What I see ruining the SL economy

[rocksBoxer]

Let us start with people claiming, "No way can I buy anything over 75L, I just do not have it," with your Maitreya body and the current tending mesh 5k head while living in the weekly RP rental.
Honestly, I left for years and returned to a flooded market and 50L weekends. The value to spend 40 plus hours in a week crafting in z brush and blender, scripting for hours creating HUDs for options is just not worth it. There is no fix to the decline of Secondlife if it continues on this course. Sorry folks, but this is how the world works; from life-saving meds to makeup, you get what you pay for, and progress comes out of the reward. Ladies, do you buy the dollar store makeup? Hell no, so why would you do the same to your avatar.
You can hate on me all you like, but that is my opinion.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

So there are already two other threads making this point here and here.

The second one is a kind of survey about this problem of "too many weekend sales" and "too many events in general."

Few people disagree with you, but what's the solution/

You could ask creators to fall on their swords and cease putting out items for $50 or $75 and undercutting their value. Then they will fall out of the view of customers and likely have no sales at all.

They could try making a group and charging $500 -- or maybe $0. They could have flash sales that only the group members find out about. They can have limited edition items at select events. They can close their store and sell only on the MP.

And all these things and more are being tried, but they don't make as much revenue as the cheap sales, so they keep going back to them -- they are some sales, anyway.

Are you a creator of maker by any chance?

In any event, I don't see any solution until eventually there is a course correction, new events get ignored, old events happen less often, top creators cease taking place in weekend sale madness, or at least some of the sales, and only show at select events, etc.

 

[Hunny Bunny]

This is assuming that the value of L$ is the same for every country SL serves. 

[Sid Nagy]

SL is NOT created for people to make a RL living out of it.  It is only a POSSIBILITY to do so, some try, a few succeed.
Many don't and are a merchant/creator more or less as a roleplayer, a hobbyist.
The fun of creating is their main goal. Getting some L$ out of it a sign of appreciation.
They are like the endless number of club owners, dj's, hosts, dancers etc. and they all know that their business is a money sink and accept that.
The time spend to create/work in SL would bring in a lot more money when spend with burger flipping at McD or as a news paper boy in RL.
Breaking even on SL tier/rent and some pocket money to spend in SL is the dreamed target for most of us.

There is NO ENTITLEMENT that you can make a living out of SL. (Except for the people at LL of course.)
So don't tell others how to do their business or not. Find your way in the jungle and if the outcome doesn't suit you, don't be a merchant or creator in SL.

Enjoying SL to the max as a consumer costs money, just like almost every hobby, but there should be no need to leave half your RL salary in SL only to cater creators and merchants who think they need to make their RL income here.

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[Arielle Popstar]

When joblessness and and inflation start increasing then disposable income decreases. Guess where people start pinching pennies to make up for the shortfall.

[Ceka Cianci]

Just because something is priced higher doesn't mean it's better quality..

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 hours ago, rocksBoxer said:

Ladies, do you buy the dollar store makeup?

Actually, yes I do.  I'm definitely a bargain hunter when it comes to spending my RL money on clothing and accessories.

I still don't use a mesh head in SL (though that is about more than just cost), and if someone had not gifted me a mesh body, I'm not sure how long after my return I would have waited before buying one myself.

I'm not here to make sure that others make money off of me.  SL is one of my fun activities.  If is stops being fun or starts costing me too much, then I'll leave.

[LilNosferatu]

4 hours ago, rocksBoxer said:

Ladies, do you buy the dollar store makeup? Hell no

You should also keep in mind we're currently going through a pandemic. Many people don't have the disposable income they did a few years ago, and lots of people were stuck at home and perhaps decided to take up some new skills to learn things like Blender. Maitreya was only L$1500 on Black Friday, and quality mesh heads are occasionally given out for free, or on sale, at events/promotions. A patient penny pincher could definitely put together a full mesh avatar for pretty cheap.

SL isn't meant to cash out the equivalent of a RL job's income. It's easy to blame the customers for being lazy, cheap, entitled, etc but please remember they might also be struggling right now and not have as much spending money as they used to, and just trying to escape into SL for a bit.

I have noticed though, that more niche communities within SL haven't suffered the effects of market oversaturation and are still reasonably priced. Maybe try to find a more targeted audience for your creations? There's tons of fashion types that are criminally underrepresented in the SL market if you're a clothes designer. There's tons of furniture/decor aesthetics that go ignored, if you're into making that. The furry community and MLP community are super active and thriving and hungry for new quality items because most creators wanna focus on the overcrowded mainstream. If I ever got around to learning Blender and Z Brush, I'd totally go for the alternative communities that need more of a selection, where there is a high demand and low supply.

[Akane Nacht]

4 hours ago, rocksBoxer said:

you get what you pay for

In SL this doesn't necessarily hold true. I've got some splendid completely free things - mesh head, fatpacks of beautifully made hairs, finely detailed furnishings, a lovely golden animated mesh phoenix pet, to name a few. I've bought stuff for 10L that is awesome, and stuff for 200L that is meh. This has been the case for years, so it seems to be a feature of the SL market. I think if creators want to keep relevant, they simply need to be innovative - don't make the same genre of stuff over and over. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I thought we were all about "letting the free market decide"? It seems to have "decided."

My own suspicion is that the issues in SL, which are in many ways very different from those that impact upon the RL economy, have essentially deformed the economic model here, but that the tendencies we see at work -- especially the growth of a few really large and successful businesses that are more or less crowding out smaller creators -- are actually entirely predictable, given the application of a mostly non-regulated economic model to a very artificial economic environment.

As I think I've said before, there is plenty of evidence that a pure free market approach had a lot to do with the initial success of SL's economy, but I have a feeling that it is now working against it.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Sid Nagy]

After 15 years in SL I can tell you price says nothing.
I've seen beautiful made freebies, way under priced goods and way over priced ones and everything in between.
And that has always been the case. That is not something new to the market.
The name of the creator gives no guaranties either, although there are lots who reach a steady level with almost everything they make/sell.
If one is willing to invest a good chunk of time to search, that will be balsam for own wallet.
Especially when it is like mine made out of onion leather. I start to cry spontaneously every time I open it and look at the content (or the lack of it).

Edited January 19, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[Ayashe Ninetails]

5 minutes ago, LilNosferatu said:

I have noticed though, that more niche communities within SL haven't suffered the effects of market oversaturation and are still reasonably priced. Maybe try to find a more targeted audience for your creations? There's tons of fashion types that are criminally underrepresented in the SL market if you're a clothes designer. There's tons of furniture/decor aesthetics that go ignored, if you're into making that. The furry community and MLP community are super active and thriving and hungry for new quality items because most creators wanna focus on the overcrowded mainstream. If I ever got around to learning Blender and Z Brush, I'd totally go for the alternative communities that need more of a selection, where there is a high demand and low supply.

All of this. The Seraphim-style mainstream shopping experience is one thing, but if you're looking for clothing/accessories outside of that (*raises hand furiously*), these events and sales will barely offer you very much. If a designer wants to charge more than the flood of typical 50L-75L event/weekend sales allow, they could enter the goth, punk, unisex/nonbinary, fantasy, cyberpunk, athleisure, vintage, boho, grunge, glam rock, techwear, formal/black tie, business wear, cosplay, 1920s, rockabilly, etc. etc. etc. fashion markets and make a killing. Primarily because of me - I need ALL of this in my life. Please, take my money. Thank you. 😂

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 hours ago, rocksBoxer said:

Let us start with people claiming, "No way can I buy anything over 75L, I just do not have it," with your Maitreya body and the current tending mesh 5k head while living in the weekly RP rental.
Honestly, I left for years and returned to a flooded market and 50L weekends. The value to spend 40 plus hours in a week crafting in z brush and blender, scripting for hours creating HUDs for options is just not worth it. There is no fix to the decline of Secondlife if it continues on this course. Sorry folks, but this is how the world works; from life-saving meds to makeup, you get what you pay for, and progress comes out of the reward. Ladies, do you buy the dollar store makeup? Hell no, so why would you do the same to your avatar.
You can hate on me all you like, but that is my opinion.

 

I do actually buy dollar store makeup AND generic brand groceries sometimes as well. (not peanut butter because the generic is gross) Do you know why? Because they are often times the exact same thing as the brand and all you are doing is paying for the name. 

When you say that you wouldn't skimp on life saving medications and make up so why would you do the same for your avatar? It's very simple. My avatar is made up of fake images. It doesn't have a beating heart, it can't feel and my avatar can't die.  

Yes, people spend money on their avatar body and head because that is the foundation of the avatar and should be more expensive. If I see makeup that costs 50L compared to 499L and that 50L make up looks great you can bet I'm buying the 50L one, every single time.

What you need to do is come back to reality.

[Leahndra]

5 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

All of this. The Seraphim-style mainstream shopping experience is one thing, but if you're looking for clothing/accessories outside of that (*raises hand furiously*), these events and sales will barely offer you very much. If a designer wants to charge more than the flood of typical 50L-75L event/weekend sales allow, they could enter the goth, punk, unisex/nonbinary, fantasy, cyberpunk, athleisure, vintage, boho, grunge, glam rock, techwear, formal/black tie, business wear, cosplay, 1920s, rockabilly, etc. etc. etc. fashion markets and make a killing. Primarily because of me - I need ALL of this in my life. Please, take my money. Thank you. 😂

 

👍👍👍

Goth, business wear, formal (especially for men, i think there are only 3 good formal outfits?) ... i would buy it all

[Nalates Urriah]

5 hours ago, rocksBoxer said:

Let us start with people claiming, "No way can I buy anything over 75L, I just do not have it," with your Maitreya body and the current tending mesh 5k head while living in the weekly RP rental.
Honestly, I left for years and returned to a flooded market and 50L weekends. The value to spend 40 plus hours in a week crafting in z brush and blender, scripting for hours creating HUDs for options is just not worth it. There is no fix to the decline of Secondlife if it continues on this course. Sorry folks, but this is how the world works; from life-saving meds to makeup, you get what you pay for, and progress comes out of the reward. Ladies, do you buy the dollar store makeup? Hell no, so why would you do the same to your avatar.
You can hate on me all you like, but that is my opinion.

...and a wonderfully uninformed opinion it is.

[Silent Mistwalker]

37 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

All of this. The Seraphim-style mainstream shopping experience is one thing, but if you're looking for clothing/accessories outside of that (*raises hand furiously*), these events and sales will barely offer you very much. If a designer wants to charge more than the flood of typical 50L-75L event/weekend sales allow, they could enter the goth, punk, unisex/nonbinary, fantasy, cyberpunk, athleisure, vintage, boho, grunge, glam rock, techwear, formal/black tie, business wear, cosplay, 1920s, rockabilly, etc. etc. etc. fashion markets and make a killing. Primarily because of me - I need ALL of this in my life. Please, take my money. Thank you. 😂

 

 

*starts rummaging through Inventory for transferable clothing...

[Ayashe Ninetails]

31 minutes ago, Leahndra said:

👍👍👍

Goth, business wear, formal (especially for men, i think there are only 3 good formal outfits?) ... i would buy it all

Right? How fast would I rush to a brand new suit shop for women? 

I only own two designed for Maitreya and spend more time than I care to admit stuffing my female form into menswear fit for Jake or Legacy Male.

But hey, I'm an optimist - I think there's still a ton of opportunity in SL. Events are definitely overwhelming at this point, but if you're a designer willing to branch out, you will manage to find a customer wanting to support you at regular prices (hi, it's me, your favorite future customer!).

[Leahndra]

27 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Right? How fast would I rush to a brand new suit shop for women? 

I only own two designed for Maitreya and spend more time than I care to admit stuffing my female form into menswear fit for Jake or Legacy Male.

But hey, I'm an optimist - I think there's still a ton of opportunity in SL. Events are definitely overwhelming at this point, but if you're a designer willing to branch out, you will manage to find a customer wanting to support you at regular prices (hi, it's me, your favorite future customer!).

I just bought a suit  of a well known creator for men's fashion. 

[Rowan Amore]

35 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Right? How fast would I rush to a brand new suit shop for women? 

I only own two designed for Maitreya and spend more time than I care to admit stuffing my female form into menswear fit for Jake or Legacy Male.

But hey, I'm an optimist - I think there's still a ton of opportunity in SL. Events are definitely overwhelming at this point, but if you're a designer willing to branch out, you will manage to find a customer wanting to support you at regular prices (hi, it's me, your favorite future customer!).

Check out Hotdog.  They have a few menswear items fit for Maitreya.

[Coffee Pancake]

Oh no .. the free market fails when applied to systems that lack scarcity.

ROFL 

Welcome to the new world.

[animats]

Well, if someone is showing merch at an event, at least you know they're still in SL. The curse of Marketplace is items where you go to "See Item in Second Life" and it's no longer there. I hate ending up falling in space, or in someone's house, following those links. Marketplace needs a background job which checks those links. Scan the destination sim for the UUIDs of objects being sold. If nothing matches, the link should be marked as a dead link and the store owner informed.

[Tarani Tempest]

48 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Right? How fast would I rush to a brand new suit shop for women? 

I only own two designed for Maitreya and spend more time than I care to admit stuffing my female form into menswear fit for Jake or Legacy Male.

But hey, I'm an optimist - I think there's still a ton of opportunity in SL. Events are definitely overwhelming at this point, but if you're a designer willing to branch out, you will manage to find a customer wanting to support you at regular prices (hi, it's me, your favorite future customer!).

Yasum has gorgeous suit that is fit female bodies (Legacy and Maitreya) called Fiona

[Hunny Bunny]

2 minutes ago, animats said:

Well, if someone is showing merch at an event, at least you know they're still in SL. The curse of Marketplace is items where you go to "See Item in Second Life" and it's no longer there. I hate ending up falling in space, or in someone's house, following those links. Marketplace needs a background job which checks those links. Scan the destination sim for the UUIDs of objects being sold. If nothing matches, the link should be marked as a dead link and the store owner informed.

Would it not be easier if someone followed a "dead link" to have a way to report it as such?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Check out Hotdog.  They have a few menswear items fit for Maitreya.

That's true, thanks! I haven't been there in a bit. I'll hop over there later and take a peek.

 

1 minute ago, Tarani Tempest said:

Yasum has gorgeous suit that is fit female bodies (Legacy and Maitreya) called Fiona

Ahhh! I shall check here, too! You guys rock ❤️

[Tarani Tempest]

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

All of this. The Seraphim-style mainstream shopping experience is one thing, but if you're looking for clothing/accessories outside of that (*raises hand furiously*), these events and sales will barely offer you very much. If a designer wants to charge more than the flood of typical 50L-75L event/weekend sales allow, they could enter the goth, punk, unisex/nonbinary, fantasy, cyberpunk, athleisure, vintage, boho, grunge, glam rock, techwear, formal/black tie, business wear, cosplay, 1920s, rockabilly, etc. etc. etc. fashion markets and make a killing. Primarily because of me - I need ALL of this in my life. Please, take my money. Thank you. 😂

 

TBH my best sales in the last year, were sets I made for Fantasy and Cyberpunk Event/Fairs.  I also adore making stuff for those types of events, because it is fun for me.  That they sell well , is icing on the cake.