At the risk of getting in trouble…

[Da5id Weatherwax]

"It's just a piece of clothing"

"Maybe we should ban X because that's got Y with it too"

"censorship"

"keyboard warriors"

yadda yadda yadda.

Dressing in a particular style to identify with a particular group has been a "thing" since humanity first started wrapping stuff around themselves to keep the cold out. When you wear this you are representing that. When I ride my motorcycle I'm not always showing a patch, but when I do I'm both representing my club and saying "mess with me, you're messing with all my brothers too." It's just a piece of clothing, but it still says something. A white robe and pointy hood are just "pieces of clothing", as are my shirts with clerical collars, or the uniforms and insignia of law enforcement and the military or punk, gothic and rocker styles. The list is literally endless.

When you say something, whether in actual words or by displaying styles or signs that have meaning, there's going to be folks that don't like what you're saying, who have bad experiences with the ideology what you say represents or who disagree with its avowed aims. Sometimes that disapproval is almost universal and you might feel nervous about saying it at all - but that's just the way societies work. You're still free to say it. You're also free to take the consequences of saying it too. That's not censorship. That's simply something that a lot of these groups are fond of saying themselves, it's "F around and find out" and if they - or their apologists - don't like it they should remember an even older proverb, that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Making "false equivalence" arguments, dismissing voices raised in objection as "keyboard warriors" or "woke" (said in that particular sneering tone) is the purest sophistry and intellectual dishonesty, since what you're actually saying is "I dont like what you say so it doesn't count" - and if you don't like them saying that, that says something about you too.

So by all means don't ban them from the grid. Let folks wear 'em all they like. If they F around, they'll find out.

[Kathlen Onyx]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It was also "not his intention" to seem to be supporting Trump with his "Make Second Life Great Again" banners.

Methinks he's either being disingenuous, or is kinda dumb.

I wasn't aware that supporting Trump was banned in Second Life. Do enlighten me.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I wasn't aware that supporting Trump was banned in Second Life. Do enlighten me.

Who suggested it was? Or that it should be? I have said neither.

What I am suggesting is that producing Trump banners is a pretty good indication of where this particular merchant's political sympathies lie, and that it is therefore more likely that he fully knew what he was doing when he put this set up for sale.

And for that reason I have no intention of ever buying anything from his company. (I don't think I have in the past, although I'm pretty sure I've demoed some boots and shirts from there.)

If a dog whistle about an extremist right wing militia doesn't bother you, then go ahead and purchase his stuff. That's your right, and I have no desire to take it from you.

I don't support bans, or call for them, and never have, for a variety of reasons, including a dislike of censorship, worries about slippery slopes, etc.

And it's also rather handy knowing exactly who the NeoNazis are.

[Coffee Pancake]

9 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I wasn't aware that supporting Trump was banned in Second Life. Do enlighten me.

https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2020/09/second-life-political-billboards-trump.html

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

28 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2020/09/second-life-political-billboards-trump.html

 

(This policy does not apply to privately-owned regions and continents.)

Not the same thing at all. The owner of the store already said that it was not his intention for that particular merchandise to represent that group.  

I think that this thread needs to be deleted because people are speculating and tarnishing a creators name without proof that what you are accusing him of doing was on purpose.  it's the same as naming and shaming any other creator but wrapped up again in some political rhetoric as always. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Pixie Kobichenko]

We, I went to bed, “woke up” (I know of a few folks on here I had to beat to the punch on that just to deflate their ball a little.). & my little thread blew up (in comparison to anything else I post).  

Like I referred to earlier, several forumites gave me pause to reconsider my initial response- impulse to believe that particular item has no place in SL as make believe fodder since it is identifiable as the “uniform’ for a hate group.

*insert the tv infomercial voice over* “But wait- there’s more!”

I thought, maybe I had over reacted.  To be clear, I have no issue with tropical print shirts.  It’s the connection of the tactical gear with the print that is identifiable with a hate group.  Kinda like how a white bed sheet is just a bed sheet till someone cuts eye holes in it & runs around the countryside (& I won’t keep typing on that thought because we all know what happened/s in that situation).

I looked up the shop on MP just now. (Not sure where the MP screenshot will appear in this)   Sometimes things really are as they appear. & I don’t need to respond further.   
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white-power-symbol-or-just-right-wing-troll    

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

We, I went to bed, “woke up” (I know of a few folks on here I had to beat to the punch on that just to deflate their ball a little.). & my little thread blew up (in comparison to anything else I post).  

Like I referred to earlier, several forumites gave me pause to reconsider my initial response- impulse to believe that particular item has no place in SL as make believe fodder since it is identifiable as the “uniform’ for a hate group.

*insert the tv infomercial voice over* “But wait- there’s more!”

I thought, maybe I had over reacted.  To be clear, I have no issue with tropical print shirts.  It’s the connection of the tactical gear with the print that is identifiable with a hate group.  Kinda like how a white bed sheet is just a bed sheet till someone cuts eye holes in it & runs around the countryside (& I won’t keep typing on that thought because we all know what happened/s in that situation).

I looked up the shop on MP just now. (Not sure where the MP screenshot will appear in this)   Sometimes things really are as they appear. & I don’t need to respond further.   
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white-power-symbol-or-just-right-wing-troll    

 

 

Ahhhh. I missed that. Thanks Pixie.

Yeah . . . I'm pretty satisfied now that we know where this person is coming from.

Yikes.

[Miguel Rowley]

1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

(This policy does not apply to privately-owned regions and continents.)

Not the same thing at all. The owner of the store already said that it was not his intention for that particular merchandise to represent that group.  

I think that this thread needs to be deleted because people are speculating and tarnishing a creators name without proof that what you are accusing him of doing was on purpose.  it's the same as naming and shaming any other creator but wrapped up again in some political rhetoric as always. 

Also, I would like to add that the creator in question has a trend on adding tactical on anything.

He made Tactical Shirts, Tactical Sweaters, Tactical Tracksuits, Tactical Jackets, damn, maybe his next release is going to be a Tactical Swimsuit. But my point is:

Is it really such a INSANE idea that maybe when creating his product he just scrolled on Google Images, saw a Hawaii Shirt and said: WOW, I didn't make this tactical yet!  knowing that he already added a Tactical aspect to clothes that have nothing to do with it also?

Because you guys aren't just accusing the creator, you guys are also accusing the FLF Team of this. And it really concerns me that If I WAS interested in buying this Hawaii Shirt I would be accused of being in a group that I didn't even knew that existed to begin with it, and I'm pretty sure that there is a lot of people who don't know about this as well.

Edited July 9, 2022 by IGarrett

[Randall Ahren]

8 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I thought, maybe I had over reacted.

You definitely over reacted, and jumped straight to organizing an attack mob. This thread should be locked and deleted. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, IGarrett said:

Is it really such a INSANE idea that maybe when creating his product he just scrolled on Google Images, saw a Hawaii Shirt and said: WOW, I didn't make this tactical yet!  knowing that he already added a Tactical aspect to clothes that have nothing to do with it also?

And the Trump banner? And the "ok" sign? They were accidents too? Coincidences?

Again, this is literally how dog whistles work.

I actually don't necessarily blame FLF for this, although I'll be sending a note card along to suggest they be a bit more watchful next time.

As for someone I might meet wearing tactical at, say, a club? Almost certainly not someone I'd want to know anyway. 

[Alwin Alcott]

Let's cancel life itself, and all imaginary problems are solved.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Let's cancel life itself, and all imaginary problems are solved.

My choosing not to buy from a particular vendor for any reason is not "cancelling" them. It is, in fact, choosing to employ the only tool I have available under capitalism: my right not to spend my money on things or people I don't like.

You are entirely free to patronize this merchant: no one is stopping you, or even trying to. I'm sure you'd look lovely and very manly in an Hawaiian shirt and tactical vest, Alwin! And it's on sale! 

Go ahead, make a statement. It's your right!

Edited July 9, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Eddy Vortex]

It must be nice to live a life unaffected by white power terror groups to easily dismiss the reality of others.  I sure would like to experience some of that; I wonder what it's like.

All clues from the flickr account of the creator in question is too coincidental to be given the benefit of the doubt. I can't unsee that.

[Da5id Weatherwax]

@Sam1 Bellisserian and @IGarrett

No.

"Not their intention to represent that group", then pull the product because they ARE representing that group. If it genuinely wasn't their intention then that's what a responsible merchant would do. If they leave it up, then guess what? They are representing that group while fibbing about "not intending to."

And even if they "add tactical to everything" then that's a statement too, isn't it?

I've met WAY too many of that type IRL to believe that folks spouting the same BS in SL are any different.

You want to weasel around and try and "make it ok" then you go right ahead. That tells me what YOU think about those groups. It's not a flattering picture.

[Miguel Rowley]

7 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

You want to weasel around and try and "make it ok" then you go right ahead. That tells me what YOU think about those groups. It's not a flattering picture.

The amount of slander on this post is amazing, but I guess i'll need to spell it out, so here it is:

I don't agree with those groups. I think racism is disgusting and it should be ended as soon as possible.

The fact that you think that every single person instead of studying every single bad group that there is are instead doing other things in life that they must be racist is just mind blowning and there is no logic to it.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, IGarrett said:

he fact that you think that every single person instead of studying every single bad group that there is are instead doing other things in life that they must be racist is just mind blowning and there is no logic to it.

I'm sorry, this is . . . garbled. Seriously, I'm not being difficult. What do you mean?

[sirhc DeSantis]

11 minutes ago, IGarrett said:

The amount of slander on this post is amazing, but I guess i'll need to spell it out, so here it is:

I don't agree with those groups. I think racism is disgusting and it should be ended as soon as possible.

The fact that you think that every single person instead of studying every single bad group that there is are instead doing other things in life that they must be racist is just mind blowning and there is no logic to it.

You may have a fair point there.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

48 minutes ago, Eddy Vortex said:

It must be nice to live a life unaffected by white power terror groups to easily dismiss the reality of others.  I sure would like to experience some of that; I wonder what it's like.

All clues from the flickr account of the creator in question is too coincidental to be given the benefit of the doubt. I can't unsee that.

The Purge references…. Not just the masks from the movie labeled as Purge but the XX on several items as well.  & the MAGA flag “parody” that has a disclaimer attached because what it references has already been addressed to the creator.  The “ok” gloves.  The original item I referenced.   Just me virtual signaling, keyboard warrioring, being woke by questioning the intent.  
Where is the line?  Maybe there isn’t one.  Shouldn’t be.  Because I whole heartedly believe in being safe to fly a pride flag, of organizing a peaceful protest.  At least those self labels makes it a little easier to recognize what you are dealing with. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Pixie Kobichenko

[Miguel Rowley]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm sorry, this is . . . garbled. Seriously, I'm not being difficult. What do you mean?

No problem, i'll try to explain better.

What I mean't was that if a person spends his time working, learning new crafts, spending time with family, and other things instead of trying to study every single bad group there is, that doesn't make him a racist person. It makes no sense in my opinion.

 

[Eowyn Southmoor]

Someone is going to have to explain to me what that glove picture is supposed to mean. Not trying to be funny, I generally don't what the issue with them is 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, IGarrett said:

No problem, i'll try to explain better.

What I mean't was that if a person spends his time working, learning new crafts, spending time with family, and other things instead of trying to study every single bad group there is, that doesn't make him a racist person. It makes no sense in my opinion.

 

I have no idea if this creator is a "racist person." He may simply know that there is a market for this kind of thing. And if so, I find that rather disturbing as well.

But I AM now convinced he knows full well what he's doing, and is consciously catering to a target market that is either racist, or not clever enough to realize that that is the actual nature of this group, and groups like it.

I don't want him "banned" or "cancelled" or "shamed." No one here has named him nor even, directly, the store. I have simply noted that I will not spend money on a merchant who consciously caters to this kind of extreme right wing audience. And I am grateful to Pixie for alerting me to this, so that I don't inadvertently patronize a merchant who makes things representing a violent and extremist political viewpoint -- whatever his views.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Someone is going to have to explain to me what that glove picture is supposed to mean. Not trying to be funny, I generally don't what the issue with them is 

The "ok" sign has been coopted as a right wing "secret hand sign."

The article Pixie also posted explains it.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Someone is going to have to explain to me what that glove picture is supposed to mean. Not trying to be funny, I generally don't what the issue with them is 

It's making that OK sign, which some group took away from the world and made it like a racist symbol,I think..

I'm not really up on it, but It's far right stuff from the little bit I read about it..

[Eowyn Southmoor]

ah ok thanks. My imagination must be terrible because I can't even see those gloves making an OK gesture

Not being American, I also had no idea about any signs being related to certain radical groups - in fact, until seeing some of the replies and links in this thread, my original reaction to the OP picture was more being horrified by the fashion style than anything else 

[Finite]

1 hour ago, IGarrett said:

Is it really such a INSANE idea that maybe when creating his product he just scrolled on Google Images, saw a Hawaii Shirt and said: WOW, I didn't make this tactical yet!  knowing that he already added a Tactical aspect to clothes that have nothing to do with it also?

He literally made gloves with the fingers making a white power symbol (I was on the fence about the Hawaiian shirts but this kind of sealed the deal for me).

1 hour ago, IGarrett said:

Because you guys aren't just accusing the creator, you guys are also accusing the FLF Team of this. And it really concerns me that If I WAS interested in buying this Hawaii Shirt I would be accused of being in a group that I didn't even knew that existed to begin with it, and I'm pretty sure that there is a lot of people who don't know about this as well.

That's why it's called a dog whistle. It's the subtle hints certain people like to give out yet get upset and (over)defensive whenever called out on it.