Buy Fee Change Discussion

[Solar Legion]

Geez ... some of you are reading that "list" as a bit too literal an explanation ....

Edited April 19, 2021 by Solar Legion
... too, not to ....

[Phil Deakins]

56 minutes ago, AdminGirl said:

Preparing for SLB18? I mean wow, that actually made it to the list of things our fee hike is paying for?

I have to say that that raised my eyebrows, wrinkling my forehead, when I read it in his post.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

The spreadsheet itch wouldn't go away, but I didn't get very far before I hit a snag. According to the FAQ in the blog announcement, capping the 7.5% fee at $9.99 means that maximum fee is reached at "approximately $139 or higher*" but there must be something I'm missing because my arithmetic says that maximum should be reached between $133.20 and $133.33, depending how you round the theoretical penny that would take the fee to $10. (Also, that "*" is kind of bogus there because it refers to a disclaimer about fluctuating LindeX exchange rates, but the discussion in this case is all US$-denominated.) Granted, that's only $6 from $139 but that's not rounding error, so somebody is confused, probably me.

(My math: $9.99 / 7.5% = $133.20 and $10.00 / 7.5% = $133.33, and if it's any assurance $1.49 / 7.5% is indeed $19.87 which qualifies as "about $20" in my book.)

 

I posted the same calcs (not the $10.00 part) back when the thread was opened and Reed didn't correct it -- your math is that same as what I came up with

 

I didn't even notice their "$139 or higher" comment, since I was more focused on LL's comments about the lower end of the dollars.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

SL is an active subscription based service.

Keeping the lights on, maintaining the software, updating the experience, hosting themed events and regulatory compliance (which regulations?) is what the premium membership (and all other fees) are supposed to be paying for.

LL have literally one job. Keep us interested in giving them our money.

Do they really want us pondering the list of bullet point offerings and weighing up if a permanent fee increase (which fundamentally resolves to a devaluation of the L$) represents value for money? 

[FairreLilette]

8 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Get rid of the crappy pictures and add a walkthrough video that auto plays via html5 coding when you scroll down showing a walkthrough of the entire region. Show the community aspect, the homes positioned in their own zones but still joined. Show in the walkthrough a thriving neighbourhood where avatars are walking through the streets, riding a bicycle, car etc. Then have a box 'Become apart of the only growing and dynamic Virtual World community'.

Have another section where another movie plays showing a walkthrough of a furnished home and garden.

Compare Premium to Basic features so people can see exactly what the differences are.

Etc. Etc.

Hear, hear!  I agree.  

I've heard LL would like people to be Premium.  After innocently stumbling upon that, I'd say it appears that they do not care at all.  I would never sign up for it.  It looks like a joke or a scam it's so poorly done and is a complete turn-off.  There are people who build here and take pride in it and that shows none of it, not to mention their are artists here as well who...well, are aesthetically inclined.  I cannot even think of the words here.  

I just cannot even fathom what they were thinking.  

A video, yes a video.  

 

[FairreLilette]

5 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

There are mulitple videos going back to the start of the new Linden Homes in Bellisseria, but they were professionally made by SL Residents, NOT LL marketing amateurs, and of course paid nothing by LL for their many weeks of effort.

Here is a 26 min Bellli Linden Home review celebrating  Bellisseria's Two Year Anniversary on April 15, 2021, made by some friends of mine. 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_Vs4QnZ0v0

Note Patch Linden, VP of LL, introduced the video.  

Why is this hidden from new and potential SL members?

Credits:

Pring Productions

Video Production by Sceneris

Prudence

Anton

Cian

Wycliffe

Music Mix by Alex Zelin

Also see other Belli videos made by the Residents:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzaVJeEQOzUWgeS4ToENLOA/videos

LL marketing for the best SL can offer is certainly ass-backwards.  No excuse if their goal is to attract more Premium paying members.    

 

Applauds!  

Btw, those Hamsters are so cute.  Oh my gah.  I want one now for sure.  Those are a like a new generation of tinies.  I've never seen those before!  With seeing this new generation of tinies, they should consider a Tinyland and real life toys too.  It's too darn cute not too.  It won't play on phones though but it's a bazillion times better than those Roblox characters or anything else for kids out now.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by FairreLilette

[LittleMe Jewell]

@Reed Linden Regarding the List

 

One thing missing from that list is fixing the issues with the Beta grid --- the inability for anyone new to access it and the inability to get inventories sync'd for those that can still access it.  Given how much of a drain on L$ mesh uploads can be, I'm surprised we haven't had more folks complaining here in the forums. 

By the same token, I suppose that there are more creators using full perm items rather than uploading their own mesh, and the number of creators compared to overall SL numbers is pretty low.   

Still - if "Preparing for SL18B" is on the list, then fixing the Beta grid issues for the creators most definitely should be there.

[Silent Mistwalker]

10 hours ago, Milk Pixelmaid said:

To the lindens, you would make so much money charging people extra for having a excessively large inventory. Just sayin'.

Free members - 10,000k or less

Premium - 100,000k or less

Over 100K items are charged $10 per year per 10K. LOL!!!! Make me MoneyMaking Linden.

Oh yay here we go with punishing the basic accounts again. 

[Coffee Pancake]

16 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Oh yay here we go with punishing the basic accounts again. 

Basic accounts ONLY contributing to LL's bottom line via the purchase of L$ is why we're here.

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Basic accounts ONLY contributing to LL's bottom line via the purchase of L$ is why we're here.

 

I'm glad you think so.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I'm glad you think so.

Feel free to list all the other ways a basic accounts actual real life money is ending up on LL's balance sheet.

[FairreLilette]

26 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Basic accounts ONLY contributing to LL's bottom line via the purchase of L$ is why we're here.

Gee, I wonder who was at fault for that blunder in that it didn't occur?  I would never pay a single cent for a home like the one shown in the photo below.  Someone else needs to shoulder the burden for the lack of Premiums.  You'd have to pay me to live in a home like the one they show for Premium accounts.  It was no one's fault but their own.  

As far as this fee, I think it's too high.  $4.99 max would have been better.

Edited April 19, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Rowan Amore]

[FairreLilette]

34 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Let what go?  The home picture faux pas or the ginormous jump in fees for lindens?  Well, I kind of doubt there is anything that can be done about the latter, the former can be remedied if they are so inclined to think of seeing through a newbie's eyes and redo the thing.  

But, I'm also not so sure this raise in fees is entirely regarding "a bottom line".  I suspect Covid and a drop in sales last year as a possible culprit.  Although I'd need to see the sales for last year 2020 compared to years prior to know.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Arielle Popstar]

10 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

But, I'm also not so sure this raise in fees is entirely regarding "a bottom line".  I suspect Covid and a drop in sales last year as a possible culprit.  Although I'd need to see the sales for last year 2020 compared to years prior to know.  

The drop in region sales was as a result of the uplift rather than because of Covid. 

[Rowan Amore]

As regions weren't available FOR sale, that probably had a lot to do with the drop.  That was only resolved this February.  

[LittleMe Jewell]

53 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I suspect Covid and a drop in sales last year as a possible culprit. 

I'd be wiling to bet that outside of region sales, SL had one of the best years in a long time.  They definitely had an increase in the number of accounts created and the number of folks logging in.  Even with some of those folks being in SL because they weren't working, people always find a way to entertain themselves in order to stay sane - and that means, at the minimum, those folks were likely putting small amounts of money into SL.  Given the very strong demand for Linden Homes throughout the entirety of last year, they also had a lot of folks paying for Premium membership -- and that very likely consisted of new memberships as well as renewals.

From all indications in various new articles late last year and early this year, all gaming companies had a stellar 2020.

[FairreLilette]

5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

From all indications in various new articles late last year and early this year, all gaming companies had a stellar 2020.

I've heard that.  Video games were the #1 profit maker over movies and everything during Covid, not that SL is a video game, just sayin' as SL is included in there somewhere.

  I do know many creators did say they did not have a good year last year but I have no proof, it's hearsay.  I've also wondered how many might have been playing for free.  Some of us have had to cut back because of Covid.  Some.  Others have had more stimulus than America.  

As far as such a ginormous fee increase, what can one say.  There are some work-arounds such as buying once every four months for one fee of $9.99 for example.  One can say it's too high.  But, it's like blowin' in the wind really when I don't work the books nor know what is occurring on their end.  But, for me, it's not going to effect me.  I can bid for more lindens and break even.  I don't want to see a further devaluing of the linden, and I don't like EEP being the only choice.  I wish there were two choices, EEP/Non-EEP but that is off topic.  Sorry.  

[Jenna Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I've heard that.  Video games were the #1 profit maker over movies and everything during Covid, not that SL is a video game, just sayin' as SL is included in there somewhere.

SL at it's core is a video game. There's no 2 ways about that.

But SL is in a very unique class of game, as it's more so a development platform for user-generated content which is shared throughout the in-game world (hence the 'virtual world' branding) - the only other game (that i'm aware of) that comes close to this is ROBLOX.

However, SL's problem is that it's having a hard time convincing new users to join *and* stick around. SL currently revolves around it's social aspects, as it's not a great platform for games as lag is an unavoidable issue (Engine behind the viewer is too old, and can't make use of modern hardware properly - Not to mention the proprietary script language).

Not to mention, as SL is ostensibly a 'free' game, there is definitely a cost of entry as the avatars new users are given are either pre-built mesh which has very little customization and zero third-party support, OR the system avatar which is an old, jagged mess, which means if a new user wants to look pretty like their peers, then they need to go and buy Lindens to buy a mesh body & clothing.

Combined, it doesn't make for a great new-user experience, which is a large part of why new users don't stick around long.

My hope is that with the increase in fees, LL can invest in more resources to bring the world up to 2021 standards, and create real fixes for ongoing infrastructure problems that the platform has had for years.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

SL at it's core is a video game. There's no 2 ways about that.

 

 

[Lucielle Littlepaws]

12 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't want to see a further devaluing of the linden, and I don't like EEP being the only choice.  I wish there were two choices, EEP/Non-EEP but that is off topic.  Sorry.  

Linden Lab could try to crowdfund new features ... oh wait, accountability is not an option 😜

[FairreLilette]

7 minutes ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

My hope is that with the increase in fees, LL can invest in more resources to bring the world up to 2021 standards, and create real fixes for ongoing infrastructure problems that the platform has had for years.

Any ideas what these would be that would make new users "stick around"?  In your opinion, anyhow.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Tinsley Starlight]

20 hours ago, JamesBoogieman said:

Good for you that you have enough money to do that but not everyone can afford that luxury. SL is not a need to have for the vast majority of people and most will now have less L$ to spend in world on virtual items because they only have so much discretionary income in a given month to spend on a game like SL.

Well then the vast majority should save up and purchase once a month.  I was buying linden just at whatever buy rate before I realized if I bought larger lots of cash I would only have to pay the 1.49 once - therefore saving money..  I basically bought no money for over a month and reduced my spending in that month to make my money stretch.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Syane Jewell

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

14 minutes ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

SL at it's core is a video game. There's no 2 ways about that.

But SL is in a very unique class of game, as it's more so a development platform for user-generated content which is shared throughout the in-game world (hence the 'virtual world' branding) - the only other game (that i'm aware of) that comes close to this is ROBLOX.

However, SL's problem is that it's having a hard time convincing new users to join *and* stick around. SL currently revolves around it's social aspects, as it's not a great platform for games as lag is an unavoidable issue (Engine behind the viewer is too old, and can't make use of modern hardware properly - Not to mention the proprietary script language).

Not to mention, as SL is ostensibly a 'free' game, there is definitely a cost of entry as the avatars new users are given are either pre-built mesh which has very little customization and zero third-party support, OR the system avatar which is an old, jagged mess, which means if a new user wants to look pretty like their peers, then they need to go and buy Lindens to buy a mesh body & clothing.

Combined, it doesn't make for a great new-user experience, which is a large part of why new users don't stick around long.

My hope is that with the increase in fees, LL can invest in more resources to bring the world up to 2021 standards, and create real fixes for ongoing infrastructure problems that the platform has had for years.

Technically it is --- since it has "games" in it like Greedy Greedy, and the game of keeping your boat afloat crossing sim lines.

[Jenna Huntsman]

11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

 

 

Hey, can't fault me for expressing an opinion

10 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Any ideas what these would be that would make new users "stick around"?  In your opinion, anyhow.  

I think that at least fixing the infrastructure that runs group chats would be a good start. Map tiles are on their way back, we know that, but given that SL relies on it's social aspect then the group chats being borked definitely doesn't help.

Make the viewer not run like absolute garbage on most PCs, so users can experience the world smoothly and not feel like they're in a slideshow. (Yes, user-generated content is part of the issue, but the engine that SL runs on is a very large factor in this)

Update the system avatar. It doesn't need to be a competitor to mesh bodies per-se, but at least make it passably good so that the 'new' Linden mesh avatars can be dropped in favour of something that can be customized easily. SL already has the customization down, but it just needs a better (free and easy) platform to be used at it's full potential. (Yes, the Ruth Bento avatars on the MP are good, but why not use that as the default avatar in the first place? Stop confusing newbies!)

Redesign the destinations floater to make it easier to find content, and list it in a way that makes sense. (I mean, the current one is pretty awful if you're looking for new *interesting* places to go. Not to mention the 'What's Hot Now' page is pretty broken).

Clean up the search page, and make it easier to find content that the user is interested in, instead of being *completely* plastered with ads. (Yes, they do relate to in-world content, but it's not helpful to the user if they have no interest in the topic. Maybe implement some kind of targeted advertising based on search terms to display ads which the user might be interested in?).