What would you like to see in Premium Plus?

[Persephone Emerald]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If you want SL-related unmoderated drama, I have an idea. Create an SL group for it, and do it there! SL will be more sociable that way, and us PP members have plenty of group slots for it.

Drama Club sounds like a good name to me. Get a location inworld with a little stage too. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If you want SL-related unmoderated drama, I have an idea. Create an SL group for it, and do it there! SL will be more sociable that way, and us PP members have plenty of group slots for it.

I'd free up a group slot for that (I'm basic). I always need something good to read while playing with my avatar.

[Love Zhaoying]

27 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Drama Club sounds like a good name to me. Get a location inworld with a little stage too. 

Improv Club!

[Sid Nagy]

11 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I'd like to see an unmoderated section of the Forum. I'd pay money to have access to that.

Now there are other forums on the www that handle SL topics, being out of reach of LL's moderation.
Cristiano runs one for instance.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[Alwin Alcott]

15 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I'd like to see an unmoderated section of the Forum. I'd pay money to have access to that.

however my posts sometimes get burned by moderation i think it's not bad at all to keep discussions/disputes ( it's mostly a mix anyway) between some lines of tone/content.
Some things that come up in a certain emotional state don't belong here.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Now there are other forums on the www that handle SL topics, being out of reach of LL's moderation.
Cristiano runs one for instance.

Being outside LL's moderation doesn't necessarily mean they are more permissive in the kinds of content and threads that are allowed to persist or willing to tolerate "both sides" trolling and bickering.

Over on reddit for example, we are far stricter as to what gets to hang around and straight up ban people for political trolling, personal attacks or LGBTQ "debates", not to mention a whole slew of quietly forbidden or axe-grind topics (LL vague-sux, why for no crypto/nft, girls are guys, etc etc). Mainly as there are lot's of other places on reddit to have such debates and they add nothing of value to the community often pushing out people who do want to engage with the actual subject at hand.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Being outside LL's moderation doesn't necessarily mean they are more permissive in the kinds of content and threads that are allowed to persist or willing to tolerate "both sides" trolling and bickering.

Over on reddit for example, we are far stricter as to what gets to hang around and straight up ban people for political trolling, personal attacks or LGBTQ "debates", not to mention a whole slew of quietly forbidden or axe-grind topics (LL vague-sux, why for no crypto/nft, girls are guys, etc etc). Mainly as there are lot's of other places on reddit to have such debates and they add nothing of value to the community often pushing out people who do want to engage with the actual subject at hand.

I bet the "Dark Web" has the best unmoderated Forums! That and 4chan, from what I read here.

Not that I want to find out for myself. Those people sound skurry!

[Extrude Ragu]

I'd like to see some Mainland that is actually appealing to use the extra 1024sqm on.

Like, I love SecondLife, but I can't be the only person who has looked around on the mainland for places they actually would want to set up a store or have a mainland home on and just everywhere they've been gone 'nope, nope, nope'

The trouble we have at the moment is that we have two extremes, Bellisaria and Old Mainland,

Bellisarria is nice and consistent, but it's also a bit too sterile American Suburbia which unfortunately also affects the new Sakura regions. There's not really much in the way of life going on.

Like, if I walked out of my flat IRL (Britain) I would immediately see other humans, a park, shops within walking distance. Heck I'd probably bump into one of my neighbors going down the stairs on the way out of the building. There is life and things are lively.

Walking out of a Premium home onto the streets is jarring. It feels a bit like I've surfaced from a fall-out shelter and entered a ghost town, there's no shops, park life etc, just this maze of roads that lead nowhere.

The mainland on the other hand feels like a dumpster fire where the majority of things built are failed ideas people have been throwing at the bin and forgotten to pick up. Sure there's a gem here and there but every gem is surrounded by garbage. I hope I don't sound rude, it's just the frustration in me speaking from not being able to find a nice spot to set up on the mainland.

During meet the moles, the Lindens said they couldn't do apartment living because of SL constraints. I don't understand why they couldn't just use skyboxes for the apartment interiors to fix the majority of these concerns, surely now that we have this PBR stuff in the viewer we could portal effect the outside world onto windows and vice versa so people can still have their view. Having more compact european/asian style development would make for very lively areas, cute alleyways with shopping, lively highstreets where people live on top of their stores.

[Coffee Pancake]

11 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

The mainland on the other hand feels like a dumpster fire where the majority of things built are failed ideas people have been throwing at the bin and forgotten to pick up. Sure there's a gem here and there but every gem is surrounded by garbage. I hope I don't sound rude, it's just the frustration in me speaking from not being able to find a nice spot to set up on the mainland.

SL content does not age well .. but that's not reason enough for LL to come along and delete someone's old build so long as the land is being paid for.

They're also weirdly sentimental about "old stuff" some how being historical.

11 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

During meet the moles, the Lindens said they couldn't do apartment living because of SL constraints. I don't understand why they couldn't just use skyboxes for the apartment interiors to fix the majority of these concerns, surely now that we have this PBR stuff in the viewer we could portal effect the outside world onto windows and vice versa so people can still have their view. Having more compact european/asian style development would make for very lively areas, cute alleyways with shopping, lively highstreets where people live on top of their stores.

An apartment building that put the actual interiors up in skyboxes and used exp teleports for the doors would work, would also be good for client side lag.

Really what we need are volumetric control prims.

Rez a phantom prim, set it to be a "volumetric control" and apply a load of parcel parameters to it that are then only applied when an avatar is contained inside the prim. This would allow for distinct interior spaces and a whole lot of other cool tricks.

[Nalates Urriah]

14 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Drama Club sounds like a good name to me. Get a location inworld with a little stage too. 

You forgot the soap box...

28 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I'd like to see some Mainland that is actually appealing to use the extra 1024sqm on.

Like, I love SecondLife, but I can't be the only person who has looked around on the mainland for places they actually would want to set up a store or have a mainland home on and just everywhere they've been gone 'nope, nope, nope'

The trouble we have at the moment is that we have two extremes, Bellisaria and Old Mainland,

Bellisarria is nice and consistent, but it's also a bit too sterile American Suburbia which unfortunately also affects the new Sakura regions. There's not really much in the way of life going on.

Like, if I walked out of my flat IRL (Britain) I would immediately see other humans, a park, shops within walking distance. Heck I'd probably bump into one of my neighbors going down the stairs on the way out of the building. There is life and things are lively.

Walking out of a Premium home onto the streets is jarring. It feels a bit like I've surfaced from a fall-out shelter and entered a ghost town, there's no shops, park life etc, just this maze of roads that lead nowhere.

The mainland on the other hand feels like a dumpster fire where the majority of things built are failed ideas people have been throwing at the bin and forgotten to pick up. Sure there's a gem here and there but every gem is surrounded by garbage. I hope I don't sound rude, it's just the frustration in me speaking from not being able to find a nice spot to set up on the mainland.

During meet the moles, the Lindens said they couldn't do apartment living because of SL constraints. I don't understand why they couldn't just use skyboxes for the apartment interiors to fix the majority of these concerns, surely now that we have this PBR stuff in the viewer we could portal effect the outside world onto windows and vice versa so people can still have their view. Having more compact european/asian style development would make for very lively areas, cute alleyways with shopping, lively highstreets where people live on top of their stores.

You aren't. I sometimes still look around.

When I went Premium I spent a couple of months looking. I did find some nice land but the "nice' places were expensive. Abandoned land seems to get abandoned for a reason. At least I could see why I would abandon it.

Yeah, I agree. It might be more fun to have a region in a Belli area that was commercial. I am sure it would be a headache for the Lab. But it might also be a cash cow. And it possibly could be a small shops area. I would hate to live next door to and Addams or Blueberry store.

Mainland is a chaotic mess. Other than figuring out how to implement "zoning rules" I see no way to clean it up.

My first homes in SL were apartments. I don't see the problem.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Nalates Urriah said:

My first homes in SL were apartments. I don't see the problem.

There are two problems.

Unintentional object bleed - Your neighbor has something with hover text or they have something pushed up to the wall, that then pokes though. This is both an annoyance but also a governance headache.

Unintentional communications bleed - It's very easy to accidentally end up where your neighbors are privy to everything that goes on inside what you think is a contained and private space.

I might be forced to put up with my RL neighbors "goings on", but given the choice I have no desire to recreate that in SL.

5 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Mainland is a chaotic mess. Other than figuring out how to implement "zoning rules" I see no way to clean it up.

I think the best LL can do is try to consolidate parcels as they get abandoned and then clean them up into nicer distinct parcels before putting them back on the market. Sort of a factory reset for the land.

I get patch's point that not all mainland can be a stretch of idyllic coastline, but that doesn't mean inland isn't without value. Being forced to conform to the lay of the land can produce some really nice and unique builds.

[Love Zhaoying]

Regarding Mainland "chaos": sometimes it's a matter of what you've either become accustomed to, became desensitized to, etc. The parcel I am looking at has a neighbor with a "dark church". Not "Satanic" I think (though I didn't go inside), but ironically "Anti-" at least. Am I offended? Not really. They have a lot of cooler creepy stuff out too. I can Rez a nicer creepy or non-creepy church if I want. They've got a big sign in the sky that shows on the map, but I don't see a lot of other issues yet. Still haven't jumped on it..

[Anaiya Ahren]

My big problem with mainland is linden trees.  Most of them are ugly, far too many of them ruin parcels I'd otherwise be interested in by blocking the view, and they can't be de-rendered which to me is the difference between mildly annoying and a deal breaker.

[Claireschen Hesten]

15 minutes ago, Anaiya Ahren said:

My big problem with mainland is linden trees.  Most of them are ugly, far too many of them ruin parcels I'd otherwise be interested in by blocking the view, and they can't be de-rendered which to me is the difference between mildly annoying and a deal breaker.

If you have the advanced menu activated (can't remember the shortcut but the search in FS will bring up the option to activate it) you can go in to "Rendering types" and click on "Tree" to remove system trees you will have to do this every time you log in though
Edit: it only affects what you see

Edited June 26, 2022 by Claireschen Hesten

[Luna Bliss]

I need clarification about mesh uploads being part of this Premium Plus Package. Is this a for sure thing with the only question being when exactly it will happen?  Or is the ability just a 'maybe'?

[Paul Hexem]

A version of Belli zoned to allow light commercial activity like small stores and shops, that'd have me looking at my options again. Give it that small town main street feel. That'd be pretty good.

[Chic Aeon]

7 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

A version of Belli zoned to allow light commercial activity like small stores and shops, that'd have me looking at my options again. Give it that small town main street feel. That'd be pretty good.

That was more or less in the "road map" and then disappeared. If my memory on the timeline is correct that was before Premium Plus was announced (like two years ago).  Hard to say if both were on the road map at the same time, but honestly I think that would be a BIG draw for some creators -- needing to be Premium Plus in order to claim a storefront . And more likely that those storefronts would get used than just claimed and sit empty. 

 

 

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I need clarification about mesh uploads being part of this Premium Plus Package. Is this a for sure thing with the only question being when exactly it will happen?  Or is the ability just a 'maybe'?

If you scroll down: "Mesh / Animesh upload fees will change for Premium Plus will be adjusted in the future."

https://modemworld.me/2022/06/21/sl19b-mtl-patch-linden-premium-plus-and-more-video/

"Adjusted" can mean a very little discount or a large discount or anything in between.

LL has stopped using "soon" and replaced it with "In the future". 😒

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

If you scroll down: "Mesh / Animesh upload fees will change for Premium Plus will be adjusted in the future."

This only now aroused my curiosity. Why would this not have been ready for the Plus roll-out?

I mean, I don't care about the fees one way or another; I only upload mesh rarely and under extreme duress—so it's no factor whatsoever in my own decision making about Plus. But why the heck wasn't this ready?

My initial theory was that the whole mesh upload process is to undergo radical change with some magical LoD automation or something, and the change will radically alter fees for all, Plus or not. No point rolling out a fee schedule that will be obsolete Real Soon Now anyway.

But I made up that "explanation" based on half-remembered blog posts about something I neither understand nor care about. It's probably wrong.

So have they told us why it wasn't ready?

(If not, that would rather deepen the mystery, no?)

[Persephone Emerald]

7 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I'd like to see some Mainland that is actually appealing to use the extra 1024sqm on.

[snip]

The mainland on the other hand feels like a dumpster fire where the majority of things built are failed ideas people have been throwing at the bin and forgotten to pick up. Sure there's a gem here and there but every gem is surrounded by garbage. I hope I don't sound rude, it's just the frustration in me speaking from not being able to find a nice spot to set up on the mainland.

[snip]

6 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

[snip]

Yeah, I agree. It might be more fun to have a region in a Belli area that was commercial. I am sure it would be a headache for the Lab. But it might also be a cash cow. And it possibly could be a small shops area. I would hate to live next door to and Addams or Blueberry store.

Mainland is a chaotic mess. Other than figuring out how to implement "zoning rules" I see no way to clean it up.

4 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

A version of Belli zoned to allow light commercial activity like small stores and shops, that'd have me looking at my options again. Give it that small town main street feel. That'd be pretty good.

4 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

That was more or less in the "road map" and then disappeared. If my memory on the timeline is correct that was before Premium Plus was announced (like two years ago).  Hard to say if both were on the road map at the same time, but honestly I think that would be a BIG draw for some creators -- needing to be Premium Plus in order to claim a storefront . And more likely that those storefronts would get used than just claimed and sit empty. 

I think Patch(?) said having commercial activity in the residential regions would make them laggy.  This was in response to someone on the forum saying we should be able to have tip jars for DJs at Bellisseria events. I think we should be able to have 1 tip jar, with no floating text, particles or sound spam/ parcel to help those creating art galleries, cafes, support group meeting areas, social awareness offices, and community events with performers and DJs. However, I agree that we should not allow a bunch of vendors and floating text all over Bellisseria. A rotating monthly community yard sale of old gacha items and stuff we've made ourselves could be fun though.

Here's my idea for a next step out of Bellisseria.

The LDPW can continue the Linden roads though areas of abandoned land or land for which the owner is willing to relocate. They can use some of the adjacent abandoned land to make small shopping centers with 512 m parcels that Premium and Premium Plus uses can take as part of their total tier allowance. These shopping centers will have a Bellisseria quality look with mesh building and landscaping. A Premium subscriber might have a 512 m Newbrook home and a 512 m shop on a mainland road. A Premium Plus subscriber might have a 1024 home and 2 small shops on separate continents. As long as the person is only using the tier they get for their subscription, they can use it on these LDPW created homes and shops. If they want more land or a bigger shop, they'll still have to buy tier or an island for that. The idea is to help new and small creators, not give a handout to the big, established ones. 

Small parcels can be developed on mainland to make it look more attractive. These might be a small park here and there, small shopping centers for Premium subscribers, or LL help and information centers. We obviously can't remove other people's builds just because someone thinks they're ugly, but LL can replace the old plants with more attractive and maybe more resource friendly ones. This facelift for mainland will help encourage people to buy and develop more parcels on it, which of course would mean more income for LL. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Crim Mip]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

This only now aroused my curiosity. Why would this not have been ready for the Plus roll-out?

I mean, I don't care about the fees one way or another; I only upload mesh rarely and under extreme duress—so it's no factor whatsoever in my own decision making about Plus. But why the heck wasn't this ready?

My initial theory was that the whole mesh upload process is to undergo radical change with some magical LoD automation or something, and the change will radically alter fees for all, Plus or not. No point rolling out a fee schedule that will be obsolete Real Soon Now anyway.

But I made up that "explanation" based on half-remembered blog posts about something I neither understand nor care about. It's probably wrong.

So have they told us why it wasn't ready?

(If not, that would rather deepen the mystery, no?)

From what Patch Linden said, the fee for mesh uploads uses an entirely different system since it normally computes cost based on polygon  count at the time of uploading, it's not a set fee. They have to update that to have multiple price tiers and be able to check who is at what tier. They are also in the middle of another change to the mesh upload system so I imagine they want to make one change at a time and test to make sure nothing breaks. It wouldn't surprise me if they raise the prices for uploads for free accounts at some point either.

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Crim Mip said:

It wouldn't surprise me if they raise the prices for uploads for free accounts at some point either.

I think we got a glimpse of that on day1 of PP, of which, LL quickly fixed and claimed it was a mistake.

I'm referring to the L$25 texture,sound,animation upload fee for Basic accounts.

L$25 only exists as a divorce fee, so I find it strange it was referenced with upload pricing.

I think at the time of PP's release, LL had many fallback plans in mind in case it didn't take off.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Lucia Nightfire

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I think Patch(?) said having commercial activity in the residential regions would make them laggy.  This was in response to someone on the forum saying we should be able to have tip jars for DJs at Bellisseria events.

I think we should be able to have 1 tip jar, with no floating text, particles or sound spam/ parcel to help those creating art galleries, cafes, support group meeting areas, social awareness offices, and community events with performers and DJs. However, I agree that we should not allow a bunch of vendors and floating text all over Bellisseria. A rotating monthly community yard sale of old gacha items and stuff we've made ourselves could be fun though.

Here's my idea for a next step out of Bellisseria.

The LDPW can continue the Linden roads though areas of abandoned land or land for which the owner is willing to relocate. They can use some of the adjacent abandoned land to make small shopping centers with 512 m parcels that Premium and Premium Plus uses can take as part of their total tier allowance. These shopping centers will have a Bellisseria quality look with mesh building and landscaping. A Premium subscriber might have a 512 m Newbrook home and a 512 m shop on a mainland road. A Premium Plus subscriber might have a 1024 home and 2 small shops on separate continents. As long as the person is only using the tier they get for their subscription, they can use it on these LDPW created homes and shops. If they want more land or a bigger shop, they'll still have to buy tier or an island for that. The idea is to help new and small creators, not give a handout to the big, established ones. 

Small parcels can be developed on mainland to make it look more attractive. These might be a small park here and there, small shopping centers for Premium subscribers, or LL help and information centers. We obviously can't remove other people's builds just because someone thinks they're ugly, but LL can replace the old plants with more attractive and maybe more resource friendly ones. This facelift for mainland will help encourage people to buy and develop more parcels on it, which of course would mean more income for LL. 

Well Patch has said many things over time. Presumably mirroring meeting conversations. And yes Patch was the one saying that commercial areas would come and then something that sounded like yard sales that residents would rent (I am guessing extra) for short periods like a week.  All this is on the forums "somewhere" or was :D.  But as we well know plans change sometimes often and sometimes abbruptly. Folks in Sansar certainly got used to it.  

 

Honestly there is so very much lag in Belli from the heavy mesh and textures some folks use that the non-commercial argument  doesn't make all that much sense.  I was never FOR the commercial areas mind you, just watching the conversations.  It really looked like that commercial plan was going to happen (maybe over a year ago or more) when that train station was parked for-e-ver on a large plot in the middle of residential.   I am not sure what happened to that. It was likely not long after I moved out of Belli. 

 

As I understand it from Mole chatter (brief comments not long conversations) many are already working long hours to get what needs to be done --- done. So I doubt that mainland improvement projects are at the top of the list.  There have been mainland communities that have worked to keep things looking good there.   I am over at Umber now which is next to Purple and much of that area looks good for mainland. My sim mate and I have tried to do our part to beautify and I have made several open areas where people can stop by and enjoy the open spaces.   

 

So little by little. As more folks move to mainland for their 2048 or 4096 plus 400 in group plot, hopefully things will get a bit nicer looking. Getting rid of the abandoned houses from folks who left many years ago would be one good step IMO -- and only costs LL a bit of dinero to pay a mole and maybe a clerical work to track things down.  

 

[Anaiya Ahren]

Quote

If you have the advanced menu activated (can't remember the shortcut but the search in FS will bring up the option to activate it) you can go in to "Rendering types" and click on "Tree" to remove system trees you will have to do this every time you log in though
Edit: it only affects what you see

I had no idea this was possible - thank you!

[Marianne Little]

7 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I am over at Umber now which is next to Purple and much of that area looks good for mainland. My sim mate and I have tried to do our part to beautify and I have made several open areas where people can stop by and enjoy the open spaces.  

 

I admit to sneaking around. That is some really fine mainland. When you have so much mainland, you do not need an estate. Even if some guy put up an eyesore, it is not so close, it can mostly be solved by lower draw distance. That's why I wished it was more types of Premium, one that was aimed at people who wanted land and that had included land for free tier as its main feature. The Plus we got now is good for those who need uploads.

The land for rent over on the other side of the canal, in Purple, is very nice decorated and set up. It is not expensive to rent there either. If I had not so good other places to rent, I would jump over there.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Marianne Little