Why SL is been left out of the current metaverse hype?

[diamond Marchant]

"Why SL is been left out of the current metaverse hype?"

This is really a question about how media works.

If we time travel to 2047, it is almost certain that none of the currently hyped companies will be the dominant metaverse player, whatever that even means. (Anybody remember a "pen-computing" company of 90s called Go - they were gonna liberate us from the mouse - they didnt anticipate the smartphone).

I love this thread. There is a lot of knowledge here. Everyone knows that the "barrier-to-entry" faced by new users in SL is "too damn high". Compare it to TikTok, where all that is required is to have a pulse and be awake.

Second Life seems like a research project for working through "metaverse issues". Remember the X-15 rocket plane? It didn't fly to the moon or even orbit the earth, but it helped us figure out how to build spacecraft that could do those things.

I am a bit suprised that Zucks hasn't bought SL just to get our data :)

[Solar Legion]

TikTok doesn't even require that much for entry - which is a bad thing.

[Cyber Vortex]

I've read some "A.I. Specialist" hyped Meta is gonna be a whole new level, not a "videogame" as Second Life, this alleged AI specialist mentioned... Really I don´t understand what could Meta do differently that Second Life doesn't do. 

Unless they come up with some Matrix/Black Mirror crap where you can actually BE in the world I call it BS.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Anakin Debevec

[Cyber Vortex]

On 1/27/2022 at 1:24 AM, Drayke Newall said:

And a child or teen playing a FPS game shooting Realistic looking characters or cartoon avatars is just a game. Yet studies have proven that it can have a psychological effect on that child or teen where they develop an apathy to guns, violence and murder as well as other issues.

This is complete BS. Who´s this guy? lol

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 hours ago, Anakin Debevec said:

Really I don´t understand what could Meta do differently that Second Life doesn't do.

It will monetize your data far more effectively and lucratively than SL does. (If SL really does that at all.) And it will be much better at throwing product placements and ads for RL services and goods at you. Well over half (probably more like 3/4s) of the blog pieces and tweets I've come across about "the metaverse" in this current round of hype have been about . . . marketing opportunities.

And really, that's what this is about for companies like Facebook.

 

[animats]

Reviews of Facebook Horizon are very negative. They're just not good at virtual worlds.

I suspect Facebook's real product will be some kind of augmented reality goggles. The people who walk around looking at their phone all the time will go for this. It will look something like the Hyperreality video I've linked before - like Pokemon Go with ads on top of everything and lots of notifications.

My real worry is that the NFT clown car is going to crash so hard that a year from now, the Metaverse is as dead as 3D TV. Before the serious players, Epic, Roblox, and LL get the technology right.

Edited January 29, 2022 by animats

[Ayashe Ninetails]

I've been wondering...

Does anyone personally know someone who is excited at all about the metaverse? I haven't spoken with too many people about it yet, but two friends I recently asked had absolutely no idea what that term even meant (both are heavy MMO and multiplayer gamers and one even used SL in the past, so I kind of expected them to at least be familiar with the concept, but...I guess not?), and when I showed them info and videos about Horizon Worlds, the answers were along the lines of NOOOPE. One went on to ask his best friend and returned with an answer a few minutes later - nah, he doesn't care either. Another friend's exact quote (she knew what it was - didn't have to explain) - "I have no interest in it at all," plus some rather heated FB rants that I'll spare you all from (to be fair, they all kind of did that). And she also shared - "I'm struggling with who it would appeal to tbh." The question I asked was "do you have any interest in the metaverse/are you excited to use it?" These answers are from avid daily gamers in their late 30s-40s.

I went on to poke around the web - searched "metaverse" in popular gaming and Twitch Discord channels thousands of people deep, browsed the r/Metaverse subreddit, searched r/gaming, read YouTube comments on various Horizon Worlds videos - I'm not seeing any hype in the gaming community at least. I've seen the opposite, in fact. Lots of jokes, memes, FB hate, "that's so boring/pointless," "what's a metaverse?," "it's creepy," one comparison to The Sims circa 2000, and a whole lotta confusion surrounding the concept. Of course, this isn't scientific research or anything. I was just super curious what real-time discussions about it looked like. I'm thinking that maybe gamers aren't exactly the target market. Honestly, I figured the Minecraft fanbase might be into it, but nope - not a lot of buzz and fairly negative comments in their Discord, too. Full disclosure - I didn't check the Roblox communities, since I'm not in those.

So now, I ask you guys. Who's excited?!?!?

Oh and to answer the OP, Second Life does pop up in these conversations on occasion - mostly people praising it for having done this stuff 15+ years ago. The media might be leaving it out of the discussion, but people are definitely giving SL credit for being one of the first.

 

13 minutes ago, animats said:

Reviews of Facebook Horizon are very negative. They're just not good at virtual worlds.

Yeah, not even surprised by this given the reactions that I've seen so far.

[Dragon Hijinks]

5 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

So now, I ask you guys. Who's excited?!?!?

Who's excited? Grifters looking forward to scamming even more people out of their money, I imagine. 🤪

There isn't a single person in any of my online or RL spaces who gives a hot damn about crypto stuff beyond hating on it for being wasteful, a scam, etc.

Grifting sorts aren't the kind of people SL tends to attract, usually, which is why I imagine we've been "left out" of such discussions. Annoying as it is that everyone is saying metaverse this and metaverse that w/o including us, I'm kinda happy about it.

Even when Philip went on CNN the other day to talk metaverse things and SL he very pointedly avoided any of the usual crypto buzzwords, instead focusing on what a true metaverse should be, the challenges in moderating such a space, and how he plans to continue taking SL in that dreamy direction. It was a huge relief to see and very refreshing.

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I've been wondering...

Does anyone personally know someone who is excited at all about the metaverse? I haven't spoken with too many people about it yet, but two friends I recently asked had absolutely no idea what that term even meant (both are heavy MMO and multiplayer gamers and one even used SL in the past, so I kind of expected them to at least be familiar with the concept, but...I guess not?), and when I showed them info and videos about Horizon Worlds, the answers were along the lines of NOOOPE. One went on to ask his best friend and returned with an answer a few minutes later - nah, he doesn't care either. Another friend's exact quote (she knew what it was - didn't have to explain) - "I have no interest in it at all," plus some rather heated FB rants that I'll spare you all from (to be fair, they all kind of did that). And she also shared - "I'm struggling with who it would appeal to tbh." The question I asked was "do you have any interest in the metaverse/are you excited to use it?" These answers are from avid daily gamers in their late 30s-40s.

I went on to poke around the web - searched "metaverse" in popular gaming and Twitch Discord channels thousands of people deep, browsed the r/Metaverse subreddit, searched r/gaming, read YouTube comments on various Horizon Worlds videos - I'm not seeing any hype in the gaming community at least. I've seen the opposite, in fact. Lots of jokes, memes, FB hate, "that's so boring/pointless," "what's a metaverse?," "it's creepy," one comparison to The Sims circa 2000, and a whole lotta confusion surrounding the concept. Of course, this isn't scientific research or anything. I was just super curious what real-time discussions about it looked like. I'm thinking that maybe gamers aren't exactly the target market. Honestly, I figured the Minecraft fanbase might be into it, but nope - not a lot of buzz and fairly negative comments in their Discord, too. Full disclosure - I didn't check the Roblox communities, since I'm not in those.

So now, I ask you guys. Who's excited?!?!?

Oh and to answer the OP, Second Life does pop up in these conversations on occasion - mostly people praising it for having done this stuff 15+ years ago. The media might be leaving it out of the discussion, but people are definitely giving SL credit for being one of the first.

 

Yeah, not even surprised by this given the reactions that I've seen so far.

I've asked my son about it.  He's  22 and an avid gamer.  He and his friends want nothing whatsoever to do with anything Facebook related.  I have a feeling that's the sentiment of most of the younger generation.  He had a Facebook but ditched it ages ago.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Dragon Hijinks said:

Who's excited? Grifters looking forward to scamming even more people out of their money, I imagine. 🤪

There isn't a single person in any of my online or RL spaces who gives a hot damn about crypto stuff beyond hating on it for being wasteful, a scam, etc.

LOL. I'm doing my best to keep an open mind about this stuff until we actually SEE this metawhateva beyond whatever Facebook is doing (though yes, in my heart of hearts, I agree with you and expect very little good to come out of it). I'm no fan of crypto or NFTs either, so if that's the primary focus, count me as a big ole NOOOOOOOOOOPE, too.

 

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I've asked my son about it.  He's  22 and an avid gamer.  He and his friends want nothing whatsoever to do with anything Facebook related.  I have a feeling that's the sentiment of most of the younger generation.  He had a Facebook but ditched it ages ago.

Exactly! I had to sit through so many Zuck rants that my eyes were starting to glaze over. Not just from younger people, but older, too. 

[Coffee Pancake]

38 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I've asked my son about it.  He's  22 and an avid gamer.  He and his friends want nothing whatsoever to do with anything Facebook related.  I have a feeling that's the sentiment of most of the younger generation.  He had a Facebook but ditched it ages ago.

Same for my son .. same age too, facebook is a huge nope.

[Nick0678]

10 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

If we time travel to 2047, it is almost certain...

I time traveled to 2047 and first thing i noticed was that i wasn't even there.. nope didnlt like it so i came back.

(*still no flying cars and NO Elon didn't go to Mars either btw on some SpaceX modified Tesla.... he did make a sh**load of money though)

[Lucia Nightfire]

10 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

I time traveled to 2047

What does the level of income inequality look like?

What % of the country's wealth is held by the top 0.1%?

Is the world still using the petrodollar standard?

[ethnya]

if anything, the reality of Second Life reinforces my belief that the current NFT and land-rush craze will die down and the bubble will burst.

i'm not a die-hard SL fan, i'm scarcely a tourist, but even I can see that if a 16m by 16m plot of digital land for $10k is no kind of value, artificial scarcity aside.  a platform requires users/players to provide the actual value and ROI.  

 

[Istelathis]

I don't think SL is a metaverse, I believe there will be no metaverse for a while to come.  I've heard the term being tossed around very loosely for the past few months, I've most recently heard World of Warcraft is going to be a metaverse 🤣.  When I think of a metaverse, I think in terms of something similar to the web, we have a VR browser that we navigate worlds with.  Those worlds are made with a language such as the web is created from HTML, and can easily be navigated to and from just as the web can be.  It is more or less sites, that host 3d environments, instead of the 2d sites we now navigate to.  Not one company owns the metaverse, rather it is a multitude of companies, organizations, etc that make the metaverse, using standards specific to build such an environment.

What we have now, what people are calling metaverses, are just stand alone applications that are independent from one another.  We have had those for decades now though, and unfortunately the latest buzzword to describe them is metaverse.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Istelathis

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

Not one company owns the metaverse, rather it is a multitude of companies, organizations, etc that make the metaverse, using standards specific to build such an environment.

This is why, of all the large tech companies currently hopping on the metaverse bandwagon, I think Nvidias Omniverse may have the most potential.  Rather than attempting to create their own virtual world and brand it the new metaverse, they're concentrating on developing tools and standards that can be used to connect the wide range of applications necessary to create 3D worlds with game engines capable of running those worlds such as Unreal Engine and Unity.

While their current efforts are focused more on trying to create a framework for a collaborative developers metaverse, potentially those same tools and standards could be expanded upon to create interconnected virtual worlds.  The recent news of a partnership between Tilia and Unity suggests that there are already plans to develop a "virtual commerce" module.

[SarahThe Wanderer]

Quote

I've been wondering...

Does anyone personally know someone who is excited at all about the metaverse?

I am.

[Maryanne Solo]

Same voice ^^
Same face ^^ 🤔

Edited January 30, 2022 by Maryanne Solo
Added voice

[ChinRey]

10 hours ago, Istelathis said:

I don't think SL is a metaverse, I believe there will be no metaverse for a while to come.  I've heard the term being tossed around very loosely for the past few months, I've most recently heard World of Warcraft is going to be a metaverse 🤣.  When I think of a metaverse, I think in terms of something similar to the web, we have a VR browser that we navigate worlds with.  Those worlds are made with a language such as the web is created from HTML, and can easily be navigated to and from just as the web can be.  It is more or less sites, that host 3d environments, instead of the 2d sites we now navigate to.  Not one company owns the metaverse, rather it is a multitude of companies, organizations, etc that make the metaverse, using standards specific to build such an environment.

What you describe here is essentially the hypergrid and i certainly exists already even though it has never really caught on.

[Rowan Amore]

And in other news of the metaverse...

Meta: Woman Claimed Male Avatars Virtually Groped Her in Horizon Venues (businessinsider.com)

[Morwen Blaisdale]

Second Life works. On its own weird level as a side nook. This 'Meta' thing looks extremely pie in the sky and, by its very declared premise, will require computer gear well out of the reach of any but the haut bourgois. This is not a question of early adopters paying more. The hype about 'climate change' but a big chunk of our power grid is being taken up mining cryptos-another boondoggle. So how much rare earths will need to be strip mined by toiling slaves in Africa to make all the high speed graphics equipment  to allow some dingbat to shop virtually (because ultimately it's meant as a tool of both surveillance and commerce) in a kangaroo avatar?

It's not practicable.

[Morwen Blaisdale]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:49 PM, Nick0678 said:

I time traveled to 2047 and first thing i noticed was that i wasn't even there.. nope didnlt like it so i came back.

(*still no flying cars and NO Elon didn't go to Mars either btw on some SpaceX modified Tesla.... he did make a sh**load of money though)

"I have seen the future. And it doesn't work'.

[Nick0678]

9 minutes ago, Morwen Blaisdale said:

"I have seen the future. And it doesn't work'.

It never does, we just learn to live with it.

[Istelathis]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

What you describe here is essentially the hypergrid and i certainly exists already even though it has never really caught on.

I think it is the closest I have come to experiencing a metaverse, I can even host my own regions on a cheap and old laptop connected to hypergrid. It is not likely it will ever become the standard for a metaverse though, although I would imagine something similar might eventually take its place.  Once a standard has been adopted, and become popular that is when I see a metaverse will eventually form over a period of time.

For that to happen, it has to serve a practical purpose though.  It has to be something people not only want, but also be useful.  Strapping on a set of goggles, and blocking out the real world at this time is just not practical for most people.  It is great for entertainment, socializing, as well as a creative outlet, but I don't think it is going to catch on for a while especially when we can already do most of that in a 2D environment.

I think it will happen, but it is going to take years.  I think innovative thinkers will find more creative ways to make working in the 3D virtual world to be as effective as working on regular 2D screens, that standards for creating those worlds will become universal, and the infrastructure needed to support the data being exchanged will be trivial  I think the goggles we now wear, will also improve, and existing in a metaverse will not require as much effort for people.

I don't think OpenSim hit that mark, even with hypergrid.  I think it is awesome, mind you, I love the idea of it.  It is not quite VR either, but it can be made to be so and I have played both SL and OS with a VR headset and found it fun.  I personally, think of OS kind of like BBSs - in a very vague way.  I remember when BBSs were popular amongst a few of us, we could share files, communicate with people around the country, find documents, and so on.  It wasn't quite there, but close.  
 

[Arielle Popstar]

Opensim has not caught on, mostly because it is lockstep with a platform that is itself shrinking however the hypergrid as a concept certainly has and even Zuckerberg in a couple of his promotional videos described his intended direction in a way that indicated to me he was very much aware of it but described in a way to not make it seem he borrowed the actual concept from there. Philip himself described his ultimate vision for the metaverse in a way too that was very reminiscent of Opensim's hypergrid back at a keynote speech at a 2014 Opensim Conference.

The virtual environments, however, need the ability to link up, and even be physically adjacent to each other in a common virtual space, he added.

“I need to be able to walk out my door and look out, be able to park my educational facility next to yours,” he said. “At the end of the day, the virtual world of the future, as it takes its next leap, is going to be an inter-network of virtual worlds"

. If it sounded like he was talking about something like OpenSim, with its open source server software and hypergrid connectivity, it’s because he was. “OpenSim has started the work to get us all thinking about those issues,” he said, but did not specify whether High Fidelity itself would be compatible with OpenSim or would be a different open standard.

 

“I believe — and this is what we are working on at High Fidelity — is that we can get access to everyone’s machines and use them as servers,” he said. “We believe that this is a completely solvable problem, and the next generation of virtual worlds can be build as a cloud of machines that are shared and borrowed from all of us.”

This is of particular interest to educators, he added, since the resulting virtual worlds can be then created and run efficiently, and at low cost.

https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/04/rosedale-virtual-future-will-be-a-cross-between-skype-and-web/

Edited January 30, 2022 by Arielle Popstar