Security/Privacy and New Linden Homes

[Love Zhaoying]

If anyone bothers me in my Linden home, I’ll just do lion things. Rawwr!

[Coffee Pancake]

27 minutes ago, animats said:

Buttons and controls can easily be made more secure. The brass pyramid has a check for a clear line of sight.

The door is closed and the avatar is outside. Even though I've cammed inside the building, touching the pyramid won't work.

This should be a standard feature on buttons which do anything important.

Missing the point entirely. You do not need a door to enter an enclosed space. Janky physics and brute force will work most of the time, failing that there are a multitude of other options.

[kiramanell]

2 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

there are many ways to get your avatar inside a closed space, once you rule out cam sitting or rezzing, the easiest being to just fly or fall into it really fast (lets just pretend that scripted objects aren't a thing)

 

The whole EmDash product is based on that principle.  You can dash thru a wall like it didn't exist. Or just cam in, and type 'tp2cam' (Firestorm). Point is, locked doors are a joke. Hence, I'm slightly worried about the griefer possibilities, and hope LL thought its new secrity orb thru pretty well.

[ZapZap]

This was very good information, Thank you very much.

[Coffee Pancake]

59 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

Hence, I'm slightly worried about the griefer possibilities, and hope LL thought its new secrity orb thru pretty well.

I'm not ..

Big region Grief (grey goo, the sky is falling, etc etc etc)

• This new continent is LL's baby, there is no way big region sized grief will hang about for long (even with so very many plots set to open rez & no autoreturn).
• Report, take screenshots, enjoy the show / go clubbing / rant about it on the forums.
• CHILL

Opportunistic Grief (the dreaded rando - it's your turn to be unlucky)

• ban individual(s) from your land
• hide avatars - prevents them from entering your land and interacting with you (and vice versa)
• if they persist report and use as an excuse to go shopping/visit a friend for 20 mins (like anyone needs an excuse) ... They care about your reaction, deprive them of that.
• make a note in their profile of the date & why you banned them, because give it two weeks and you will have no idea who or why
• Go though your ban list once a month and unban everyone you added the previous month. Very high chance you will literally never see that account name ever again,  it's just taking up space and acting as a reminder that once upon a time, a jerk happened. More importantly, it makes managing your ban list harder long term.
• CHILL 

Targeted Harassment

If they don't get bored and move on and find ways to harass you despite those steps .. you're past the point that any inworld security could ever be effective. Not having ban lines or an aggressive TP home orb on your land will do literally nothing. Report. Seek assistance. Reroll a new house.

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by CoffeeDujour

[Brenda Archer]

4 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

I'm not ..

Big region Grief (grey goo, the sky is falling, etc etc etc)

• This new continent is LL's baby, there is no way big region sized grief will hang about for long (even with so very many plots set to open rez & no autoreturn).
• Report, take screenshots, enjoy the show / go clubbing / rant about it on the forums.
• CHILL

Opportunistic Grief (the dreaded rando - it's your turn to be unlucky)

• ban individual(s) from your land
• hide avatars - prevents them from entering your land and interacting with you (and vice versa)
• if they persist report and use as an excuse to go shopping/visit a friend for 20 mins (like anyone needs an excuse) ... They care about your reaction, deprive them of that.
• make a note in their profile of the date & why you banned them, because give it two weeks and you will have no idea who or why
• Go though your ban list once a month and unban everyone you added the previous month. Very high chance you will literally never see that account name ever again,  it's just taking up space and acting as a reminder that once upon a time, a jerk happened. More importantly, it makes managing your ban list harder long term.
• CHILL 

Targeted Harassment

If they don't get bored and move on and find ways to harass you despite those steps .. you're past the point that any inworld security could ever be effective. Not having ban lines or an aggressive TP home orb on your land will do literally nothing. Report. Seek assistance. Reroll a new house.

 

 

This is really excellent advice, thank you. 

[animats]

8 hours ago, animats said:

Buttons and controls can easily be made more secure. The brass pyramid has a check for a clear line of sight.

The door is closed and the avatar is outside. Even though I've cammed inside the building, touching the pyramid won't work.

This should be a standard feature on buttons which do anything important.

If anyone wants the code for this, it's here.

[kiramanell]

6 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

If they don't get bored and move on and find ways to harass you despite those steps .. you're past the point that any inworld security could ever be effective. Not having ban lines or an aggressive TP home orb on your land will do literally nothing. Report. Seek assistance. Reroll a new house.

 

Perhaps you were under the impression I was really worried about griefing: I am not.  More like curious, really, as to how they'll implement that new orb of theirs.

I don't do rerolls, though. 'Never let ppl push you into a place you don't want to be, or out of a place you do want to be in.' Like I said, though, I don't foresee a huge issue.

[Coffee Pancake]

16 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

I don't do rerolls, though. 'Never let ppl push you into a place you don't want to be, or out of a place you do want to be in.' Like I said, though, I don't foresee a huge issue.

I've made that stubborn pig headed mistake .. Life's too short and virtual property is not something to get attached to, especially when it's handed out by random number geebus.

[animats]

Ah, suburbia.

Someone nearby has an object which makes suburban sounds. Dog barks. Child cries. Kid being spanked. Teenage voice says they're home. Door slams. A few seconds of music.

At first I thought someone left a microphone on, but the same clips are repeating.

[Coffee Pancake]

ask them to limit sounds to their parcel ?

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Blocking the object itself should work, too, if it's something you are tired of hearing (I imagine hearing all that would get old real fast). 

[Vega Firelyte]

17 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

I'm not ..

Big region Grief (grey goo, the sky is falling, etc etc etc)

• This new continent is LL's baby, there is no way big region sized grief will hang about for long (even with so very many plots set to open rez & no autoreturn).
• Report, take screenshots, enjoy the show / go clubbing / rant about it on the forums.
• CHILL

Opportunistic Grief (the dreaded rando - it's your turn to be unlucky)

• ban individual(s) from your land
• hide avatars - prevents them from entering your land and interacting with you (and vice versa)
• if they persist report and use as an excuse to go shopping/visit a friend for 20 mins (like anyone needs an excuse) ... They care about your reaction, deprive them of that.
• make a note in their profile of the date & why you banned them, because give it two weeks and you will have no idea who or why
• Go though your ban list once a month and unban everyone you added the previous month. Very high chance you will literally never see that account name ever again,  it's just taking up space and acting as a reminder that once upon a time, a jerk happened. More importantly, it makes managing your ban list harder long term.
• CHILL 

Targeted Harassment

If they don't get bored and move on and find ways to harass you despite those steps .. you're past the point that any inworld security could ever be effective. Not having ban lines or an aggressive TP home orb on your land will do literally nothing. Report. Seek assistance. Reroll a new house.

 

Really great advice!  I agree, this is LL's baby and you know they are going to be watching it closely.  As for that last part, the targeted harassment, banlines, security orbs, and everything else you can think of, won't deter someone who reaches this level and is fully committed to stalk and harass someone.  Rerolling a new home is really the best option at that point.

[Aletheia Zuta]

On 4/17/2019 at 7:00 AM, Constantine Linden said:

We want to thank everyone for the kind words they have expressed in the last 24 hours since Linden Homes has launched its first phase of homes. We are delighted so many of you are enjoying the homes, the decor, and especially the feel of community. As part of fostering that community feel, we are going to address two changes that are occurring over the next week or so (and explain our reasoning).

The first is that at 6am SLT on Wed April 17th, we are going to uncheck the box on the Linden Homes estate that allows parcel owners access restrictions to be more restrictive than the estate. Meaning: no ban lines. It's our belief that with a sense of community being a main goal of Linden Homes, ban lines send the wrong message. Parcel owners can still ban troublesome individuals by name on their parcel but they will not be able to put their land in virtual lock down by restricting access to group only.

The second goes hand in hand with parcel access, and that is security devices. We want to allow Residents to fly, walk, drive, sail and explore freely across Bellisseria without compromising Residents privacy and security on their own parcels. To that end we are allowing the use of security orbs. However, since many orbs can be set in ways that preclude even the most innocent of straying across a parcel boundary or being sent home even though you are 500m in the sky we are forced to come up with a compromise. 

You may use your personal security orbs or devices in Linden Homes for now, but early next week: we are going to provide you with an approved device via the Linden Homes Content Packs. It will work just as aggressively in protecting your homes from unwanted intrusion, but still reasonably allow Residents to explore without fear of being ejected or teleported home without warning. Once those are added to the Linden Homes Content Packs, the use of other scripted security devices will not be allowed and this will be noted in an update to the Linden Homes covenant.

 

So, to recap:

- Ban lines will go away for Linden Homes starting 6am SLT on Wed April 17th

- Linden-supplied security orbs will be distributed via the Linden Homes Content Creation Packs early next week

- Personal security orbs/devices will be allowed from the above date until approved security orbs are distributed (and not after)

 

We’re thrilled you’re enjoying Linden Homes and we’re excited for everything else to come!

I love that the ban lines have been removed and the security orbs were painful. This has made exploring the new continent soooo much nicer!

Edited April 21, 2019 by Aletheia Zuta

[Mollymews]

On 4/18/2019 at 1:53 AM, Marsellus Walcott said:

I still don't get it... If some people crave for solitude, why not simply go to a private sim? Or why even bother staying in a social game like SL?

because these are the Linden starter homes

removing the banline capability says that people who buy premium and get a starter home must be exposed to random wanderers. That when a premium member is standing naked on their pose stand in their own home trying on outfits, then it is ok for any random person can wander in and/or over and get an eyeful for some Linden-decided 10, 15, 20 or 30 seconds or however long, and/or take a snapshot of that premium member in that state

it is one thing to be photo-snapped naked in a public place, it is quite another to be photo-snapped in what we would assume to be the privacy of our own home

removing banlines from the premium starter homes is a lazy response to a perennial issue

directed public travel is solved by the LDPW dropping withies/beacons in the water, and transparent ones in the sky to mark the public boating and airspace channels. Beacons that are ping-able from a radar script that listen for the beacons, helping the driver/sailor pilot to stay in the channels.  If LL are going to spend staff resources and time on scripting stuff to help users then ping-able beacons please, and have the Moles drop them all over the Linden mainland

which leaves the new premium starter accounts with the expectation of preemptive privacy that banlines coupled with visibility ensures, which should be the default for a Linden-provided premium starter home

 

[Marsellus Walcott]

2 hours ago, Mollymews said:

because these are the Linden starter homes

removing the banline capability says that people who buy premium and get a starter home must be exposed to random wanderers. That when a premium member is standing naked on their pose stand in their own home trying on outfits, then it is ok for any random person can wander in and/or over and get an eyeful for some Linden-decided 10, 15, 20 or 30 seconds or however long, and/or take a snapshot of that premium member in that state

it is one thing to be photo-snapped naked in a public place, it is quite another to be photo-snapped in what we would assume to be the privacy of our own home

removing banlines from the premium starter homes is a lazy response to a perennial issue

directed public travel is solved by the LDPW dropping withies/beacons in the water, and transparent ones in the sky to mark the public boating and airspace channels. Beacons that are ping-able from a radar script that listen for the beacons, helping the driver/sailor pilot to stay in the channels.  If LL are going to spend staff resources and time on scripting stuff to help users then ping-able beacons please, and have the Moles drop them all over the Linden mainland

which leaves the new premium starter accounts with the expectation of preemptive privacy that banlines coupled with visibility ensures, which should be the default for a Linden-provided premium starter home

 

If your parcel is correctly set, that person would have to literally guess when you are changing clothes. Then approach your parcel, which takes some time, and then, after entering, take the pic in the few secs he/she has available to do so.

Meanwhile, you could be changing in your skybox. Or tp to it as soon as someone gets too close. Or tp elsewhere. Or avoid changing clothes when other players are in the vicinity. Or use your body's alpha while changing, etc...Oh! And ban list that person for eternity, so he would never be able to approach your land again.

Look, I get it. You want total control of what happens within your land. You want to be able to do things exactly as you could in the old Linden Houses. That's all fair and square.

But here is the thing: The older Linden Houses were a huge failure. The word Ghost Town comes to mind.

Now, LL is trying to avoid that. They are going for something new. Making a much better looking place is an important part of that. As is making traveling a possibility (hence why anything that hinders that becomes a liability). Giving us more options than previously is another as well (we get actual land with our Linden House, instead of just the house itself; the possibility of a skybox, etc). And making a community that actively interacts within itself is another important part, which LL has made abundantly clear. They want us to interact in Bellisseria. That's part of the price we currently have to agree with in order to have a house there. When you sign up for premium, the LH Covenant is the price you must agree with, in order to have access to the premium houses. It was exactly the same thing with the older ones as well. They just changed some of the rules there, in order to try a new concept.

Will it work? Who knows. Is it for everybody? Sure hell it isn't. It never is. But, as a community, we must agree that there will always be a part of it that won't be satisfied with something. As long as the majority of players get what they want, it is working as intended. It's why I proposed to poll it. So we know what the majority wants, and act accordingly. I believe that the community as a whole is pretty happy with how things are right now, given how quickly the land there became unavailable, and how rare land abandons currently are right now, even after the ban line change. But I could be wrong. A poll would surely put this to rest.

The majority gets what they want. The minority gets to deal with it, unfortunately. As any other democratic system. Square and fair.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Marsellus Walcott
Spelling

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

because these are the Linden starter homes

removing the banline capability says that people who buy premium and get a starter home must be exposed to random wanderers. That when a premium member is standing naked on their pose stand in their own home trying on outfits, then it is ok for any random person can wander in and/or over and get an eyeful for some Linden-decided 10, 15, 20 or 30 seconds or however long, and/or take a snapshot of that premium member in that state

it is one thing to be photo-snapped naked in a public place, it is quite another to be photo-snapped in what we would assume to be the privacy of our own home

removing banlines from the premium starter homes is a lazy response to a perennial issue

directed public travel is solved by the LDPW dropping withies/beacons in the water, and transparent ones in the sky to mark the public boating and airspace channels. Beacons that are ping-able from a radar script that listen for the beacons, helping the driver/sailor pilot to stay in the channels.  If LL are going to spend staff resources and time on scripting stuff to help users then ping-able beacons please, and have the Moles drop them all over the Linden mainland

which leaves the new premium starter accounts with the expectation of preemptive privacy that banlines coupled with visibility ensures, which should be the default for a Linden-provided premium starter home

 

There really IS no issue unless you make it so. 

It is extremely easy to change outfits without getting naked. It has been that way for at least a decade. They use to teach classes in that at NCI. 

Put on the NEW clothes you wish to try and then take off the old. This is really not rocket science. 

Personally I am thrilled ban lines will go away. I have had them turned off for a decade (and yes that is easy also) but there is NO reason to have your photo snapped naked unless you choose to have it so. 

Anyone who wants absolute privacy can opt for other alternatives. Everyone has a CHOICE. 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Chic Aeon
spelling

[Tomomi Fukai]

You know much of the time you log in or teleport total strangers see your avatar naked anyway, right? Every time your body rezzes in for them before your mesh clothes do they get an eyeful. 

[Crim Mip]

I'm waiting to see what the official LL orbs are like. If they are coded for at least 30 seconds (60 would be better) and limited to not hit the roads and waterways (even if those were part of the parcels since diagonal parcel borders aren't possible), that would be great. I don't want to hang out on your parcel if you don't want me there, but I also should be able to fly through at reasonable altitude or use the roads or waterways without dealing with them. That's what LL seems to intend and rightly so. This new continent is also a bridge between two existing continents. People are going to use it as such.

[Laoise Rumsford]

I'm late to the party, but THANK YOU! I am extremely paranoid about people just waltzing in and hanging out in my home - rightfully so, given I often have adult furniture laid out. I don't mind people walking by or even coming by for an approved visit. I just... Ugh...  I like my personal space more than I like people sometimes.

 

[Brat Spicy]

About the changing clothes, can't we just mark/unmark that other avatars on this paracel can't see or hear you? Or that also doesn't work in the new homes either.

[Theresa Tennyson]

7 hours ago, Mollymews said:

which leaves the new premium starter accounts with the expectation of preemptive privacy that banlines coupled with visibility ensures, which should be the default for a Linden-provided premium starter home

 

They can expect it but they won't get it. You can simply fly over banlines, hover and cam down. Meanwhile, if you're actually on your lot and doing something you don't want anyone to see you can right click them and eject them instantly.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

2 hours ago, iBrat said:

About the changing clothes, can't we just mark/unmark that other avatars on this paracel can't see or hear you? Or that also doesn't work in the new homes either.

Yes, the parcel privacy setting does work in the new homes. I think what a few are complaining about is the very idea that someone MIGHT wander onto their parcel (where the privacy setting then won't block their view) and MIGHT catch a glimpse of someone changing clothes and MIGHT, in the brief time before the orb expels them, MIGHT snap a photo and then... well I'm not sure. Sell the photo to a pixel porn site?

The fact is, as has already been pointed out, people get seen naked every time they TP somewhere. Unless you have forgone mesh and are using an ancient avatar with system clothes, it's really not realistic to think that you can have total control over who peeks at your pixels. I suppose you could wear applier undies at all times. I dunno, I don't care who sees my avatar. I work hard to look this good. lol

Edited April 21, 2019 by Sylvia Tamalyn

[Brat Spicy]

4 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Yes, the parcel privacy setting does work in the new homes. I think what a few are complaining about is the very idea that someone MIGHT wander onto their parcel (where the privacy setting then won't block their view) and MIGHT catch a glimpse of someone changing clothes and MIGHT, in the brief time before the orb expels them, MIGHT snap a photo and then... well I'm not sure. Sell the photo to a pixel porn site?

The fact is, as has already been pointed out, people get seen naked every time they TP somewhere. Unless you have forgone mesh and are using an ancient avatar with system clothes, it's really not realistic to think that you can have total control over who peeks at your pixels. I suppose you could wear applier undies at all times. I dunno, I don't care who seems my avatar. I work hard to look this good. lol

Ooh, wow. Since I never step inside someone else's garden, I asumed it was people maybe zooming from far and see you do "stuff". Now I finally get it, there actually people who would enter your garden... LMAO. I do have my imaginairy doors, since my house temporary missing... locked though, so this means they only could peek through the windows and zoom around, like a weirdo? That the issue here?

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

2 hours ago, iBrat said:

Ooh, wow. Since I never step inside someone else's garden, I asumed it was people maybe zooming from far and see you do "stuff". Now I finally get it, there actually people who would enter your garden... LMAO. I do have my imaginairy doors, since my house temporary missing... locked though, so this means they only could peek through the windows and zoom around, like a weirdo? That the issue here?

Pretty much, till the security orb boots them back out! lol