the greatest of respect, as much as I enjoy your posts whenever I've read them, I haven't been paying close enough attention to form a view on it. It's not something that I regularly wonder about or try to suss when interacting with people....I see how they're presenting and wish to be seen and just go with it. It's just that sometimes someone will say something that makes me wonder, or they consistently come across in a certain way over time. I certainly don't claim to be infallible! 

I suppose I still only have it on trust that the people who claim to be gender bending are telling the truth. But when they did, I was inclined to believe them because it explained a few things and my antennae had already been twitching.

 

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I'll be honest. With the greatest of respect, as much as I enjoy your posts whenever I've read them, I haven't been paying close enough attention to form a view on it. It's not something that I regularly wonder about or try to suss when interacting with people....I see how they're presenting and wish to be seen and just go with it. It's just that sometimes someone will say something that makes me wonder, or they consistently come across in a certain way over time. I certainly don't claim to be infallible! 

I suppose I still only have it on trust that the people who claim to be gender bending are telling the truth. But when they did, I was inclined to believe them because it explained a few things and my antennae had already been twitching.

 

That’s fair! Sorry if I put you on the spot. I feel that you likely have a much better idea about Forum regulars than you would with someone like me whose participation is extremely episodic, lol.