Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

You said you're in Canada now?

I'm not allowed to ask where (and so I won't), but I WILL say that I'm glad we've got you. You're not permitted to leave.

Now, if we can just steal @Janet Voxel back. And there are a few others here I wouldn't mind Kidnapping for Canada.

We moved here about 4 years ago since my man's family is from here. We actually bought the house about 15 years ago when we came up to take care of a family member and my man said "let's retire here." Don't have any plans to ever move back down. We're in a small town and love it.

[Amina Sopwith]

1 hour ago, Paul Hexem said:

Are you saying cops don't hurt other people? Sounds like that's what you're saying.

It doesn't sound at all like what she's saying. Where are you hearing that?

(Remember the cartoon, everyone?)

[Paul Hexem]

2 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Nowhere in my post did I say any such thing. I didn't even MENTION cops. 

 

1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

It doesn't sound at all like what she's saying. Where are you hearing that?

(Remember the cartoon, everyone?)

First sentence.

BLM is a direct result of police misconduct.

So when you say people aren't allowed to say "us too", you're saying people aren't allowed to say "police are killing us too".

Edit: And let's be honest. The cartoon is stupid. It's the worst possible analogy, even if this were a zero sum situation. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Paul Hexem

[Amina Sopwith]

35 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

 

First sentence.

BLM is a direct result of police misconduct.

So when you say people aren't allowed to say "us too", you're saying people aren't allowed to say "police are killing us too".

Edit: And let's be honest. The cartoon is stupid. It's the worst possible analogy, even if this were a zero sum situation. 

It's an excellent cartoon with a brilliant analogy and you literally just made the first argument it refuted. The complete fallacy that the ALM movement rests on at its core.

I could explain at length why BLM does not mean, and has never meant, that other lives don't. I could also explain, at length, why ALM uses that slogan purely to discredit and deflect from BLM by pretending that it's saying something else. But I already have, as have others.

[Alwin Alcott]

43 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

BLM is a direct result of police misconduct.

BLM is a ressult of a total sick society, not only police, the racism is in all layers. If society doesn't change, the police won't change. Only hammering on them now is useless and hides the real problem.
A majority of all who protest have the same illness.
And not only against colored people.
If there's one against gays..trans or whatever, yelling now BLM... his voice is wasted and useless.

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

It's an excellent cartoon with a brilliant analogy and you literally just made the first argument it refuted. The complete fallacy that the ALM movement rests on at its core.

I could explain at length why BLM does not mean, and has never meant, that other lives don't. I could also explain, at length, why ALM uses that slogan purely to discredit and deflect from BLM by pretending that it's saying something else. But I already have, as have others.

It isn't (fire fighting involves containing the fire and preventing the spread), I didn't (I was reacting to a sentence that literally said said "us too" doesn't apply), and you're still missing the forest for the trees.

 

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

BLM is a ressult of a total sick society, not only police, the racism is in all layers. If society doesn't change, the police won't change. Only hammering on them now is useless and hides the real problem.
A majority of all who protest have the same illness.
And not only against colored people.
If there's one against gays..trans or whatever, yelling now BLM... his voice is wasted and useless.

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing.

Racism is a problem, but until we make police accountable regardless, they'll be able to keep doing what they're doing to everyone.

[kiramanell]

6 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I think it's OK to say "hey, us too" if the group you are speaking of actually is being ignored/marginalized/left out etc. It's not really the same as the "all lives matter" folks, who seem to inevitably be members of the majority, privileged group, saying what they say. If that makes sense (it does to me, but it's late and I'm tired). My mom died of breast cancer and I totally agree that colon cancer awareness is just as important as breast cancer awareness. 

 

All lives DO matter. Colon cancer matters. Breast cancer matters. It's just that there's a time and a place for everything. And when the focus is not on you, this week, rally for someone else. Aka, you don't say "What about colon cancer?" on Breast Cancer Awareness Day, like Beth posted. Doesn't mean colon cancer isn't important.

What makes the 'All Lives Matter' usage (not the way @Gatogateau uses it) so insidious, is that they abuse a moniker of equality to essentially just say "The need for YOUR equality doesn't need attention." (Read: because you're black, and we're quite fine with the way things are). And then get to holier-than-thou pretend it's actually YOU who's discriminating! Fortunately, a great many good people here are quite capable of seeing thru that transparent trick.

[Innula Zenovka]

How many people outside the US are amazed to learn that most of these reforms aren't all already mandatory?    I certainly was.

 

Unfortunately, it seems the various police unions are (or can be) a great obstacle to reform

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/minneapolis-police-union-bob-kroll-us

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[Lyssa Greymoon]

6 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Bad example. Boston bombers only bombed Boston. Vegas shooter only shot in Vegas. Diagnosing breast cancer is much different than diagnosing colon cancer.

Cops kill everyone.

I know I’m thankful that Las Vegas is the only American city to suffer from a mass shooting, or Boston from terrorism.

[Dano Seale]

8 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I think that about England sometimes with it's Monarchy and Royals, that it is scary, and I would not want to live under them in any way as the salaries for Dukes, etc...is way too much tax payer money.

You'd rather we used that tax payers money instead to build 19,  multi billion dollar(pounds) aircraft carriers, carrying 30+ multi million dollar (pounds) aircraft, that sail around the oceans doing....not a lot? Countless billion dollar (pounds) submarines, carrying numerous multi million dollar (pounds) nuclear weapons, that sail the oceans doing....not a lot?
Not saying it looks good on paper, but at least our Royalty and Dukes etc spend most of that money on maintaining beautiful palace's, stately homes and gardens, most open to the public, that bring in far more money from tourism than the tax payers pay them!  ( A quick example: Prince William and Kate's wedding cost around £23m (mostly paid for by the Royal family and Kate's parents. Tax payer's paid for the security only.). A lot for a wedding right?...However, it returned £44m in sales of merchandise alone! The predicted income due to tourism for the following 2 years was £2 billion! I think the tax payer's got a good deal?)

You find them "scary" Fairre? Basically, they're no more scary than the very rich folk who populate your own State....a lot less probably! The carrier's and submarines are just the very tip of the US Military iceberg. Add in the yearly cost for everything and everyone else that make it all up totally that the US taxpayer pays for, now THAT'S "scary"! I think you'll find that paying for a few stuffy Royals & "bluebloods" is a bloody Godsend for us!

[Uneven]

 

https://twitter.com/forallnerds/status/1268649853913042945?s=21

[Innula Zenovka]

10 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I've also seen on TV, that England has it's poorer sections of towns where people live in trailers in unsanitary conditions, especially Middle Easterners.  

I don't suppose you happen to remember which English towns these were?

Unless the report was about sites, whether provided by the local authorities for Roma (who I guess you might mistake for "Middle Easterners") and Travellers generally  or sites travelling people have simply occupied unlawfully until the police move them on, I can't say I recognise what you're talking about.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Innula Zenovka

[Amina Sopwith]

2 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

It isn't (fire fighting involves containing the fire and preventing the spread)

That was also addressed in the cartoon explicitly (honestly, you are literally making every single argument that the cartoon refuted while complaining that it doesn't reflect you fairly!). Although if the house down the road is on fire and your first and only thought is to hose your own because you "must contain the spread!" then at least own it. Don't pretend that you're campaigning for all houses to matter equally.

I'm not going through all this again. It's all there on this thread. You hate the analogy because it works so well. There is a reason this makes you uncomfortable. Think.

[Maryanne Solo]

I adore words and making the most efficient use of same.
As a child in my fortunate life, (with only 1 truly horrific event), I was addicted to spelling.  o.0 My escape.
Rarely do words have as much value as Janet & Ashlyns. 

[Madelaine McMasters]

8 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

While I don't necessarily agree with the "never", I do believe that we still have quite a few generations before we manage to wipe it out, or at least come close.  While it is passed down from one generation to the next, I have seen some get educated and throw away their parents'/grandparents' views.  That still means it is a very slow process........... and we still have a very long way to go, at least in some parts of the country.

I also won't say never, but in my own circle of friends, relatives, and acquaintances, racism is on the rise. For most of my life I've been a quiet observer of the state of things. Since the election of Trump, I've come out of the woodwork a bit, pushing back against people in my circle who harbor conspiracy theories, relay lies, exhibit racism, etc.

It's not going well.

[Madelaine McMasters]

I had a lot of posts wiped away yesterday, one of which was important enough to write again...

A black couple lives across the street from me. He's owns his own successful business, dresses in suits, drives a Mercedes, was the treasurer of the high school orchestra parents association, etc. She runs the on-site day care center/pre-K school for his mostly minority staff and the nearby community. They're also Republican, voted for Trump, want the government to stay the hell out of their lives and think everyone should pull their own weight, to the best of their ability.

In the 15 years I've known them, he's been pulled over twice in town, under the suspicion he'd stolen his own car. A white soccer mom in the high school parking lot called 911 when he exited the school, wearing a suit, carrying a satchel of association paperwork after a recent fundraiser. I asked him if that bothered him.

"It is what it is, Maddy. I don't like it, that's why I'm working to fix it."

His fix is to locate his business in a disadvantaged neighborhood, hire the locals, then help and expect them to do their best. He walks his talk.

My favorite salesman at the local furniture store is black and (sadly) nearing retirement. I've had several conversations with him over the years about race relations. He too has been pulled over in his car or interrogated on the street countless times, as have his sons. He's given all of his children and grandchildren "the talk". I asked him if this all bothered him.

"It is what it is, Maddy. I just do the best I can."

 

Based on my personal observation of life in my little town, I could be excused for believing that white people live in houses and black people live in cars pulled over by the police. That's almost the only time and place I see them.

Fifteen years ago, I routinely offered the use of my driveway to the police for use as a speed trap. Traffic on my road drives crazy fast and I was happy to help put a dent in that. I'd bring out donuts and hot soup for the officer that sat in his cruiser and ask if my largesse might be good for "five over". I even tested him once, racing past my own driveway doing "five over". It was all good fun.

In the years since, we've got a new police chief. I got a chance to meet him when our neighborhood petitioned for a reduction in the speed limit on our road. His demeanor is worrisome and I'm starting to see the effect in his selection of officers. I no longer welcome them to my driveway.

Though my anecdotal experience seems to reflect the larger picture, it may also reflect my own changed sensitivity to things as I mature. Either way, I want "what it is" to be better.

[Luna Bliss]

14 hours ago, Talligurl said:

6 incidences over the past 6 years hardly prove a pattern of systemic racism.

Of course I know there are others. between 2013 and 2019 approximately 1000 unarmed people died from police harm, and about a third of them were black, a dis-proportionally high number. It has already been pointed out however that a dis-proportionally high number does not mean that racism is at work.

The criminal justice system is terribly biased against Blacks, leading to more wrongful convictions and harsher sentences compared to Whites. Statistics in outcomes prove this, along with tests conducted in the Social Sciences.  Biased attitudes develop through socialization, and the stereotypes held are frequently not even conscious, but tests can demonstrate the bias. These unconscious attitudes affect how law enforcement treats Blacks in the criminal justice system and on the streets.

I was pretty shocked in college when I studied tests and learned about the lack of objectivity in perception people hold when evaluating Blacks vs Whites. Extensive experiments in the Social Sciences have been set up to allow participants to express their feelings regarding various imaginary scenarios depicted by test facilitators. They demonstrate that Blacks are more often viewed as guilty of a crime, and they are assigned greater punishment for a crime when compared to white counterparts. This held true (though to a lesser extent) even among test subjects who were actually trained in objectivity (scientists, judges).
In tests with young children even the babies reject the darker-skinned doll more often!    And even sadder, the darker-skinned child rejects the darker-skinned doll more often too.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I don't suppose you happen to remember which English towns these were?

Unless the report was about sites, whether provided by the local authorities for Roma (who I guess you might mistake for "Middle Easterners") and Travellers generally  or sites travelling people have simply occupied unlawfully until the police move them on, I can't say I recognise what you're talking about.

Oh, is that what is was.  Yeah, I think it was kind of what you are explaining; terribly unsanitary.   What are they doing there?  There was no mention they had to move.

But, there are slums in England, Blackpool, Jaywick, others.

There are slums all over Europe which may in part be a possible remnant of WWII in regards to slums in Europe.  How are those slums doing over there in Europe...any better or pretty much same?  We've not had a lot of reports here in America about the slums and slumlords over in Europe.  But, slums are slums.  No one should have to live in slums.  

And, for those who don't know..."Roma" would be Gypsies from my understanding.  

Edited June 5, 2020 by FairreLilette

[kali Wylder]

1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

That was also addressed in the cartoon explicitly

I have a terrible memory.  I may have seen "the cartoon" when I first came to it in this thread, but I don't think it was labeled "the cartoon" at the time and so every time you reference it, I am totally clueless as to what you are talking about. I can't remember what I read three pages ago never mind 29 pages here that I've read in the last week or so. So please, cut it out.  Show the damn cartoon again and label it "THE CARTOON" please.

[Amina Sopwith]

1 minute ago, kali Wylder said:

I have a terrible memory.  I may have seen "the cartoon" when I first came to it in this thread, but I don't think it was labeled "the cartoon" at the time and so every time you reference it, I am totally clueless as to what you are talking about. I can't remember what I read three pages ago never mind 29 pages here that I've read in the last week or so. So please, cut it out.  Show the damn cartoon again and label it "THE CARTOON" please.

                            THE CARTOON

 

 

[kali Wylder]

3 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

                            THE CARTOON

 

 

oh!  That cartoon!

[Innula Zenovka]

14 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Oh, is that what is was.  Yeah, I think it was kind of what you are explaining; terribly unsanitary.   What are they doing there?  There was no mention they had to move.

 

From two years ago

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/18/gypsies-travellers-uk-housing-crisis-charities-warn

More generally, there's a huge problem with lack of affordable housing in many parts of the UK, greatly exacerbated by the policy of selling off social housing, begun under Margaret Thatcher's "right to buy" scheme and subsequent governments' failure to invest in affordable housing as they prefer to rely on private landlords to provide social housing, and, in the last decade particularly, various quite harsh austerity measures that have cut back on financial assistance to renters on low incomes.

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

3 hours ago, kiramanell said:

 

All lives DO matter. Colon cancer matters. Breast cancer matters. It's just that there's a time and a place for everything. And when the focus is not on you, this week, rally for someone else. Aka, you don't say "What about colon cancer?" on Breast Cancer Awareness Day, like Beth posted. Doesn't mean colon cancer isn't important.

What makes the 'All Lives Matter' usage (not the way @Gatogateau uses it) so insidious, is that they abuse a moniker of equality to essentially just say "The need for YOUR equality doesn't need attention." (Read: because you're black, and we're quite fine with the way things are). And then get to holier-than-thou pretend it's actually YOU who's discriminating! Fortunately, a great many good people here are quite capable of seeing thru that transparent trick.

Yes, I think I've made it pretty clear in this thread that I understand all that. 

[FairreLilette]

13 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

From two years ago

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/18/gypsies-travellers-uk-housing-crisis-charities-warn

More generally, there's a huge problem with lack of affordable housing in many parts of the UK, greatly exacerbated by the policy of selling off social housing, begun under Margaret Thatcher's "right to buy" scheme and subsequent governments' failure to invest in affordable housing as they prefer to rely on private landlords to provide social housing, and, in the last decade particularly, various quite harsh austerity measures that have cut back on financial assistance to renters on low incomes.

 

I think we should get rid of slums all over the world if we can find a way.  I think slums are the leading cause of racial inequality.  It needs to be a global issue in regards to poverty.  

 

2 hours ago, Dano Seale said:

You find them "scary" Fairre? Basically, they're no more scary than the very rich folk who populate your own State....a lot less probably! The carrier's and submarines are just the very tip of the US Military iceberg. Add in the yearly cost for everything and everyone else that make it all up totally that the US taxpayer pays for, now THAT'S "scary"! I think you'll find that paying for a few stuffy Royals & "bluebloods" is a bloody Godsend for us!

Yeah, I do find it scary.  I think they used a human being, Princess Diana, as a brood mare like she was a horse and not a human being.  I would not want these kind of Royals over me when it's not needed.  

As far as military.  It was Britain who built up a ginormous Naval Ship prior to World War I.  The ship that Britain built is one of the four causes for World War I.   Plus, I don't pay a lot of taxes.  My taxes are not high, about 10%.  

One way to remember the FOUR main causes of World War I is to remember the acronym M – A – I – N. (M = Militarism, A = Alliances, I = Imperialism, and N = Nationalism.) MILITARISM was one of the four major causes of the war. It was an “arms race.” Because Britain had a large navy, Germany wanted a large navy too.

Edited June 5, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Selene Gregoire]

Slums are a result of inequality and racism, not a cause. ffs

Edited June 5, 2020 by Selene Gregoire