Why SL is been left out of the current metaverse hype?

[Katherine Heartsong]

On 1/21/2022 at 6:35 PM, Rowan Amore said:

Isn't that wine?

[Rowan Amore]

26 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

But only the best wine comes not in a box but a can.

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Paulsian said:

I don't want SL to be compared to adult cartoon games on phub.

Most adult cartoon/3D games/porn are far more entertaining than watching SL's archaic animation engine.

[Lucia Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Paulsian said:

It should be as difficult as possible to prevent children from being exploited and recruited into virtual sex trafficking by virtual sex trafficking recruiters.

There is no sex trafficking in SL. You'd sooner see sex trafficking on VRChat or Onlyfans or even Roblox than SL.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lucia Nightfire

[Sammy Huntsman]

Maybe cause SL doesn't fall under the exact definition of a metaverse. It is a virtual world. So maybe that is why we aren't in the current metaverse thingy.

[Paul Hexem]

SL has been around how long, and you still risk crashes and disconnects on teleports and region crossings. They literally don't have "use the platform in a stable manner" mastered, after all these years.

I'd be more surprised if anyone DID lump SL in with modern metaverse offerings. 

[Sid Nagy]

17 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

SL has been around how long, and you still risk crashes and disconnects on teleports and region crossings. They literally don't have "use the platform in a stable manner" mastered, after all these years.

I'd be more surprised if anyone DID lump SL in with modern metaverse offerings. 

My hopes are that it will be all mastered on the moment the platform comes out of beta.
Can't be any time soon now.

[Drayke Newall]

9 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The poster has already garnered for himself a well-earned reputation as someone who makes unfounded and unsupported allegations apparently designed to induce panic about security issues, and so forth. I'm pretty sure that he is able to provide absolutely zilch in the way of support for this allegation.

Whilst I am not sure what evidence he has for what he mentioned specifically, I do know for a fact that adult content or lewd acts against the ToS (and the law) does happen and you would be surprised that it happens far more than you realise. The reason why is, that other than a user reporting things to LL there is no policing within Second Life directly from Linden Lab in-world and therefore people get away with anything.

For example a person can go into second life now, sit in their belli home, buy a child avatar, add genitalia and then make virtual (against the law in all countries) videos or pictures and then do whatever they please with them, such as create a private group named discretely and offer the images around to members or place them on the web etc. All this without Linden Lab knowing due to no restrictions being put in place and no one reporting it.

It is a case of hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil of which LL have used in the past as an excuse to allow things to happen. Any look at the court cases filed against LL for lewd adult/child/animal issues in the past and you can see this with their response to such things being "depiction of sexual or lewd acts involving minors is bannable", with the non mentioned caveat of - only if a resident sees and(/wants to) reports it. Even then the offenders create a new account and start again.

LL's reliance on residents doing the policing is what is causing half their marketing issues and being left out of the current hype. This is why other metaverse's are booming user wise, because they dont rely on resident policing but employ people to actually police their world and put systems in place to ensure such things cant happen.

9 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

pretty much ensure that SL turned into a pay-for-sex platform -- which is, in essence, literally what he is proposing.

I do know that Linden Lab has been in trouble in the past for such things and it took an investigative reporter to bring it to the forefront which landed Linden Lab in trouble with German and UK investigators having looked into it, as well as other countries. This happened in the 2006-2007 hype years when SL was more prevalent. LL's response was to hide behind their ToS rather than actually actively trying to 'fix' the issue.

For example a quick fix would be to have all child mesh avatars as having a flag 'child avatar' and if worn, removes the ability for them to add genitalia. Can go further in that all adult pose balls/furniture sold have a system that prohibits the flagged mesh 'child avatar' from sitting on them when the avatar is worn.

Anyway here are some links to the articles that mention the above cases: 

Germany investigates Second Life | Second Life | The Guardian
Reader Roundtable: Belgian Police to Second Life | Virtually Blind | Virtual Law | Benjamin Duranske
Home Office to clean up Sadville? • The Register

These above cases were also why Linden Lab brought in the changes to age verification (age control system) of needing RL ID to access adult content long ago, only to remove such requirements once the 'heat' had died down on the subject.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Drayke Newall]

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The poster has already garnered for himself a well-earned reputation as someone who makes unfounded and unsupported allegations apparently designed to induce panic about security issues, and so forth. I'm pretty sure that he is able to provide absolutely zilch in the way of support for this allegation.

I think we can also dismiss his absurd suggestion about not allowing Basic accounts to add attachments or changing clothing, as this would all but destroy the SL economy, and pretty much ensure that SL turned into a pay-for-sex platform -- which is, in essence, literally what he is proposing.

Not much to see here, in fact, is there?

I did respond to you saying why it still happens in SL (and that I have heard about such things from people in world as well), as well as evidence of it happening in the past where an investigative reporter brought it to the forefront in 2007 (a long time ago yes, but it still does happen today due to LL refusing to add controls in place) but my post was flagged and hidden...

Basically, LL's reliance on user reporting is the reason why it still exists and why they are not in the current hype discussions. It is a case of hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. In other words, if LL dont know about it they dont care about it.

So will have to leave it to you to find the relevant evidence of it happening in the past, how it happened, what LL did to mitigate it (age control system with RL ID's like the poster you responded to suggested) only to remove it in favour of the "I'm over 18 wink wink" toggle.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

I did respond to you saying why it still happens in SL (and that I have heard about such things from people in world as well), as well as evidence of it happening in the past where an investigative reporter brought it to the forefront in 2007 (a long time ago yes, but it still does happen today due to LL refusing to add controls in place) but my post was flagged and hidden...

Basically, LL's reliance on user reporting is the reason why it still exists and why they are not in the current hype discussions. It is a case of hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. In other words, if LL dont know about it they dont care about it.

So will have to leave it to you to find the relevant evidence of it happening in the past, how it happened, what LL did to mitigate it (age control system with RL ID's like the poster you responded to suggested) only to remove it in favour of 'I'm over 18 wink wink' toggle.

It's important to make a distinction between the virtual trafficking of real children, and role play that is a representation of that. That the latter happened in 2007, and is still happening, is pretty much irrefutable; I've talked about it myself here, and I have two images in my current exhibition, "Virtual Toxic," that address it.

Paulsian, however, is clearly alleging the former -- that actual children are being trafficked in Second Life:

8 hours ago, Paulsian said:

Age verification should not be simple. It should be as difficult as possible to prevent children from being exploited and recruited into virtual sex trafficking by virtual sex trafficking recruiters. We know they are in world. I would like to know how Linden Lab will handle this.

Virtual age pl*y is horrendous, but it's not the same thing at all as what Paulsian is talking about.

I have not seen any evidence RL children are being smuggled into SL because age verification is too easy, much less that they are being exploited in this way.

I still await actual evidence from him.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Maryanne Solo]

I hold state & national child protection certification in my country and have done for over 11 years.
I was too caught up in some of the humour leading from the top of the page so I overlooked the:
"Age verification should not be simple. It should be as difficult as possible to prevent children from being exploited and recruited into virtual sex trafficking by virtual sex trafficking recruiters. We know they are in world. I would like to know how Linden Lab will handle this" statement.
I am truly mortified. 
If one WAS concerned about such a thing, they would report it IMMEDIATELY to the highest legal authority and not make the claim on a public forum.
As a matter of fact I would report it and not even tell anyone else if I knew this to be true.
Genuine child protection advocates DO NOT grandstand and DO NOT need plaudits from the public. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Maryanne Solo

[Drayke Newall]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It's important to make a distinction between the virtual trafficking of real children, and role play that is a representation of that. That the latter happened in 2007, and is still happening, is pretty much irrefutable; I've talked about it myself here, and I have two images in my current exhibition, "Virtual Toxic," that address it.

In my longer (still) hidden post I stated that I dont know what evidence he has for his point specifically and did make the distinction between what I was saying and what he was, but I just could be bothered rewriting it so shortened it so that distinction wasn't made - my bad.

That said, whilst there is a distinction and with his being impossible to prove, it still stands that there are illegal activities that happen in SL every day relating to minors or their portrayal etc, that simply are never policed by LL due to them removing such checks they had in the past as well as their reliance on user policing/reporting.

1 hour ago, Maryanne Solo said:

I hold state & national child protection certification in my country and have done for over 11 years.
I was too caught up in some of the humour leading from the top of the page so I overlooked the:
"Age verification should not be simple. It should be as difficult as possible to prevent children from being exploited and recruited into virtual sex trafficking by virtual sex trafficking recruiters. We know they are in world. I would like to know how Linden Lab will handle this" statement.
I am truly mortified. 
If one WAS concerned about such a thing, they would report it IMMEDIATELY to the highest legal authority and not make the claim on a public forum.
As a matter of fact I would report it and not even tell anyone else if I knew this to be true.
Genuine child protection advocates DO NOT grandstand and DO NOT need plaudits from the public. 

Fully agree however, that just doesn't happen as it is not the responsibility of the user to report the alleged activity to the authorities in the case of virtual activity in a virtual world or game. The onus is on LL or the owning company to do such things when they find out via AR's as they are the only ones that can provide the evidence as the user could be incriminated if they do it.

The same was the result in the 2007 investigation I mentioned with the reporter and SL user who had no choice but to make it public as AR's from the individual never were acted on by LL.

It was only when the media got a hold of it after the user/reporter made it public that LL acted by introducing age controls (now removed) to satisfy the investigators.

Quote from the link that probably hid my post:

'Robin Harper, the deputy president of the San Francisco firm Linden Lab that runs Second Life, said: "We will find out who is behind this, and then inform the police." He said that Linden Lab also planned to introduce an age control system.'

The trouble for LL and Second Life is that there is to much negative reviews and perceptions (over 19 years) for LL to fully get out of the negative press and views of Second Life for it to be even on an equal setting with newer metaverses.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Innula Zenovka]

7 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Fully agree however, that just doesn't happen as it is not the responsibility of the user to report the alleged activity to the authorities in the case of virtual activity in a virtual world or game. The onus is on LL or the owning company to do such things when they find out via AR's as they are the only ones that can provide the evidence as the user could be incriminated if they do it.

Seems to me that we need to be clear what we're talking about and what LL should be reporting.

First, there's stuff that's obviously illegal -- grooming children for sexual abuse, or groups of pedophiles using SL to exchange images of children being abused (which I think was one of the aspects of the 2007 case).   That clearly should be reported to law enforcement and I assume LL does report such abuse if and when it encounters it.

Secondly, there's stuff involving adult and child avatars, which is clearly against LL's ToS and is, or may be, unlawful in some particular jurisdictions (including the UK) but not in others.    That's more complicated, for the simple reason LL would need some evidence to give to law enforcement, and law enforcement and prosecutors would need some evidence to put before a jury.   

Other than chat logs, what evidence is there, unless someone made a machinima, that anyone can take to the police, assuming that the activities complained about constitute an offence in whatever jurisdiction(s) the people concerned live?   

Yes, there will be server logs, but is it possible for law enforcement to make reconstructions from those?  I ask because I do not know, but I rather doubt they have the resources to spend much time trying.

It's not like finding images on someone's computer, after all, or tracking websites they've visited.

On the general point, I know from when I worked in the criminal justice system that online grooming and the sexual exploitation of minors is a big problem, but I also know that pedophiles are, not unsurprisingly, attracted to platforms and social media which are widely used by children and not something like SL, which tries to restrict access.   

It's platforms like TikTok, or whatever else happens to popular with children and young teens, where sexual abusers look for, and find, their victims, not SL.   And similarly, pedophiles and sex traffickers use media like the dark web and services like WhatsApp, with its end-to-end encryption, to communicate with each other, not in-world IMs.

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Innula Zenovka

[Drayke Newall]

46 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Seems to me that we need to be clear what we're talking about and what LL should be reporting.

First, there's stuff that's obviously illegal -- grooming children for sexual abuse, or groups of pedophiles using SL to exchange images of children being abused (which I think was one of the aspects of the 2007 case).   That clearly should be reported to law enforcement and I assume LL does report such abuse if and when it encounters it.

Secondly, there's stuff involving adult and child avatars, which is clearly against LL's ToS and is, or may be, unlawful in some particular jurisdictions (including the UK) but not in others.    That's more complicated, for the simple reason LL would need some evidence to give to law enforcement, and law enforcement and prosecutors would need some evidence to put before a jury.   

Other than chat logs, what evidence is there, unless someone made a machinima, that anyone can take to the police, assuming that the activities complained about constitute an offence in whatever jurisdiction(s) the people concerned live?   

Yes, there will be server logs, but is it possible for law enforcement to make reconstructions from those?  I ask because I do not know, but I rather doubt they have the resources to spend much time trying.

It's not like finding images on someone's computer, after all, or tracking websites they've visited.

On the general point, I know from when I worked in the criminal justice system that online grooming and the sexual exploitation of minors is a big problem, but I also know that pedophile are, not unsurprisingly, attracted to platforms and social media which are widely used by children and not something like SL, which tries to restrict access.   

It's platforms like TikTok, or whatever else happens to popular with children and young teens, where sexual abusers look for, and find, their victims, not SL.   And similarly, pedophiles and sex traffickers use media like the dark web and services like WhatsApp, with its end-to-end encryption, to communicate with each other, not in-world IMs.

 

Agree 100% with you that it is hard to police it given the difficulty in obtaining the evidence. This is also why I mentioned that it is important for the user to not go to the authorities first but to let LL do it instead, with hopefully an AR with a screenshot of the evidence.

Naturally, as you say and I have stated, in a virtual environments much goes under the radar, however when this is the case especially in SL where such illegal activities are to easy to go undetected the onus is on the owning company to ensure that such illegal activities are discouraged as well as made difficult to achieve. LL ToS threats are not sufficient in such cases and therefore LL needs to do more. Personally I thought the removal of their age verification system was a silly move as it was certainly a very easy way to limit the possibilities.

Their *** play allowance also has always walked a thin line and has in some ways allowed the gaming of it and the allowance for other illegal activities to creep in (this being investigated in 2008 by the UK). In this instance I think it is important for LL to at least try to hunker down on reducing the illegal activities with differing approaches. For example, code into the platform the need for all child mesh avatars to have a flag 'child avatar' and if worn, removes the ability for them to add genitalia (also flagged). Can go further in that all adult pose balls/furniture sold have a system that prohibits the flagged mesh 'child avatar' from sitting on them when the avatar is worn. This has no impact on adult content in SL but limits the possibility of any illegal activity using child avatars.

There are many methods LL could take to further police or restrict the platform when the right circumstances allow and which are relatively non intrusive to the average user however, they have simply chosen I assume not to or removed such policing, to the detriment of their marketing aspects and perception of which even today they struggle with.

Additionally, while LL can certainly say 'our platform is only for majority 18 plus' there is no way they can truly know the age of a person with their current 'im 18 wink wink' toggle on account creation. They are notoriously abused and I would highly expect SL  to be no different. Just like when the teen grid was around we had all the teens lying about their age to get into the adult grid using the same flawed toggle.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Qie Niangao]

6 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Personally I thought the removal of their age verification system was a silly move as it was certainly a very easy way to limit the possibilities.

The rest of this whole thread is of no interest to me, but this demands comment. That ridiculous system was an utter disaster, completely useless for any purpose other than "security theatre" for make-believe age verification. They could have done exactly as well by hiring a company to arbitrarily require some unobtainable documentation from less common jurisdictions, and randomly deny a few applications just to instill a sense that something legitimate was going on.

Oh, wait: that's exactly who they hired.

If the Lab faced a real problem, they'd need to collect and (very securely) retain solid RL identity information, at least as good as confirmed payment info. Personally, I'd be fine with that—at least it has some degree of validity, unlike the "age verification system" they used before—but I'm sure there'd be objections. I honestly don't know whether those objections would have any business significance.

[Rowan Amore]

21 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

code into the platform the need for all child mesh avatars to have a flag 'child avatar' and if worn, removes the ability for them to add genitalia (also flagged).

The majority of avatars I'd classify as underage (less than 18) are not using a designated mesh child avatar.  They use Maitreya mostly with the flat.chest option.  

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

For example, code into the platform the need for all child mesh avatars to have a flag 'child avatar' and if worn, removes the ability for them to add genitalia (also flagged). Can go further in that all adult pose balls/furniture sold have a system that prohibits the flagged mesh 'child avatar' from sitting on them when the avatar is worn. This has no impact on adult content in SL but limits the possibility of any illegal activity using child avatars.

I, along with a TPV dev, have tried to get LL to implement simple detection means for when those who wear child avatars use various obfuscation methods to hide the fact, but LL has yet to work with us on it. We are still trying.

Fun(Disturbing) Fact: There is a child mesh body maker that also makes "detailed" child mesh body genitalia. Users of both body and genitalia are commonly seen hanging out in certain "family" beaches and parks in SL 24/7 "mixing it up" with adult avatar users.

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

If the Lab faced a real problem, they'd need to collect and (very securely) retain solid RL identity information, at least as good as confirmed payment info. Personally, I'd be fine with that—at least it has some degree of validity, unlike the "age verification system" they used before—but I'm sure there'd be objections. I honestly don't know whether those objections would have any business significance.

Fun(Disturbing) Fact: LL does NOT remove PIOF/PIU status from accounts that engage in identity fraud, nor when the payment method is removed from the account or when the method expires.

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

The majority of avatars I'd classify as underage (less than 18) are not using a designated mesh child avatar.  They use Maitreya mostly with the flat.chest option.  

Even though Maitreya can effectively facilitate pre-tween, tween and teen body shapes, I can at least say that the majority of those I've encountered portraying these ages(profile text/backstory, clothing, accessories, location theme) are doing it wearing specific child/kid/teen mesh bodies.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

For example, code into the platform the need for all child mesh avatars to have a flag 'child avatar' and if worn, removes the ability for them to add genitalia (also flagged).

While voluntary content tagging would have many benefits across a whole spread of SL and user activities, it's not a moderation tool.

It would simply create impossible gotcha situations for regular residents where suddenly they are unable to get dressed or complete a teleport because 2 different content creators interpreted the rules differently. We already see large amounts of G and M content rated A on the SLM because it's just safer to mark everything A, or because the creator reads the ratings as a filter and wants their product to be shown to everyone G M and A, not just G and M.

The actual people who are doing the bad and ebil things ..  will just do whatever any community does when a word is banned. Switch to using different words.

Filtering content just encourages underground illicit content, as was endemic on the teen grid, not because people were selling it or pedos, but because actual teens were making it themselves, like all the sex games on roblox.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Coffee Pancake

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

 

Even though Maitreya can effectively facilitate pre-tween, tween and teen body shapes, I can at least say that the majority of those I've encountered portraying these ages(profile text/backstory, clothing, accessories, location theme) are doing it wearing specific child/kid/teen mesh bodies.

I'm saying the avatars who, on purpose, push the line of looking like a underage avatar.  The people who are genuinely portraying a tween or teen, yes, they would probably use the appropriate body.  Those aren't the ones I'm thinking about.  

[animats]

It's hard to see the need for age verification for SL users when PornHub doesn't have it and nobody seems to be bothered much by that any more.

[Innula Zenovka]

46 minutes ago, animats said:

It's hard to see the need for age verification for SL users when PornHub doesn't have it and nobody seems to be bothered much by that any more.

People don't go to PornHub for the drama, though.

[Destiny91]

From the comments ( which I didnt read all of them ) I realise that metaverse is going to be a PG platfrom just to hangout and play or go to a concert that a famous person would perform there? 

Facebook itself was developed by people who were sexting and thats the main reason thats so successful right now. 

It is sad that SL isnt promoting anymore, wherever I mention second life, everyone is like " whats that?". That CEO doesnt lift a finger to promote the game anymore and he's adding fees to even breath inside SL. That game was developped and risen from its people, creators, dreamers. They just have to be friendly to the community, and not send them away as they have done so many times until now. 

[Gilgamesh Alpha]

4 hours ago, animats said:

It's hard to see the need for age verification for SL users when PornHub doesn't have it and nobody seems to be bothered much by that any more.

There are organizations that are lobbying for age verification to access porn sites. Several governments even have plans to implement it.

[animats]

18 minutes ago, Gilgamesh Alpha said:

There are organizations that are lobbying for age verification to access porn sites. Several governments even have plans to implement it.

The UK was close to mandating it but gave up.  Wikipedia has detailed info by country if you care.

[Drayke Newall]

11 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

The rest of this whole thread is of no interest to me, but this demands comment. That ridiculous system was an utter disaster, completely useless for any purpose other than "security theatre" for make-believe age verification.

Odd from my memory and when I had to go through the age verification system they required solid RL identity information such as drivers license, passport and the like. Perhaps I remember it wrong. That said, some form of system must be added should Linden Lab want Second Life to keep its adult content as well as be considered equal with the current metaverse talk.

11 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

The majority of avatars I'd classify as underage (less than 18) are not using a designated mesh child avatar.  They use Maitreya mostly with the flat.chest option.  

It depends on the situation however as Lucia stated most who are the offenders or the role players use bodies specifically made for that age. I dont recall ever seeing a teen body using an adult body with most being either anime variants or specific.

10 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

I, along with a TPV dev, have tried to get LL to implement simple detection means for when those who wear child avatars use various obfuscation methods to hide the fact, but LL has yet to work with us on it. We are still trying.

Fun(Disturbing) Fact: There is a child mesh body maker that also makes "detailed" child mesh body genitalia. Users of both body and genitalia are commonly seen hanging out in certain "family" beaches and parks in SL 24/7 "mixing it up" with adult avatar users.

Seems as I assumed, LL are not interested in any form of moderation on the platform which is a shame.

As to the child mesh body maker also making detailed child mesh genitalia, LL should step in and stop that immediately. There is zero need for such things and simply shows as I stated that *** play borders a fine line between ok and not. The fact that they are seen hanging out at family beaches and engaging with adult users which I assume also means sex, just shows LL is ignorant of the problem they have and that the perception the world has of SL is soundly founded.

No other game or platform would get away with having child genitalia visible or available. Disturbing indeed that such content is 'overlooked' by Linden Lab.

10 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

While voluntary content tagging would have many benefits across a whole spread of SL and user activities, it's not a moderation tool.

Why is SL always the special case of 'oh that wouldn't work'. It is a cop out and nothing more. Plenty of platforms have such tagging or filtering yet for some reason SL cant? Also I wasn't talking about just voluntary tagging. If a person wants to create a child mesh avatar body they must go through a similar process as skill gaming regions do.

10 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It would simply create impossible gotcha situations for regular residents where suddenly they are unable to get dressed or complete a teleport because 2 different content creators interpreted the rules differently. We already see large amounts of G and M content rated A on the SLM because it's just safer to mark everything A, or because the creator reads the ratings as a filter and wants their product to be shown to everyone G M and A, not just G and M.

Rubbish, especially when talking about 90% of sims (hangout). The reason why people confuse the ratings now is because there is currently to much ambiguity between them that LL have refused to define properly and enforce. For example, on a moderate sim you can be naked with genitalia showing but cant have sex furniture yet adult you can have sex furniture. Oddly, a child avatar can also be on said M rated sim but not on a adult rated sim.

This is the case for example with a nudist beach which is/has been historically allowed on a M rated sim, despite photorealistic nudity (which most modern looking mesh naked avatars are) not being allowed on anything except A rated sims according to LL. Not to mention people come in all the time with their sex huds and so long as the nudist beach has rez available, engage in those activities.

The owners claim ignorance because they dont have the adult furniture around and LL do nothing to the owners or the product or the users. In other words the lines are blurred hence the differing interpretations. LL have the most ambiguous (and not enforced) rating system I have every seen.

I'm not sure what you meant in the last part (where you said a person wants their product to show to everyone) in relation to child avatars and illegal activity we are talking about as there is no case where a child avatar should be anywhere near an adult sim. Maybe I just read your post wrong.

This same ambiguity and walking the line activity is why LL and SL can never be taken seriously now for the metaverse talks.

10 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The actual people who are doing the bad and ebil things ..  will just do whatever any community does when a word is banned. Switch to using different words.

Who said anything about words being used to filter child mesh avatars and their access rights. I am talking about a physical toggle on the mesh that if a child mesh avatar is made has to be ticked and is policed by LL with approvals needed for it to be uploaded, almost similar to their skill gaming regions.

The very fact that @Lucia Nightfire said there is a child mesh creator that also creates genitalia for the child avatars should be more than enough evidence for LL to create such systems and that LL have no clue about their own platform. There is no feasible reason for child genitalia to even be made on second life.