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Security/Privacy and New Linden Homes

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2 minutes ago, Vega Firelyte said:

You may want to check the height of those banlines you love so much.  They have been lower by quite a bit now.  The reason the planes fly at 150-200m is because the banlines are just under 100m .  Over in Satori, Jeogeot, and Sansara, where it's been checked, they were gone at the higher heights.  The issue now is the roads and waterways and I'm hoping in time, those banlines are removed as well.  

If the banlines only go up to that far, then there is a way for everyone to have what they want. Air Travel restricted to that and above up until the skybox placement. The parcels have already been designed from what I could see from my look around to not overlap into the roadways. I haven't seen the houseboats personally but someone has said their parcels extend out a little bit so there could be some finagling there to get them on the same as the Traditional. If the travel issues are all solved then the only thing left with the banlines is the option to derender them (which some viewers do have already) it's just coding that into the official one then.

If we do this then traveling around isn't impeded from land, sea, or air. And the people that desire the proactive security measures also get want they want and no one has to see the ugly ban lines and if they're traveling via air then they just stay in the air zone and go back down at their own place and everyone gets what they want then? Unless there's a point I'm missing that is a concern besides travel and cosmetic looks?

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45 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Here's how I see it with regard to the new Bellesaria Linden Homes: Everything in SL, including SL itself, is "Take it or leave it, no in-betweens".

For simplicity-of-understanding reasons, I'll just describe the two camps as "Pro-Banline" and "Anti-Banline".

The Pro-Banliners say they want the status quo, the be able to use any and all security features a typical mainland parcel offers. I get it. So now there is this new place where those will not be available and hence, there is a big debate between the pro-banliners and the anti-banliners - both sides, I believe, *do* have reasonable and compelling arguments on their side of the debate.

But here is why the anti-banliners will win this one: The pro-banliners can have their way anywhere else on the entire grid, including many private estates and, most certainly, anywhere on the entirety of "mainland". Wanting it here simply becomes status quo, same smell, different day. The reason the anti-banliners will win this one is that

  1. Doing (allowing) the same thing and expecting a different result is insanity.
  2. IT IS DIFFERENT; it is a fresh new smell on a new day.
  3. Many of us will never, ever "rent" from another resident for our own reasons and that leaves us stuck with the status quo.
  4. We finally have our own playbox with the color of sand we've always wanted, officially endorsed and enforced.

So, pro-banliners can take it or leave it because you have the entirety of the entire rest of the grid to practice and exercise your wants. Please do not force your selfish wants onto those of us who do not want your wants in our one and only little corner where we can finally have what we want. Our ideas should not be forced upon you and neither should yours be forced upon us. You have the rest of SL grid to have it your way. At least allow us a place to have it our way.

If you absolutely insist that the compromise that Linden Lab is proffering (a security orb with a ten-second (possibly, not likely longer) warning before eject (and likely not a TP to home)) is not sufficient for you, then please go out into the great big world-wide choice called "the rest of the grid".

 Just quoting this the only thing i can see is that originally it was implemented with full security and then from what i read enough raised concerns that now it got changed so it didn't START like that but then they tried to appease one set. Now that it's gone it upsets another part of the community so of course, they are now going to air their concerns as well as to why it should change back to an option that when this first went live it was available. So I do think a compromise is possible it just might take a bit more work to appease everyone.

@Patch Linden

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, IthilwenRose said:

 Just quoting this the only thing i can see is that originally it was implemented with full security and then from what i read enough raised concerns that now it got changed so it didn't START like that but then they tried to appease one set. Now that it's gone it upsets another part of the community so of course, they are now going to air their concerns as well as to why it should change back to an option that when this first went live it was available. So I do think a compromise is possible it just might take a bit more work to appease everyone.

@Patch Linden

Yes, that is true. And when they *changed* the Covenant to be more restrictive (i.e.: removing ban line ability altogether) - many who were sitting on the fence about getting a newer Linden Home jumped off the fence to get a newer Linden Home, myself included. In other words, though the more restrictive change may alienate some, it motivates exponentially more. In fact, it ups the value of a Premium Membership for some who were sitting on the fence about that aspect.

I get both sides of the debate and I believe both sides are correct in their own right. I see the issue like this: We now have a clubhouse that caters to what we want and answers our years of complaint and it happens to be in this corner of the grid, yet others who have always had what they want anywhere else want to come in and force those wants onto the rest. In that case, the newer Linden Home is *no different* than the old Linden Homes, or anywhere else on the entire grid.

Reinstating features so that these Linden homes are no different than anywhere else on the Mainland makes this place no different than anywhere else on the mainland. WHY would I want one of these, then? There is no need to attempt to please everyone, it is a practical impossibility.

These new security rules appeal to a lot of people, it's a selling point, it's a *reason* to get one of these Linden Homes and that, by extension, is a *reason* to upgrade to premium if not already because now an entire community with a lack of ban-lines and lack of easily-visible skyboxes has become a new *FEATURE*; a.k.a. Premium "perk".

Think of it as a "Sanctuary City."

Edited by Alyona Su
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19 minutes ago, IthilwenRose said:

If the banlines only go up to that far, then there is a way for everyone to have what they want. Air Travel restricted to that and above up until the skybox placement. The parcels have already been designed from what I could see from my look around to not overlap into the roadways. I haven't seen the houseboats personally but someone has said their parcels extend out a little bit so there could be some finagling there to get them on the same as the Traditional. If the travel issues are all solved then the only thing left with the banlines is the option to derender them (which some viewers do have already) it's just coding that into the official one then.

If we do this then traveling around isn't impeded from land, sea, or air. And the people that desire the proactive security measures also get want they want and no one has to see the ugly ban lines and if they're traveling via air then they just stay in the air zone and go back down at their own place and everyone gets what they want then? Unless there's a point I'm missing that is a concern besides travel and cosmetic looks?

The banlines are gone and good riddance to them.  We FINALLY have a land that has none of that stupidity going on in it.  As for travel, they do still impede travel.  I can tell you are not a traveller, by sea, air, or road.  When you hit a sim crossing, even on the good days, it can alter/send you off course a little, even if you take the crossing slowly, it can happen.  Guess where you can end up..in someone's banlines at that point.  At one point, banlines were not even in SL.  When SL was in it's infancy, the sense of community, working together to create something, and unity of ideas was prevalent.  I get the feeling that LL would like to go back to that community feeling.  People stayed, contining on in sl to do all the things they could not do in rl for whatever reason.  Those banlines that some of you want so badly, do NOT encourage community.  We finally have Bellisarria and it's a big step is the right direction.  The people who want those banlines, are in the minority.  You leave a LL home in a huff, thinking you will teach LL a lesson for going against your personal, selfish interests, but that home is filled in seconds by someone else, who more than agrees with the rules.  Earlier, someone said that we should take a vote.  Well, in a sense we are taking a vote.  The amount of people who want these homes is overwhelming, even knowing that they have these rules and regulations in place.  Many of them are loving the no banline rule.  The houseboats sold out in hours and the homes were not far behind in that.  We are taking a vote with our own actions and the way those homes filled up and it's overwhelmingly in favor of allowing more access to move around and not having to deal with banlines or overly aggressive orbs.  If you really cannot live without the banlines, there is so many areas for you to go to.

As for your view on just block them from your viewer; well they are still there when my car, or my boat, or my helicopter gets knocked off course from a sim crossing, regardless on if I can see it or not.  It will still get hung up on that ban line and it will still get messed up, script-wise, even though I won't be able to see it.  It is still just as intrusive and just as anti-community, even if I am unable to see it.

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1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

Here's how I see it with regard to the new Bellesaria Linden Homes: Everything in SL, including SL itself, is "Take it or leave it, no in-betweens".

For simplicity-of-understanding reasons, I'll just describe the two camps as "Pro-Banline" and "Anti-Banline".

The Pro-Banliners say they want the status quo, the be able to use any and all security features a typical mainland parcel offers. I get it. So now there is this new place where those will not be available and hence, there is a big debate between the pro-banliners and the anti-banliners - both sides, I believe, *do* have reasonable and compelling arguments on their side of the debate.

But here is why the anti-banliners will win this one: The pro-banliners can have their way anywhere else on the entire grid, including many private estates and, most certainly, anywhere on the entirety of "mainland". Wanting it here simply becomes status quo, same smell, different day. The reason the anti-banliners will win this one is that

  1. Doing (allowing) the same thing and expecting a different result is insanity.
  2. IT IS DIFFERENT; it is a fresh new smell on a new day.
  3. Many of us will never, ever "rent" from another resident for our own reasons and that leaves us stuck with the status quo.
  4. We finally have our own playbox with the color of sand we've always wanted, officially endorsed and enforced.

So, pro-banliners can take it or leave it because you have the entirety of the entire rest of the grid to practice and exercise your wants. Please do not force your selfish wants onto those of us who do not want your wants in our one and only little corner where we can finally have what we want. Our ideas should not be forced upon you and neither should yours be forced upon us. You have the rest of SL grid to have it your way. At least allow us a place to have it our way.

If you absolutely insist that the compromise that Linden Lab is proffering (a security orb that can only be configured in a responsible way) is not sufficient for you, then please go out into the great big world-wide choice called "the rest of the grid".

@Patch Linden

I totally get what she is saying. And I can totally understand why those who want to fly unimpeded are so happy with this change. The problem is that you've created this beautiful place for us to live and everyone wants to live here, but there are still those who treasure their privacy. To create such a treasure and then rip away what has been a standard expectation for many, many years is shocking to many of us. I'm wondering since it's highly likely that this continent is going to get repeated (I'm assuming that's the plan since there are to be 4000 regions eventually.) would it be possible to have a section of homes that have security enabled for those who really love what you've done but don't want to give up an expectation that's been in SL for as long as I can remember. It could have a different category but be the same styles. For instance, traditional secured.

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25 minutes ago, Vega Firelyte said:

The banlines are gone and good riddance to them.  We FINALLY have a land that has none of that stupidity going on in it.  As for travel, they do still impede travel.  I can tell you are not a traveller, by sea, air, or road.  When you hit a sim crossing, even on the good days, it can alter/send you off course a little, even if you take the crossing slowly, it can happen.  Guess where you can end up..in someone's banlines at that point.  At one point, banlines were not even in SL.  When SL was in it's infancy, the sense of community, working together to create something, and unity of ideas was prevalent.  I get the feeling that LL would like to go back to that community feeling.  People stayed, contining on in sl to do all the things they could not do in rl for whatever reason.  Those banlines that some of you want so badly, do NOT encourage community.  We finally have Bellisarria and it's a big step is the right direction.  The people who want those banlines, are in the minority.  You leave a LL home in a huff, thinking you will teach LL a lesson for going against your personal, selfish interests, but that home is filled in seconds by someone else, who more than agrees with the rules.  Earlier, someone said that we should take a vote.  Well, in a sense we are taking a vote.  The amount of people who want these homes is overwhelming, even knowing that they have these rules and regulations in place.  Many of them are loving the no banline rule.  The houseboats sold out in hours and the homes were not far behind in that.  We are taking a vote with our own actions and the way those homes filled up and it's overwhelmingly in favor of allowing more access to move around and not having to deal with banlines or overly aggressive orbs.  If you really cannot live without the banlines, there is so many areas for you to go to.

As for your view on just block them from your viewer; well they are still there when my car, or my boat, or my helicopter gets knocked off course from a sim crossing, regardless on if I can see it or not.  It will still get hung up on that ban line and it will still get messed up, script-wise, even though I won't be able to see it.  It is still just as intrusive and just as anti-community, even if I am unable to see it.

Actually, I do travel, quite a bit and have met some great new friends that way. I do enjoy it and I do account for that. I have said i tried by air but when I was on the computer I was using it was so low end that it went really bad for lag related issues. I get that on other areas the parcels were designed so you would have overlap. That overlap ISN'T here. 

To be clear, I want the fall back options because I do see the concerns others have had as well.  

That being said, I got the linden home not because of the ban lines but because I wanted the 1024 parcel and the prettier linden home since they would be getting phased out anyways. That being said you can slow down before you get to a crossing, i keep a mini up for that reason when i'm traveling, especially on my motorcycle because if i'm not watching that I'll end up under a sim! I have some hilarious photos from that. And the new continent DOESN'T have the homes going off over onto the road.

I personally am welcoming trying the orb and hoping that it isn't needed to have banlines. However, while I'm PERSONALLY fine with it I totally understand why people want the options to have the ban lines. If you're helicopter though is up in the area where you wouldn't be going into the ban lines as its already been said starting at x-height that won't be an issue then. From a scripters perspective, there's a reason why vehicles are copy/mod. Even if a crossing or just general SL bugs mess it up you can rez another helicopter. It's not anti-community at that point.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

@Patch Linden

I totally get what she is saying. And I can totally understand why those who want to fly unimpeded are so happy with this change. The problem is that you've created this beautiful place for us to live and everyone wants to live here, but there are still those who treasure their privacy. To create such a treasure and then rip away what has been a standard expectation for many, many years is shocking to many of us. I'm wondering since it's highly likely that this continent is going to get repeated (I'm assuming that's the plan since there are to be 4000 regions eventually.) would it be possible to have a section of homes that have security enabled for those who really love what you've done but don't want to give up an expectation that's been in SL for as long as I can remember. It could have a different category but be the same styles. For instance, traditional secured.

So much this! This would be a great compromise. Have a continent that is largely able to be explored completely unrestricted and then have a small section of that continent where those that like their privacy can have it while you can still explore the parts that aren't private homes as well and then we can meet up in community areas. This would be really great! 

Edited by IthilwenRose
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Alot of people don't currently have one because the plots are all sold out so to speak. Why can't someone interested in the community comment? What's to say that he can't join the community at a later date?

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Folks, please keep it civil.   I really don't want to have to lock this discussion down.   

 

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14 minutes ago, IthilwenRose said:

So much this! This would be a great compromise. Have a continent that is largely able to be explored completely unrestricted and then have a small section of that continent where those that like their privacy can have it while you can still explore the parts that aren't private homes as well and then we can meet up in community areas. This would be really great! 

Perhaps a no-fly, no-vehicular traffic continent, or a space for Premium Homes & lots already in private skyboxes above 2000 m would solve that issue?  Maybe those spots could be over 2000 m over top of the Protected water?  Perhaps provide a folder of LMs for the Premium Mainland community areas and rez zones, sandboxes if those skybox residents want to also participate in more social activities and maintain very strict privacy in their homes?

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1 minute ago, BJoyful said:

 in private skyboxes above 2000 m would solve that issue?  Maybe those spots could be over 2000 m over top of the Protected water?

this is such unacceptable thing, it's mentioned more already
the people who want privacy simply also want a Home, nothing more, nothing less.
 

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2 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

Perhaps a no-fly, no-vehicular traffic continent, or a space for Premium Homes & lots already in private skyboxes above 2000 m would solve that issue?  Maybe those spots could be over 2000 m over top of the Protected water?  Perhaps provide a folder of LMs for the Premium Mainland community areas and rez zones, sandboxes if those skybox residents want to also participate in more social activities and maintain very strict privacy in their homes?

Wait no! that's not good. These people that want privacy options still want to have a community. They want the Linden homes on the ground too. Just they'd like to be over in a courner where they can if they are in the minority for the secured areas. They want to be able to walk over to their friends that are in an access list or in a group that's shared. It's not that they don't want to have a community they just want to have these lovely landscaped areas that are private too.

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2 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

this is such unacceptable thing, it's mentioned more already
the people who want privacy simply also want a Home, nothing more, nothing less.
 

These are only suggestions for allowing everyone to have what they would like to have :) (see below)

5 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

Perhaps a no-fly, no-vehicular traffic continent

 

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1 minute ago, BJoyful said:

These are only suggestions for allowing everyone to have what they would like to have :) (see below)

yes i know that, but it's not solving where i'ts about, why on earth should people go live in a skybox at a Linden Home sim, .. I want a home on the groundlevel, for a skybox i'd better go to the mainland, there is all allowed to keep privacy.
Even in your LH skybox you'r not allowed to use your own privacy tools, LL goes distribute orbs to use, No thank you very much.

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5 minutes ago, IthilwenRose said:

Wait no! that's not good. These people that want privacy options still want to have a community. They want the Linden homes on the ground too. Just they'd like to be over in a courner where they can if they are in the minority for the secured areas. They want to be able to walk over to their friends that are in an access list or in a group that's shared. It's not that they don't want to have a community they just want to have these lovely landscaped areas that are private too.

I think I suggested that?

5 minutes ago, IthilwenRose said:

Perhaps a no-fly, no-vehicular traffic continent

6 minutes ago, IthilwenRose said:

Perhaps provide a folder of LMs for the Premium Mainland community areas and rez zones, sandboxes if those skybox residents want to also participate in more social activities and maintain very strict privacy in their homes?

In my opinion LL has provided what many people have asked for in the new continent and perhaps it is just that this request has been answered first because it's unique.  I don't believe LL will ignore the needs of its many happy existing residents and maybe their needs for updated houses with ban lines will happen soon, too :) 

 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

yes i know that, but it's not solving where i'ts about, why on earth should people go live in a skybox at a Linden Home sim, .. I want a home on the groundlevel, for a skybox i'd better go to the mainland, there is all allowed to keep privacy.
Even in your LH skybox you'r not allowed to use your own privacy tools, LL goes distribute orbs to use, No thank you very much.

As of Sunday, this was the generally accepted course of action for those who wanted things their own way:

On 4/14/2019 at 8:52 AM, Parhelion Palou said:

Here's a solution: Create a Vehicle Owners Association Private Homeowner's group and everyone in it donate tier to the group. The group buys land to use for boating/driving/flying/pogo sticks secure homes so that everyone can use it. [...] There's a lot of empty land on the mainland. Use that.

 

 

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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40 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

As of Sunday, this was the generally accepted course of action for those who wanted things their own way:

 

Except that people want to have it with Linden Labs with the linden homes. Going to the Mainland doesn't solve it.

44 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

I think I suggested that?

In my opinion LL has provided what many people have asked for in the new continent and perhaps it is just that this request has been answered first because it's unique.  I don't believe LL will ignore the needs of its many happy existing residents and maybe their needs for updated houses with ban lines will happen soon, too :) 

 

Your suggestion was for them to go up into the skybox. That's the resistance if that was a misunderstanding I do apologize for misunderstanding your intent.

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The first is that at 6am SLT on Wed April 17th, we are going to uncheck the box on the Linden Homes estate that allows parcel owners access restrictions to be more restrictive than the estate. Meaning: no ban lines. It's our belief that with a sense of community being a main goal of Linden Homes, ban lines send the wrong message. Parcel owners can still ban troublesome individuals by name on their parcel but they will not be able to put their land in virtual lock down by restricting access to group only.

Ok so let see LL advertises NEW LINDEN HOMES!. Show cases them before hand. Now NOWHERE is it stated it would different than the FIRST Linden homes except as to style and land area.  Nicer homes..and MORE LAND. Sounds GREAT! Ok LETS move!! So we abandon our old LL home and grab one of the new style homes.

Move in start to decorate and such. Seems nice. Setup land JUST LIKE last LL home. AND THEN BAM!!! LL SUDDENLY decides that HEyyy we want to be a KUMBAYA  LOVE THY NEIGHBORS. SORRY but CAN NOT have Ban lines. Well so why NOW!  Why not tell us ahead of time?? So from reading all the last HUNDREDS of comments there doesn't seem to be any one reason. BUT one thing I DO KNOW about SL ..it is: there are ALL kinds of "people" in SL. What LL is telling us is that we are to share whatever we are doing in this fancy brand new home with ALL those people. We ALL know that the PRIVACY thingy ..you know the thing that ALL land has when set:

This parcel hides avatars and text chat from another parcel.   You can't see other residents outside the parcel, and those outside are not able to see you.  Regular text chat on channel 0 is also blocked

Well that has become TOTALLY useless. So why have???  We ALL know that once one is on the Parcel it NO longer applies. Also with ability to set parcel like older LL homes one could NOT easily just cam over a sit on any sit object and invite themselves into any of your private moments in YOUR HOME. Before when the Allow Anyone was NOT set when one would try this is the message they would get : You cannot sit because you are not allowed on that land.

So from again looking at ALL the hundred of posts...we are to ACCEPT a LL Security. Nice..so not sure what this will provide but if its like most securities one will still have to put up with uninvited guest landing on ones bed or sofa or wherever for a short amount of time before being "ejected" and hoping that this LL device will eject well beyond the parcel and of course they can try AGAIN ...and AGAIN and AGAIN. Until one gets the avatar's name and ADDS to BAN. Well there goes that nice intimate moment with partner or friends while one fights off UNINVITED guest.

So lets say we don't mind this intrusion for the sake of BROTHERLY love. How about all the VOYEURS out there. Heck lets roam the neighborhood and stand at corner of parcel and just cam in and get whatever show maybe going on. Cause parcel Hide has become useless.  Maybe one can find oneself and others appearing on a YouTube video that would be cool.

So for all the Ban LINE haters. Enjoy your lets "all just get along here" at the NEW LL homes. I will watch this Forum in the future to see how this all works out. But having seen what I have seen in SL I would hedge my bets that LL will soon be getting a lot more  REPORT ABUSE items then before the NEW homes were added. They better add a few more Lindens to handle the traffic. Cause once the Peeps find out about this new area of interest I am sure all sorts of ALTS will be showing up to test this wonderful brotherly love land and what it has to offer.

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On a somewhat technical note, here's a feature that could make security devices more user-friendly. Provide the ability to set the autoreturn time on a per-object basis.

The use case is a parking space. The parcel might have an autoreturn time of five minutes.  But park a vehicle on a parking space, and you get more time. No need to subdivide your parcel, which you can't do in many areas.

Fancier parking controllers could check that at least one of the avatars that arrived with the vehicle is still nearby. This implements "Free parking while shopping at ..."

Easy for users to understand. You buy a parking space object on Marketplace, set it somewhere on your own property, and it Just Works. No complex security orbs to configure. No subdividing your parcel. The parking space detects when an object has collided with it, checks that it's a vehicle (physics is on and has an avatar sitting on it), and then sets the autoreturn time.

Technical stuff:

Proposed new LSL calls:
 

llSetAutoreturnTime(key id, float secs)

float llGetAutoreturnTime(key id)
  • These do what you'd expect. Set and get the autoreturn time for an object.
  • The caller can set the autoreturn time of an object if they have the privileges required to return it.
  • Setting autoreturn time to zero means it can stay forever. For immediate return, set a small positive value.
  • Calling llGetAutoreturnTime with NULL_KEY returns the autoreturn time of the object making the call. Vehicles can use this to warn their drivers that the time limit is running out.

Comments?

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4 minutes ago, IthilwenRose said:

Except that people want to have it with Linden Labs with the linden homes. Going to the Mainland doesn't solve it.

Your suggestion was for them to go up into the skybox. That's the resistance if that was a misunderstanding I do apologize for misunderstanding your intent.

I probably should have written more clearly :)  A separate no fly no vehicular traffic Premium continent OR an LL House & plot in a skybox over the Protected water above 2000 m OR, etc. :) 

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I've said it once, and I'll say it again:

Poll it!

Instead of coming up with ideas of why "I" should be allowed to have ban lines, or free movement, etc... All of which are, to a certain degree, subjective (it is, after all, a personal point of view), just poll it within the community.

Whatever the result may be, implement it. And end this. Otherwise, it will just be a never-ending discussion where, unfortunately, both parties have some reason. This will go on, and on...

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1 hour ago, animats said:

On a somewhat technical note, here's a feature that could make security devices more user-friendly. Provide the ability to set the autoreturn time on a per-object basis.

The use case is a parking space. The parcel might have an autoreturn time of five minutes.  But park a vehicle on a parking space, and you get more time. No need to subdivide your parcel, which you can't do in many areas.

Fancier parking controllers could check that at least one of the avatars that arrived with the vehicle is still nearby. This implements "Free parking while shopping at ..."

Easy for users to understand. You buy a parking space object on Marketplace, set it somewhere on your own property, and it Just Works. No complex security orbs to configure. No subdividing your parcel. The parking space detects when an object has collided with it, checks that it's a vehicle (physics is on and has an avatar sitting on it), and then sets the autoreturn time.

Technical stuff:

Proposed new LSL calls:
 


llSetAutoreturnTime(key id, float secs)

float llGetAutoreturnTime(key id)
  • These do what you'd expect. Set and get the autoreturn time for an object.
  • The caller can set the autoreturn time of an object if they have the privileges required to return it.
  • Setting autoreturn time to zero means it can stay forever. For immediate return, set a small positive value.
  • Calling llGetAutoreturnTime with NULL_KEY returns the autoreturn time of the object making the call. Vehicles can use this to warn their drivers that the time limit is running out.

Comments?

You don't have this up in your MP, yet? Because I'd buy one.

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2 hours ago, IthilwenRose said:

So much this! This would be a great compromise. Have a continent that is largely able to be explored completely unrestricted and then have a small section of that continent where those that like their privacy can have it while you can still explore the parts that aren't private homes as well and then we can meet up in community areas. This would be really great! 

You mean like . . . The entire rest of the grid?

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20 minutes ago, Marsellus Walcott said:

I've said it once, and I'll say it again:

Poll it!

Instead of coming up with ideas of why "I" should be allowed to have ban lines, or free movement, etc... All of which are, to a certain degree, subjective (it is, after all, a personal point of view), just poll it within the community.

Whatever the result may be, implement it. And end this. Otherwise, it will just be a never-ending discussion where, unfortunately, both parties have some reason. This will go on, and on...

At this point, it doesn't really matter, it's not going to fix anything.

The lack of rez zones already created a gap between the "Haves & Have-Nots" and this latest move drove a big wedge into the gap and has created a division in the "community" that isn't going to go away. This is just the way things are at this point in human history.

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