Why SL is been left out of the current metaverse hype?

[Angelina Sinclair]

On 1/20/2022 at 5:05 PM, Oct Oyen said:

 

https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/13/22881864/metaverse-second-life-decentralized-moderation-patent-virtual-reality

This is a bad thing? Pornhub is a billion dollar company.

In the wake of Twitter shooting itself in the foot by removing adult content and OnlyFans having to back peddle their decisions to remove adult content as well, this doesn't sound like a bad thing at all.

The fact SL can stay profitable while having "weird sex fetishes and perverts" should be a testimony to the potential SL has hidden.

Just imagine what SL could do with a real engine! Real game mechanics! lol

I just think to Roblox and what they've manage to create and the plethra of games and things you can do there vs SL lacking the tools for people to replicate that here.

 

[Solar Legion]

Tumblr, not Twitter.

And the people I am watching on Tumblr still post content considered Adult by their team. Ditto for Twitter.

[Boy Reaper]

My general impression has been that the people who call the shots at Linden Lab have basically just dropped the ball with marketing during this whole metaverse hype. So many company's have put themselves out there in the past couple of months many of which are crypto scams or other such ridiculousness that have no intention of running any kind of serious "metaverse" platform and yet its basically crickets from Linden Lab when they have a platform that has been running for years and that has all the things that accompany a platform of this age(content, population etc etc).

 

I'm relatively new to Second Life and thus have sort of fresh eyes on this whole thing compared to some of the other users here. It seems like most everyone wants to change this restrict that, upgrade the engine etc etc but frankly I think all Second Life really needs is some serious advertising. Its not as if it would be difficult to pull people in, this game massively appeals to women who are the #1 consumers/spenders and now more than ever women are online and not afraid to explore online spaces like they may have been years ago. Throw up an add on YouTube spend the couple thousand dollars, market all the bodys outfits heads customization in general and watch as you get a massive influx of new players who are willing to spend the money to play with all these advertised customizations.

 

Its still so baffling to me that this hasn't been capitalized on at Linden Lab, just YouTube "Second Life" and you will see the angle you need to play. It wouldn't even be expensive lol.

Edited February 1, 2022 by HorseMommy

[Madelaine McMasters]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:29 PM, NardweBones said:

Data is worth money.

Would you provide an example of data that SL residents might generate or collect that could be exchanged for money?

[Cyber Vortex]

12 hours ago, HorseMommy said:

My general impression has been that the people who call the shots at Linden Lab have basically just dropped the ball with marketing during this whole metaverse hype. So many company's have put themselves out there in the past couple of months many of which are crypto scams or other such ridiculousness that have no intention of running any kind of serious "metaverse" platform and yet its basically crickets from Linden Lab when they have a platform that has been running for years and that has all the things that accompany a platform of this age(content, population etc etc).

 

I'm relatively new to Second Life and thus have sort of fresh eyes on this whole thing compared to some of the other users here. It seems like most everyone wants to change this restrict that, upgrade the engine etc etc but frankly I think all Second Life really needs is some serious advertising. Its not as if it would be difficult to pull people in, this game massively appeals to women who are the #1 consumers/spenders and now more than ever women are online and not afraid to explore online spaces like they may have been years ago. Throw up an add on YouTube spend the couple thousand dollars, market all the bodys outfits heads customization in general and watch as you get a massive influx of new players who are willing to spend the money to play with all these advertised customizations.

 

Its still so baffling to me that this hasn't been capitalized on at Linden Lab, just YouTube "Second Life" and you will see the angle you need to play. It wouldn't even be expensive lol.

IMHO their problem is bigger than marketing/PR, the product is clumsy for today´s standards, graphics do not look flashy and the entry learning curve is big.

Today's biggest market are centennials, SL age group is a way older as someone already mentioned. In the current days of Tik Tok, Fortnite, memes, NFT and crypto bros they need to cather to the people that have a short attention span, want flashy and colorful graphics, it must be simple and provide instant gratification. SL is just is none of that and they just can´t compete with what seemingly these new "metaverses" will offer, even if they don´t do anything innovative. Remember that Apple didn't invent touch screen. 

That´s the problem of earlier adopters, someone said a few posts behind accurately. We in SL are the beta testers of what will come. Will that be good or bad? Who knows.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Anakin Debevec

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Would you provide an example of data that SL residents might generate or collect that could be exchanged for money?

Does blackmailing count?

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Would you provide an example of data that SL residents might generate or collect that could be exchanged for money?

What residents buy, wear, search for, look at, play at, RP, etc. In a market that is big enough, that is information that is of definite value for creators and those looking to understand current and future trends of games and social interactions.

[Silent Mistwalker]

I will never give LL permission to collect or sell my data.

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What residents buy, wear, search for, look at, play at, RP, etc. In a market that is big enough, that is information that is of definite value for creators and those looking to understand current and future trends of games and social interactions.

From some of their previous posts, it's pay to earn/crypto/blockchain/nft something or other.

[Madelaine McMasters]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What residents buy, wear, search for, look at, play at, RP, etc. In a market that is big enough, that is information that is of definite value for creators and those looking to understand current and future trends of games and social interactions.

How would anyone get the data you mentioned without LL already having it to distribute? If LL already has the data, they can extract whatever value it might have. How do residents exchange this very same data (or whatever subset LL distributes) for money?

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

How would anyone get the data you mentioned without LL already having it to distribute? If LL already has the data, they can extract whatever value it might have. How do residents exchange this very same data (or whatever subset LL distributes) for money?

Well maybe I misunderstood @NardweBones post that you quoted but I read it as LL was collecting the data which they don't really publicize too much. Even getting viewer usage information at some of the dev meetings can be like pulling teeth. I would think the data that LL has would be of great interest to those looking to develop their own virtual world or create for one and though we don't know if they are selling it, it is undoubtedly of value to different sorts of people who could benefit from it.

 

On 1/27/2022 at 4:29 PM, NardweBones said:

Data is worth money, so if LL is willing to work with that id worry less on how much money new players bring in and focus more on the fact that they are here and generating data.

I am not sure what data LL collect and IF they sell or monetize on it, id prefer a Play to Pay model were you can generate data and Cash it out as a Token (IE claim your data and then Choose to sell it if desired) of some sort of a DLT; but that's probably not a project for SL to take on and will be seen in other platforms over the coming years.

Money is changing and I suspect in a way that will greatly benefit Metaverse platforms. 

 

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well maybe I misunderstood

I think it's more likely that I misunderstood. I commingled this thread with the "Free Land Forever" thread, in which NardweBones floated the idea that residents could generate or obtain data of sufficient value to pay tier.

Even if we presume LL does the data mining, I wonder if it has any value outside of SL. Meta's business model is very different from LL's.

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I think it's more likely that I misunderstood. I commingled this thread with the "Free Land Forever" thread, in which NardweBones floated the idea that residents could generate or obtain data of sufficient value to pay tier.

Even if we presume LL does the data mining, I wonder if it has any value outside of SL. Meta's business model is very different from LL's.

I actually thought the same things.  The Play to Earn business model involving cryptocurrency.  LL/SL already have ways to earn Ls without involving outside block chain gimmicks, IMO.

[Arielle Popstar]

18 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Even if we presume LL does the data mining, I wonder if it has any value outside of SL. Meta's business model is very different from LL's.

I think it likely that there is some consistency among the residents of various virtual worlds where the data from one would be potentially relevant for others and allow for more focused advertising, negating a lot of trial and error.

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I actually thought the same things.  The Play to Earn business model involving cryptocurrency.  LL/SL already have ways to earn Ls without involving outside block chain gimmicks, IMO.

But we now have Philip onboard as a consultant and he had quite a bit of interest in blockchain when he was working on High Fidelity. I wouldn't assume he has changed his mind on that since unless he specifically says as much.

[Tama Suki]

Philip's latest twitter comments are quite ridiculous. He seems to want to mimic Musk's annoying attitude with little success.
The only thing I can be comforted about is that the LL business is well established in the same way that many virtual business platforms are.
In my opinion there is nothing to worry about.
This idiotic wave based on the Ponzi scheme will not touch us.

[animats]

34 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

But we now have Philip onboard as a consultant and he had quite a bit of interest in blockchain when he was working on High Fidelity. I wouldn't assume he has changed his mind on that since unless he specifically says as much.

In the recent Lab Gab with Rosedale and Oberwager, the policy was pretty clear. Ads, no way - SL has more revenue per user than YouTube or Facebook. NFTs, probably not, no current plans, but not totally closing the door. Some way to import externally created NFTs into SL and use them in-world, maybe. Oberwager said that if anyone is already doing NFTs in world (which is quite possible via scripting), please tell Strawberry Linden about it.

Here's the best argument against NFTs:

Axie Infinity's Smooth Love Potion token. How low can it go?

Last summer, Axie Infinity was the hottest thing in play-to-earn. Axie is a game. It's like Pokémon. You buy Axies, which are NFTs, for about US$1200 to get into the game. They are "trained" and "fought" like the card game. If you win, you earn Smooth Love Potion tokens. Some people rent Axies, so they have to work harder but don't put in money up front.

This became a big thing in the Philippines. People were quitting their day job to play Axie. There were people claiming it could lift entire populations out of poverty.

All the money comes from new players buying in. When the supply of new players dried up, the scheme collapsed. It was a Ponzi scheme.

That's the reality of play-to-earn.

Edited February 1, 2022 by animats

[Boy Reaper]

3 hours ago, Anakin Debevec said:

IMHO their problem is bigger than marketing/PR, the product is clumsy for today´s standards, graphics do not look flashy and the entry learning curve is big.

I agree that they do have technical issues, the new player experience for example is horrific but frankly I think a lot of those issues can be solved or patched up with UI and control updates to make someone just stepping into the world have an easier time figuring it out.

But this meme that all "Zoomers"(the current gen of 20 somethings) are all ADHD monsters who cant control themselves if something takes more than 5 min to setup or need like flashy colors and action to get immersed by a game I just think is plain wrong. There are tons of younger people that play IMVU which is like a proto form of Second Life so obviously these types of games are not dead as far as the market is concerned, I've met plenty of people in game who have jumped ship from there too and they are younger as in under 30 lol.

I think a lot of the people who think Second Life is just an old person home or some kind of archeological dig and that's how its going to be until it fades away are just ignorant of the untapped market out there. I can't blame the people who think that way though because its not exactly obvious what's going on in this type of gaming space(SL,VRChat,IMVU) since the typical indicators you see in other types of games don't really exist for this genre.

In the end I get the feeling LL is just waiting for the chance to sell off the company for stupid money and are happy to keep the game in pseudo maintenance mode in the mean time, I don't blame them for wanting to do this BTW. But the way I see it is it really would not take a lot of money to just try some actual marketing and really sell the parts of the game that people care about in said marketing(dress up customization etc).

Edited February 1, 2022 by HorseMommy

[Madelaine McMasters]

6 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I think it likely that there is some consistency among the residents of various virtual worlds where the data from one would be potentially relevant for others and allow for more focused advertising, negating a lot of trial and error.

There's a world of difference between advertising for virtual products and real ones. LL might learn something about human behavior that attracts more users and increases their spending, but I imagine that's knowledge they'd like to keep secret. To the extent there's data within any particular virtual world that might help content creators there, the world providers will be the first to have it. So, there's no opportunity for world residents to mine user data of any value. There is, of course and as always, value in creation. If there's an incentive to standardize on virtual world technology, I think it'll be to attract content creators, not users. This is how the various gaming platforms (Unity, Unreal, etc.) approach it.

I imagine virtual worlds as being run by gods. Little (nothing?) can be known within any particular world without that world's gods knowing first, as all methods of information exchange are created by and accessible to them and potentially only them. In the real world, those gods are mortal, competing for people to monetize, people who are free to roam from world to world as they see fit. If one world's creator has an epiphany, would she share it?

There is no overarching RL god who knows everything and can monetize it. That's why we have Google, Meta, Amazon and countless others attracting users and mining them for data in competition for RL profits. Coca-Cola might require metrics from virtual universes before spending on ads within them, but I don't see Meta crawling into bed with Google to reduce the friction of moving from one company's virtual world to another's.

[Mollymews]

some people run bot armies to gather info on avatar presence and on objects both attached and rezzed. What they do with all this info I have no idea

[Persephone Emerald]

10 hours ago, Anakin Debevec said:

IMHO their problem is bigger than marketing/PR, the product is clumsy for today´s standards, graphics do not look flashy and the entry learning curve is big.

Today's biggest market are centennials, SL age group is a way older as someone already mentioned. In the current days of Tik Tok, Fortnite, memes, NFT and crypto bros they need to cather to the people that have a short attention span, want flashy and colorful graphics, it must be simple and provide instant gratification. SL is just is none of that and they just can´t compete with what seemingly these new "metaverses" will offer, even if they don´t do anything innovative. Remember that Apple didn't invent touch screen. 

That´s the problem of earlier adopters, someone said a few posts behind accurately. We in SL are the beta testers of what will come. Will that be good or bad? Who knows.

Did you mean "Centennials" or Millennials". Your post made me think of this:

 

[Lucia Nightfire]

41 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Did you mean "Centennials" or Millennials". Your post made me think of this:

 

At least no pelvises were broken.

Now show the vid of seniors on hover boards...☠️

[Cyber Vortex]

21 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Did you mean "Centennials" or Millennials". Your post made me think of this:

 

Centennials, millenials like me are entering their 30s 😛

Gen Z, iGen, or Centennials: Born 1996 – 2015. Millennials or Gen Y: Born 1977 – 1995.

Jokes aside, if you think SL can attract younger people you are dreaming. Not at this state.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Anakin Debevec

[animats]

21 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Did you mean "Centennials" or Millennials". Your post made me think of this:

 

Playing "Convenience Store Employee, The Game"? At least give them something fun.

[Coffee Pancake]

Something pretty dystopian when given the freedom to create worlds, some one decided to replicate the misery of a minimum wage service job, that's only point of fun is the controls are so awful it's almost like you showed up to work drunk.

[StarlanderGoods]

20 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Something pretty dystopian when given the freedom to create worlds, some one decided to replicate the misery of a minimum wage service job, that's only point of fun is the controls are so awful it's almost like you showed up to work drunk.

Its an HTC Vive, so its the closest thing to being in the Matrix, that is, having a huge bundle of cables pulling on you from the back of the head