Buy Fee Change Discussion

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

One couldn't pay me enough to live there and that is the plot of land?  It's way too tiny.  I envisioned something quite different with Premium.

If they need the house to be built with the tools that come in the viewer I could do better than that and prove it too!  I could even do a few faux windows, not to hard to figure out when one understands trompe l'oeil.  

That thing looks like an upside-down teacup with grass on it's roof.   What it looked to me was that they forgot the page was there from 18 years ago!  

The plot is 1024 just like the Linden homes and as I mentioned, almost no one even uses those homes.  It's mainland and NOT a Linden home. Oh and it's adult, too.

ETA.  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Horizons

Edited April 19, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Drake1 Nightfire]

2 minutes ago, Milk Pixelmaid said:

To the lindens, you would make so much money charging people extra for having a excessively large inventory. Just sayin'.

Free members - 10,000k or less

Premium - 100,000k or less

Over 100K items are charged $10 per year per 10K. LOL!!!! Make me MoneyMaking Linden.

Beat down merchants even more? 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

I have been tired of the forum photo for a long while now.

So much this. I actually played with the idea a while back of starting a "challenge" thread, and asking people to post their own replacement shots for the header here.

I'm all for better visual marketing . . . not quite so sure I want to play up the "relationship" angle more than it already is. There is some serious danger, I think, of tweaking too much, and accidentally radically altering the nature of this place.

[Milk Pixelmaid]

7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

One couldn't pay me enough to live there and that is the plot of land?  It's way too tiny.  I envisioned something quite different with Premium.

If they need the house to be built with the tools that come in the viewer I could do better than that and prove it too!  I could even do a few faux windows, not to hard to figure out when one understands trompe l'oeil.  

That thing looks like an upside-down teacup with grass on it's roof.   What it looked to me was that they forgot the page was there from 18 years ago!  

Have you seen linden homes?  They’re nice.

[FairreLilette]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The plot is 1024 just like the Linden homes and as I mentioned, almost no one even uses those homes.  It's mainland and NOT a Linden home.

ETA.  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Horizons

Well, that's what you know...but I don't know...and if I go to the page to sign up for Premium...I see a home like that?  I thought they forgot the page and left it like that for 18 years!

It still doesn't explain what kind of home one gets and when I saw that house it makes you think you get that house and I would never sign up for that.

They need a video put there or something.

Edited April 19, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

One couldn't pay me enough to live there and that is the plot of land?  It's way too tiny.  I envisioned something quite different with Premium.

If they need the house to be built with the tools that come in the viewer I could do better than that and prove it too!  I could even do a few faux windows, not to hard to figure out when one understands trompe l'oeil.  

That thing looks like an upside-down teacup with grass on it's roof.   What it looked to me was that they forgot the page was there from 18 years ago!  

It really does look very astonishingly 2009. And Bellisseria . . . well, the aesthetic of most of the neighbourhoods isn't my cup of tea personally, but there is no question whatsoever that the moles have done an absolutely lovely job of it. These really do look like desirable residences in real, honest-to-gosh thriving neighbourhoods. And to a great degree, they are.

I mean, seriously. I apologize to anyone whose feelings I may be hurting here, but I could take an almost completely random grab from my Flickr feed and find better and more accurately representative pictures of SL than these. It's like they relegated the picture taking to the new intern, who has barely explored beyond the welcome areas, and doesn't yet know where the camera tools or graphics settings are loaded.

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Milk Pixelmaid said:

Have you seen linden homes?  They’re nice.

She's talking about the sci-fi homes on Horizon that are pictured when you go to join premium page.

 

5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Well, that's what you know...but I don't know...and if I go to the page to sign up for Premium...I see a home like that?  I thought they forgot the page and left it like that for 18 years!

It still doesn't explain what kind of home one gets and when I saw that house as it makes you think you get that house, I would never sign up for that.

They need a video put there or something.

I don't know why they'd even use that picture.  It really has nothing to do with what you get with premium.  Maybe someone in marketing doesn't know that?

Edited April 19, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It really does look very astonishingly 2009. And Bellisseria . . . well, the aesthetic of most of the neighbourhoods isn't my cup of tea personally, but there is no question whatsoever that the moles have done an absolutely lovely job of it. These really do look like desirable residences in real, honest-to-gosh thriving neighbourhoods. And to a great degree, they are.

I mean, seriously. I apologize to anyone whose feelings I may be hurting here, but I could take an almost completely random grab from my Flickr feed and find better and more accurately representative pictures of SL than these. It's like they relegated the picture taking to the new intern, who has barely explored beyond the welcome areas, and doesn't yet know where the camera tools or graphics settings are loaded.

The intern was visiting adult mainland, no doubt.  We ARE right next to Zindra.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This is what happens when companies switch over to agile and JIRA.

No one updated this because either

• No one has created a task to be discussed at a meeting, no meeting no cost analysis, no prioritizing, no budgeted developer time, nothing gets done because nothing can be done, because it's not on the list.
• Or worse, this has just been added to the a grand sweeping plan to overhaul all web facing parts of the service, an impossibly huge project that will never be started because it can't be easily costed.

This sounds about right.

So . . . why not run a contest? There are HUNDREDS of really talented photographers in SL -- it's one of the more popular hobbies here now. You can't swing a dead breedable without hitting an art gallery. Run a contest, asking for themed photos, and offer, I don't know, a few thousand L$s as prizes. And then (here's a crazy idea!) actually use the fact that the publicity photos were produced by residents as part of the ad campaign! "Look at what are residents are doing in SL! You can produce this kind of art too!"

It's just sooooo stupid not to make use of the talent here. It's a sandbox, for god's sake: producing cool stuff is a major part of the point of SL!

14 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Remember back when the grid could be on fire and the devs were running about all excited having painted the wrenches pink. SL is a child of the love machine.

Yes. And if the Lindens don't feel that passion anymore, a lot of us still do. So, use that!

[Mollymews]

14 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

If that's true, then it's a bit screwed up, imo.

is more to do with what I mentioned on here to another person

when tax departments don't pursue overseas companies in this way thru the local Court then the local companies get upset. Upset because they can't compete on sticker price with overseas domiciled companies

is a political consideration this. Why would a government allow overseas companiess to sell into the local market at lower sticker prices due to the overseas companies not collecting and paying the taxes?

politically the options are: 1) Remove the tax for everyone. 2) Make everyone pay. 3) Prevent overseas companies from selling into the local market

while the tax remains then the orthodox approach in the western world is to go with 2)

Edited April 19, 2021 by Mollymews
typs

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The intern was visiting adult mainland, no doubt.  We ARE right next to Zindra.

As interns will . . .

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So . . . why not run a contest? There are HUNDREDS of really talented photographers in SL --

Collaborative projects between LL staff and the customers has been off the table forever.

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It's just sooooo stupid not to make use of the talent here. It's a sandbox, for god's sake: producing cool stuff is a major part of the point of SL!

Yes. And if the Lindens don't feel that passion anymore, a lot of us still do. So, use that!

I'm sure individual Lindens & moles have considerable passion, this one falls squarely on management & business culture.

SL went from an exciting bleeding edge metaverse that could change the world, to a dependable money maker.

Changing this was the one big hope for new ownership, but it's pretty clear where their interests lay.

Remember when we used to evangelize .. and when we stopped.

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Is that really how the math works out over a year, say? Intuitively, I'd expect the Premium with stipend to make more sense now, to circumvent the new L$ buy fee, at least in part. But maybe there are some where the opposite obtains, perhaps for some range of L$ buys-per-week.

/me fights back an itchy spreadsheet finger

i got a itchy back of an envelope finger

 1024m rental from say AnsheX. If wait for special deal then about 300L a week

300 rent + 300 stipend = 600 a week times 52 weeks = 31,200L pa

if did a one time annual buy of the 31,200L and say got best price of 250L for $1 then

31,200 / 250 = $124.8 * 7.5% ($9.36) = $134.16 pa

am not sure what the implications of the new schedule is going to be on the estate and mainland landlords, other than it will squeeze some of the landlords. To what degree I dunno tho

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I'm sure individual Lindens & moles have considerable passion, this one falls squarely on management & business culture.

Yes, this is demonstrably true. We all know Lindens -- at least from a distance -- who clearly still care a great deal. And the moles that I've run across, here and elsewhere, clearly put a great deal of themselves into their work.

9 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Remember when we used to evangelize .. and when we stopped.

It should be possible to reignite that passion. But, as you are suggesting, it's not going to happen unless we start feeling something of that old fervour emanating from above.

[LittleMe Jewell]

39 minutes ago, Milk Pixelmaid said:

To the lindens, you would make so much money charging people extra for having a excessively large inventory. Just sayin'.

Free members - 10,000k or less

Premium - 100,000k or less

Over 100K items are charged $10 per year per 10K. LOL!!!! Make me MoneyMaking Linden.

Thank goodness I've always been Premium -- I'll only have to hand over another $50-60 per year for my inventory.  

That actually might be good incentive for me to spend more time organizing and trashing crap.

[LittleMe Jewell]

36 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Well, that's what you know...but I don't know...and if I go to the page to sign up for Premium...I see a home like that?  I thought they forgot the page and left it like that for 18 years!

It still doesn't explain what kind of home one gets and when I saw that house it makes you think you get that house and I would never sign up for that.

They need a video put there or something.

 

Well, anyone considering signing up for Premium should read all applicable material and do their homework on the benefits.

The page you linked to has a link to "Learn more".  That link is to a knowledgebase page with lots of info as well as a link to a page dedicated to the Linden Homes, which shows pictures of all the newer homes:

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

 don't know why they'd even use that picture.  It really has nothing to do with what you get with premium.  Maybe someone in marketing doesn't know that?

I hope they realize also the new LH are already several years old, and there has to be a new idea within the next couple of years, and no not just a new theme, but exciting new development, lower Li, lower lag, a.s.o
The current LH project was/is super .. but the next idea should already be in draft on the tables...and not just 5 pages of milking techniques with a farmhouse to be on the last page.

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Well, anyone considering signing up for Premium should read all applicable material and do their homework on the benefits.

But as far as marketing goes, that is a huge no no. All benefits for premium should be available all on one page (not as just text), the same page link @FairreLilette posted. Expecting anyone to 'do their homework' to sign up for premium will just end with people saying that is to much trouble and not bothering to sign up. You need to make premium sound good on that one page, enough so, that you want to sign up there and then. On impulse.

That page says none of that and looks more like an unsubscribe email webpage.

Quote

The page you linked to has a link to "Learn more".  That link is to a knowledgebase page with lots of info as well as a link to a page dedicated to the Linden Homes, which shows pictures of all the newer homes:

A tiny blue text hyperlink under a big upgrade button. An upgrade button that should only appear if an existing user is signed in. The fact that an upgrade button appears when not signed in to the website instead of a 'Become a Premium Member NOW' button says everything about how convoluted LL advertising is.

An entire page is is used for the tiniest graphics imaginable where white space is abundant and wasted on a webpage. The fact that they could shift the pictures all to left justify and have the 'select your premium membership opposite removing all that white space and not having to scroll, boggles the mind. Dont get me started on the enormous static image header.

Posting a link to a knowledgebase of technical mumbo jumbo is not how you advertise Premium Subscription.

Get rid of the crappy pictures and add a walkthrough video that auto plays via html5 coding when you scroll down showing a walkthrough of the entire region. Show the community aspect, the homes positioned in their own zones but still joined. Show in the walkthrough a thriving neighbourhood where avatars are walking through the streets, riding a bicycle, car etc. Then have a box 'Become apart of the only growing and dynamic Virtual World community'.

Have another section where another movie plays showing a walkthrough of a furnished home and garden.

Compare Premium to Basic features so people can see exactly what the differences are.

Etc. Etc.

For example these are what the webpage for premium should aim for - dynamic and modern showing the benefits clearly:

Join Xbox Game Pass: Discover Your Next Favorite Game | Xbox
Apple Arcade - Apple (AU)
Fortnite Battle Pass | Primal Season 6 Pass for 950 V-Bucks! - Fortnite (epicgames.com)

Considering the claim that this fee increase is for updating these kind of things and that has never happened in the past for other such increases, I highly doubt anything will happen.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i got a itchy back of an envelope finger

 1024m rental from say AnsheX. If wait for special deal then about 300L a week

300 rent + 300 stipend = 600 a week times 52 weeks = 31,200L pa

if did a one time annual buy of the 31,200L and say got best price of 250L for $1 then

31,200 / 250 = $124.8 * 7.5% ($9.36) = $134.16 pa

am not sure what the implications of the new schedule is going to be on the estate and mainland landlords, other than it will squeeze some of the landlords. To what degree I dunno tho

I hadn't thought of how the new fee specifically affects landlords by "taxing" rents for tenants who buy L$ to pay their rent. That's a good point. Also, this should be an added incentive for landlords to offer payment in US$s (and/or other popular RL currencies).

Any response that mitigates the effects of this fee will necessarily reduce the amount of business Tilia does in Second Life. Not surprising when you think about it.

Back in the day there were such things as third-party L$ exchanges. They're all gone now, right? I mean, god help anybody clearing the FinCen paperwork, even if it's allowed under the ToS (which it probably isn't, right?) Tilia effectively has a monopoly in SL, even if the rest of its business is garbage, so it's uniquely positioned to destroy the Second Life economy by trying to squeeze out enough fees to make it look like a real thing.

The Lab will continue to claim these fees go to worthy Second Life-related initiatives, not to propping up yet another losing side-hustle, but they'd have to open their books pretty wide to convince me.

[Mollymews]

50 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Tilia .. is uniquely positioned to destroy the Second Life economy by trying to squeeze out enough fees to make it look like a real thing.

this is the business risk yes

what confuses me is that the chosen 7.5% schedule doesn't make Tilia look like the real thing to the industry - real thing meaning a money transmitter business

to me, it makes Tilia look like a prepay loading device for a game company. Which may be the intent

Edited April 19, 2021 by Mollymews
business

[Lucia Nightfire]

"Lindencoin is coming! Are your 'wallets' ready?"

[Alwin Alcott]

13 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

this is the business risk yes

it wouldn't be the first time they made a shot in their own feet

[Jaylinbridges]

5 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

It still doesn't explain what kind of home one gets and when I saw that house it makes you think you get that house and I would never sign up for that.

They need a video put there or something.

There are mulitple videos going back to the start of the new Linden Homes in Bellisseria, but they were professionally made by SL Residents, NOT LL marketing amateurs, and of course paid nothing by LL for their many weeks of effort.

Here is a 26 min Bellli Linden Home review celebrating  Bellisseria's Two Year Anniversary on April 15, 2021, made by some friends of mine. 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_Vs4QnZ0v0

Note Patch Linden, VP of LL, introduced the video.  

Why is this hidden from new and potential SL members?

Credits:

Pring Productions

Video Production by Sceneris

Prudence

Anton

Cian

Wycliffe

Music Mix by Alex Zelin

Also see other Belli videos made by the Residents:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzaVJeEQOzUWgeS4ToENLOA/videos

LL marketing for the best SL can offer is certainly ass-backwards.  No excuse if their goal is to attract more Premium paying members.    

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Qie Niangao]

The spreadsheet itch wouldn't go away, but I didn't get very far before I hit a snag. According to the FAQ in the blog announcement, capping the 7.5% fee at $9.99 means that maximum fee is reached at "approximately $139 or higher*" but there must be something I'm missing because my arithmetic says that maximum should be reached between $133.20 and $133.33, depending how you round the theoretical penny that would take the fee to $10. (Also, that "*" is kind of bogus there because it refers to a disclaimer about fluctuating LindeX exchange rates, but the discussion in this case is all US$-denominated.) Granted, that's only $6 from $139 but that's not rounding error, so somebody is confused, probably me.

(My math: $9.99 / 7.5% = $133.20 and $10.00 / 7.5% = $133.33, and if it's any assurance $1.49 / 7.5% is indeed $19.87 which qualifies as "about $20" in my book.)

[AdminGirl]

I'm all for higher fees if it means there will be improvements, but I'm quite sceptical. We've seen price increases in the last couple of years but only promises of improvements. Functionality has actually gone downhill, which is quite the opposite. If they consider EEP as an example of improvement.. then I really wish they had spent that money elsewhere, like these new objectives, which to me all sounds much too vague for comfort anyway:

At present we are:

• Investing in our infrastructure to further improve speed and cadence of updates.
• Overhauling the onboarding experience for the newest Residents.
• UI cleanup.
• Developing new marketing initiatives and entertainment partnerships to fuel growth.
• Preparing for SL18B
• Less glamorous but no less crucial is our ongoing and growing work to ensure compliance with multiple regulatory requirements.

Preparing for SLB18? I mean wow, that actually made it to the list of things our fee hike is paying for?