New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Adeon Writer said:

@Patch Linden I know you're probably hounded with questions and can't answer them all, but I feel this is an important "What's Next" question:

Now that gachas are banned, the next thing that's going to come along are "timed purchases" where a vendor just shows a random item that won't change unless someone buys it, and afterwhich it will roll to be another random item. The percentages will be shown and rarities will exist.

So the question becomes, should you buy the thing, so that it re-rolls and becomes something else you'd actually want?

Since every purchase 100% gets you what was shown, it obeys the restriction in your blog post. Essentially it's a gatcha script, but it always shows you want you're about to get, so there's no "randomness" or mystery involved in the transaction.

Are these allowed in Second Life? An official response would be appreciated, I know quite a few people who plan to do this in light of this news, so if it's not allowed, it would be very helpful to know.

Thank you!

I predict this as well. It seems completely legal to me as you're buying what's displayed.

It also has traffic boosting potential.

My only gripe about this format would be if changeover times/countdowns are not displayed, else, you can lose money at inopportune times.

There is also the problem of "snipers", but since there is no "only sell to" pay mechanic that allows a customer to interface with a payment object and that payment method be established, snipers have been and will continue to be a problem.

[ArikTheRed]

Sorta personally sad for me, because Lovecraft Festival has long enjoyed Fuzzbutt's Gacha Shack... for all our merchants who wished to be part...  And now, Fuzz has to think of something else fun as a sideline part of future Fests...

 

 

[Faly Breen]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Random spin GAMBLING machines have been banned in SL forever - they are now skill games. Pay to play skill games can not be pure random chance.

i said that related to the gacha fatpacks. some people used gachas just for fun as they "strolled by" and just took a draw/spin at them and "took what they got". If they would now have the choice of either buying overpriced FATPACKS or nothing, guess what most will go for now...

[peterlocke]

No loss as far as I'm concerned. All for it.

[Faly Breen]

1 minute ago, Finite said:

who's with meh?

 

again as i said and repeated myself so often, it all matters if gachas are based on an equal base of luck or are literally based on droprates. one should still be ok, the other one should be gone.

[Kylie Ansia]

What about SLODERS they are a game of chance you trying to say they will be gone next smh 

[diamond Marchant]

6 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

the combination of the act that both paying in to then receive something back by chance that is one of the issues at hand.

Patch, when you do your FAQ, please address

1. What laws in what countries and what regulatory climate are you concerned with? Has anyone be convicted or lost a lawsuit so far?

2. If you use the criterion of "paying and receiving something  back by chance"... then will you also outlaw the following:

- Current Linden Home allocation

- Sploders

- 7Seas Fishing using bait

[Rowan Amore]

49 minutes ago, Adeon Writer said:

@Patch Linden I know you're probably hounded with questions and can't answer them all, but I feel this is an important "What's Next" question:

Now that gachas are banned, the next thing that's going to come along are "timed purchases" where a vendor just shows a random item that won't change unless someone buys it, and afterwhich it will roll to be another random item. The percentages will be shown and rarities will exist.

So the question becomes, should you buy the thing, so that it re-rolls and becomes something else you'd actually want?

Since every purchase 100% gets you what was shown, it obeys the restriction in your blog post. Essentially it's a gatcha script, but it always shows you want you're about to get, so there's no "randomness" or mystery involved in the transaction.

Are these allowed in Second Life? An official response would be appreciated, I know quite a few people who plan to do this in light of this news, so if it's not allowed, it would be very helpful to know.

Thank you!

That's essentially, a vendor.  I sure wouldn't buy 3 or 4 things I don't want in order to purchase what I do want.  Why would anyone?  As I already said, why not just make that one item a rare/limited edition and sell it for 10 x more?

[Faly Breen]

Just now, Kylie Ansia said:

What about SLODERS they are a game of chance you trying to say they will be gone next smh 

were those not forbitten since...3-4 years in sl anyway?

[CelestineDemetria]

49 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

When I buy an ordinary white housecat, with the hope that if I breed it with an ordinary spotted tomcat, I will get a MEGA someday, that's not like a gatcha. I buy something I see. What happens next isn't in the purview of the policy or putative law. It's not a machine with random deliveries of things you can't know you will get or not get. My bet is that they will not come for breedables, as they don't have to, there isn't a law in the US, the application of the California law is uncertain, and they will not kill their golden goose sooner than they have to.

I was not meaning after secondary breeding of those Items, but to get some of the LE specialty coats, genders or sizes you do need to "play the odds" when buying from the Original Breedable Creator.

Yes, you know for example its a cat in the creators box.  After just knowing it's a cat, you as a purchaser have no idea of gender, coat ,size, or traits. ( From the Original Items from the Breedable Creator Company's). 

So, as a Buyer from the Original Breedable Creator. The purchaser needs to keep pumping money into the machine to get the desired object or traits. Cause it's all Odds and Randomized. (Scripts)

Ex: like getting 2 females in a box when you need to have a M/F to breed. So, then you have to buy another set and play the odds again, just to MAYBE get a Male and you probably get another set of Females. So you keep chasing what you want or need from the Original Breedable Creator. To make a set.

If that makes any sense.(Haha) 

[Bloodsong Termagant]

i have a specific question... which i suppose will get lost in the discussion.  but anyway.

 

i have a couple sets of novelty avatars (get your mind out of the gutter!)  they're in a vendor for 50L each. 

right next to them is a gacha machine, with the same items, all the same rarity, for the same 50L.  what it's FOR... is for people like me who want a cheap novelty item, but can't decide which one to get, and just want to get a random one.

 

i guess that's still technically 'illegal,' even though a person could decide to buy an exact item, for the same price, at the vendor right next to it?  :/

 

[Grim Hijinks]

What worries me about this whole thing is that creators will resort to methods such as FOMO (Fear Or Missing Out aka limited time sales of items) to suppliment this, which is honestly just as bad and leads to scalping.

[ArikTheRed]

4 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Patch, when you do your FAQ, please address

1. What laws in what countries and what regulatory climate are you concerned with? Has anyone be convicted or lost a lawsuit so far?

2. If you use the criterion of "paying and receiving something  back by chance"... then will you also outlaw the following:

- Current Linden Home allocation

- Sploders

- 7Seas Fishing using bait

Oh crud... 7Sesas FIshing has been a longtime fun-fun event on so many regions!

Edited August 3, 2021 by ArikTheRed

[Drayke Newall]

4 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Patch, when you do your FAQ, please address

1. What laws in what countries and what regulatory climate are you concerned with? Has anyone be convicted or lost a lawsuit so far?

Near every country except America right now is looking at banning these systems. As to anyone convicted or lost EA, Activision etc have and have had their chance lootboxes banned in many countries.

:EDIT:

You are not supposed to have SPLODERS that give a random prize after a payment has been received that has been banned for many years.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[DaddyBootz]

7 hours ago, Kokiron said:

"Ok team, how can we make Second Life even more dead?" 🤦There goes most of the popular shopping events.

So true! You guys are only cutting your own throats! Now I have less of a reason to come into SL. Very foolish decision!

[Yuki Suki]

3 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Patch, when you do your FAQ, please address

1. What laws in what countries and what regulatory climate are you concerned with? Has anyone be convicted or lost a lawsuit so far?

2. If you use the criterion of "paying and receiving something  back by chance"... then will you also outlaw the following:

- Current Linden Home allocation

- Sploders

- 7Seas Fishing using bait

Linden homes are not game of chance.
You select trailer home, you get trailer home. You get the house your select, It is not random. You do not get a different home or a part of the home (like just a roof for example).

[AriaMoonlit]

2 minutes ago, Grim Hijinks said:

What worries me about this whole thing is that creators will resort to methods such as FOMO (Fear Or Missing Out aka limited time sales of items) to suppliment this, which is honestly just as bad and leads to scalping.

Sims are going to break and over load with shoppers dying to get in to buy that one limited item they want . The chaos especially those that shop and just afk in events or stores when something/sale/limited sale is going on.

[JUSTUS Palianta]

@Patch LindenCan we please have that updated FAQ, people have made some very good points in this thread that require clarification for the future of our businesses, and the future of Linden Labs business.

 

[Fionalein]

8 minutes ago, Kylie Ansia said:

What about SLODERS they are a game of chance you trying to say they will be gone next smh 

Just report them, IMHO they already fall under the gambling regulation.

[xBebeGirlx]

Well as a sim owner that has a market place here for the resale of gachas & we also have a few creators too.. well to say this shook us all up is an understatement.. I myself have been trying to absorb this info since I heard it... 

We gotta look at it positively.. for one we are not LL  we are not the bosses they are. I along with I am sure many many others have 100s if not 1000s of gachas still in our pockets. There will always be resale. Now those items will be more rare and worth more. Another thought now the creators of our gachas could sale them individually. More Ls for the rares etc.. and limit the editions.

We can make it work out somehow we always do

[KT Kingsley]

9 minutes ago, Bloodsong Termagant said:

i have a specific question... which i suppose will get lost in the discussion.  but anyway.

 

i have a couple sets of novelty avatars (get your mind out of the gutter!)  they're in a vendor for 50L each. 

right next to them is a gacha machine, with the same items, all the same rarity, for the same 50L.  what it's FOR... is for people like me who want a cheap novelty item, but can't decide which one to get, and just want to get a random one.

 

i guess that's still technically 'illegal,' even though a person could decide to buy an exact item, for the same price, at the vendor right next to it? 

 

default
{
    state_entry ()
    {
        llSetText ("Can't decide?\nClick for a suggestion", <1.0, 1.0, 1.0>, 1.0);
    }

    touch_start (integer total_number)
    {
        llRegionSayTo (llDetectedKey (0), PUBLIC_CHANNEL, "Get the one on the " + llList2String (["left", "right"], (integer) llFrand (2.0)) + ".");
    }
}

[Tremere Ember]

I think this is a terrible idea; this is going eliminate events such as the Epiphany and the Arcade! Gachas are a way for people to be generous and surprise their friend with a gift and that thrill of getting rare or ultra-rare. I have helped newbies, passing them gacha eyes to get them started on their look. For the people saying that it is "long overdue", have you ever thought that this could raise store prices? And will this also affect the Powder Pack? You don't know what you're getting when you buy the Powder Pack. Or is this just focusing on sales from gacha machines? This makes me think of a content creator that has passed away in RL; she would have been destroyed by this decision. Her business heavily relied on her sales at the Arcade. Not only is this bad for creators, but this is a real bummer for consumers that have enjoyed exchanging gachas with their friends.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Tremere Ember

[Faly Breen]

1 minute ago, xBebeGirlx said:

Now those items will be more rare and worth more.

yes and thats what i actually think will happen. the prices for SUCH gachas will literally explode coz they are rare now.

 

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Bloodsong Termagant said:

i guess that's still technically 'illegal,' even though a person could decide to buy an exact item, for the same price, at the vendor right next to it? 

Just because your gacha machine is next to machines selling the same content directly, doesn't make the gacha machine legal, no.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Lucia Nightfire

[Finite]

 

Just now, Tremere Ember said:

I think this is a terrible idea; this is going eliminate events such as the Epiphany and the Arcade! Gachas are a way for people to be generous and surprise their friend with a gift and that thrill of getting rare or ultra-rare. I have helped newbies, passing them gacha eyes to get them started on their look. For the people saying that it is "long overdue", have you ever thought that this could raise store prices? And will this also affect the Powder Pack You don't know what you're getting when you buy the Powder Pack. Or is this just focusing on sales from gacha machines? This makes me think of a content creator that has passed away in RL; she would have been destroyed by this decision. Her business heavily relied on her sales at the Arcade. Not only is this bad for creators, but this is a real bummer for consumers that have enjoyed exchanging gachas with their friends.

It isnt just that. I find myself spending less on a full gacha sets compared to fatpacks which are generally around 2500L and only have solids as options. The ones i myself typically just check price and continue walking on by. At least the gacha for the most part show far more effort on the side of the designer/creator.