New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Kyle Beckett]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Which is in effect a lucky chair you pay for.  Stand around and wait for your item to come up and hope someone there doesn't beat you to it.  

No waiting, you just keep playing. That's what a gacha machine essentially is, you stand around and pay a machine until you get the item you want. Instead of paying to get just an item. Now you are playing to get the item shown and change the next item.

Also no worrying about someone stealing your item if it comes up. The machine can only be used by one person at a time to prevent that.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Kyle Beckett

[Tari Landar]

I'm only on page 18, but I've read enough thus far to make this particular comment, I think. (I'll continue reading after this too, of course)

I know a lot of creators. I know a lot of people that sell things, but maybe aren't creators, they resell, especially gachas. Some of my creator friends make a decent chunk of change (in my opinion, and theirs) on gachas. I'm not a huge fan, never really have been, they're all well aware of that fact, lol. Absolutely none of them are freaking out about this as much as some of the people here are. A couple of them make way more on gacha item sales than they do their regular items. Want to know what they're all going to do now, because of this change? They're going to do what most reasonable creators (for those who create) would do and now sell those items that sell in gacha machines in either packs or as individual items. I know, nifty concept, they get to sell what they're already selling or making, the same way they always did before gacha became a thing in sl to begin with. Those who are resellers will sell up what they have, and at least one of them is working on learning how to create, the others will probably find other means to make whatever money they might now lose out on. But none of them are seeing any of this as a problem. In most cases, they all have known this would probably happen at some point. It's been a contentious issue for quite a long while now. Any creator worth their salt would at least have done a tiny bit of research into the problem surrounding gachas, lootboxes, games of chance, etc.. when it was made more widely known (which it did a long time ago). 

No creator is going to lose their livelihood over this, that's just ridiculous to even suggest, lol. Resellers may get hit, eventually, though not likely anytime soon. The folks who just sell some here and there aren't relying on gacha sales for their sl livelihood in the first place, lol. Creators aren't going to get hit as hard as some are suggesting, they just might have to change how they sell things, which isn't a bad thing at al. Gachas have created a weird stagnation in how things are sold to begin with, I'm surprised LL held on this long allowing them, really. Now creators can go back to selling things the way we always did before these things became the "in" thing here. If prims are an issue for inworld sellers, they can use vendors. They can sell individual items, they can sell packs, they can do whatever the heck they want as long as they're transparent on the what and how much of every sale (ie, what you're buying, what you're paying). It's not rocket surgery people! Sellers have never struggled with figuring out how to sell their wares the way people seem to suggest the removal of gachas would cause (well, the way the folks in this thread suggest it would cause, anyway). 

There is no reason why creators will have to, or even will, start changing the permissions they set on their items. Maybe some creators will start going back to the old way of selling multiple versions (copy/mod, or no copy/trans, for example) to appease everyone. MP won't suffer, it might in fact, over time, help clean it up a bit, although with as many gachas as are out there now, it's going to be  along while before we see that cleanup, lol. The sky's not falling, this won't be the end of sl, creators aren't going to get driven off the grid. Creators can still make and sell their wares, and we'll all be okay. 

 

[Yuki Suki]

8 minutes ago, Mistary Sandalwood said:

Would people who want to run GACHA machines be allowed to get a gambling 'license' like the sims that run the gaming sims?

Hmmm, Interesting.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 minute ago, Tari Landar said:

Resellers may get hit, eventually, though not likely anytime soon.

This ^^^.   These are the only folks that may eventually take a hit on SL income - the ones that totally depend on Gacha resell income.

The true creators will just sell the items anyway, possibly in various packaging arrangements - and probably make more in the long run since folks won't be sending their money to the resellers.

[Annie Nova]

2 hours ago, LilithServil said:

Honestly super frustrated.

About 75% of the decor in my home, and a TON of accessories I have, are gacha items. Why? Because 50L for a spin at a gacha to get an item when I typically want most pieces of the set anyway, is a steal. And if I only want one piece? Half the time it's cheaper on the MP than as an actual gacha spin.

Now those items won't exist anymore or will probably be sold in packs for MUCH more than the individual spins cost for small trinkets anyway.

And what about gacha avatars? The concept of full avatar gachas were awesome and several creators put out some really neat content. No more of that I guess.

Taking gachas away because of gambling addiction is a weak excuse; gacha games i.e Genshin Impact are super scummy BECAUSE you have no alternate route to buy the items you want directly. You're forced to buy spins over and over and over until the rigged RNG gives you the thing you want out of hundreds of potential items. SL gachas never had this problem because you can just flat out buy from gacha resellers, trade with friends, and resell what you don't want. There's no loss to playing them because if you don't want the item, chances are it's an item someone else has been wanting. You can't do any of that in gacha games that are actually problematic and prey on gambling addictions, you're just forced to keep buying or give up.

Gachas are not being removed because of gambling addiction. Please read the blog and Patch Linden's comments. Gachas are being removed for legal reasons, pure and simple. 

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Kyle Beckett said:

No waiting, you just keep playing. That's what a gacha machine essentially is, you stand around and pay a machine until you get the item you want. Instead of paying to get just an item. Now you are playing to get the item shown and change the next item.

And that other person who shows up and snags that rare when you looked away for one moment?  Yeah, that would never work.  Just put the stuff in a regular vendor and heck, charge more for the rare.  Charge something ridiculous even.   I've known people who dumped 1000s into one machine to get that rare.  So charge 10x what the commons cost.  Some.people will.pay it.

[Adeon Writer]

17 minutes ago, Mistary Sandalwood said:

Would people who want to run GACHA machines be allowed to get a gambling 'license' like the sims that run the gaming sims?

These regions exist because some US states make it illegal - for example, as an Arizona citizen, I cannot teleport to any skill gaming region in Second Life - my state's law makes internet gambling illegal, so Linden looks at my IP address and declines the teleport request. US gambling laws are very well defined and allow for programs to simply identify and exclude people by IP to prevent these services - and in doing so, it means they comply with the state law.

However, it is likely that the current Gacha ban laws likely don't care if that part of the game isn't accessible - it's likely they forbid the program have it *at all*. If this is the case, Linden lab has no option to do the same thing, as the law didn't leave it as a permittable way out.

Or, even if they do, Linden may feels that it is likely that US law would follow suit (very likely to be the case) so trying to identify and exclude German users would be only a temporary solution and a waste of resources.

And, in the face of current opinions and attitudes surrounding lootboxes, just make them look bad regardless.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Adeon Writer

[Stephy Silvercloud]

10 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

I'm only on page 18, but I've read enough thus far to make this particular comment, I think. (I'll continue reading after this too, of course)

I know a lot of creators. I know a lot of people that sell things, but maybe aren't creators, they resell, especially gachas. Some of my creator friends make a decent chunk of change (in my opinion, and theirs) on gachas. I'm not a huge fan, never really have been, they're all well aware of that fact, lol. Absolutely none of them are freaking out about this as much as some of the people here are. A couple of them make way more on gacha item sales than they do their regular items. Want to know what they're all going to do now, because of this change? They're going to do what most reasonable creators (for those who create) would do and now sell those items that sell in gacha machines in either packs or as individual items. I know, nifty concept, they get to sell what they're already selling or making, the same way they always did before gacha became a thing in sl to begin with. Those who are resellers will sell up what they have, and at least one of them is working on learning how to create, the others will probably find other means to make whatever money they might now lose out on. But none of them are seeing any of this as a problem. In most cases, they all have known this would probably happen at some point. It's been a contentious issue for quite a long while now. Any creator worth their salt would at least have done a tiny bit of research into the problem surrounding gachas, lootboxes, games of chance, etc.. when it was made more widely known (which it did a long time ago). 

No creator is going to lose their livelihood over this, that's just ridiculous to even suggest, lol. Resellers may get hit, eventually, though not likely anytime soon. The folks who just sell some here and there aren't relying on gacha sales for their sl livelihood in the first place, lol. Creators aren't going to get hit as hard as some are suggesting, they just might have to change how they sell things, which isn't a bad thing at al. Gachas have created a weird stagnation in how things are sold to begin with, I'm surprised LL held on this long allowing them, really. Now creators can go back to selling things the way we always did before these things became the "in" thing here. If prims are an issue for inworld sellers, they can use vendors. They can sell individual items, they can sell packs, they can do whatever the heck they want as long as they're transparent on the what and how much of every sale (ie, what you're buying, what you're paying). It's not rocket surgery people! Sellers have never struggled with figuring out how to sell their wares the way people seem to suggest the removal of gachas would cause (well, the way the folks in this thread suggest it would cause, anyway). 

There is no reason why creators will have to, or even will, start changing the permissions they set on their items. Maybe some creators will start going back to the old way of selling multiple versions (copy/mod, or no copy/trans, for example) to appease everyone. MP won't suffer, it might in fact, over time, help clean it up a bit, although with as many gachas as are out there now, it's going to be  along while before we see that cleanup, lol. The sky's not falling, this won't be the end of sl, creators aren't going to get driven off the grid. Creators can still make and sell their wares, and we'll all be okay. 

 

Thank You! 

People acting like it's the end of SL. The SL world turned just fine before gachas became a thing. Guess what, it's going to turn just fine when they are gone. Some creators have already solved the problem. They've already taken out their gachas and set them out individually and sent out notices announcing it. It's okay everyone, the world will not end.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Stephy Silvercloud

[Annie Nova]

2 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said:

Maybe they can ask if Gachas will be allowed on those special for gambling created sims/lands ? And hold their events there.

And that would be lovely, considering the states that DO NOT allow online gambling would NOT be able to attend the "event's" NOT a good idea!

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And that other person who shows up and snags that rare when you looked away for one moment?  Yeah, that would never work.  Just put the stuff in a regular vendor and heck, charge more for the rare.  Charge something ridiculous even.   I've known people who dumped 1000s into one machine to get that rare.  So charge 10x what the commons cost.  Some.people will.pay it.

And/or do what some creators do:  Offer an item as an Exclusive, Limited Time offer at a higher-than-usual price.  Those items almost always sell out quickly because they will be "rare".

[PatrickR Bleac]

35 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

legit question: are "Kinder surprise eggs" (you know this little candy eggs for children ) are a thing at your place? If not, oh boi.

With Kinder Surprise it's assumed they're bought for the candy and the toy is just a little random extra. The SL equivalent would be something like buy an outfit, get a random colored handbag with it.

Also since these are generally bought by parents for very young children addiction isn't really an issue.

[Faly Breen]

i actually got another legit question in mind: how does that effect black/ blind box sales (i hope people know such things) since youre basicly paying for something you see but it will still be random. does those count as gachas as well now?

Edited August 2, 2021 by Faly Breen

[Kyle Beckett]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And that other person who shows up and snags that rare when you looked away for one moment?  Yeah, that would never work.  Just put the stuff in a regular vendor and heck, charge more for the rare.  Charge something ridiculous even.   I've known people who dumped 1000s into one machine to get that rare.  So charge 10x what the commons cost.  Some.people will.pay it.

No worrying about someone stealing your item if it comes up. The machine can only be used by one person at a time to prevent that. A minor restriction, but better than nothing.

Gachas are a very lucrative business model. If they weren't they would not have thrived as much as they have and so I don't think they are going anywhere. They will just adapt to follow the new policy. Some people love the thrill of getting a rare item for a low cost.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Kyle Beckett

[Faly Breen]

1 minute ago, PatrickR Bleac said:

With Kinder Surprise it's assumed they're bought for the candy and the toy is just a little random extra. The SL equivalent would be something like buy an outfit, get a random colored handbag with it.

Also since these are generally bought by parents for very young children addiction isn't really an issue.

you do know they are collectors and cataloges for "how much is this toy worth" things, right? No im srs, they are a lot collectors over here and cataloges for such little egg toys, its like collecting stamps.

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

And/or do what some creators do:  Offer an item as an Exclusive, Limited Time offer at a higher-than-usual price.  Those items almost always sell out quickly because they will be "rare".

There are a few merchants I have never purchased anything from because it is always sold in gatchas.  Lovely items I'd like to own.  I won't even search for it as a resell.  Those merchants might now gets sales from people they hadn't before along with those who played their machines.   Yes, people love limited editions.  

I'd also like to hear some credible stats from resellers comparing money in to money out.  How much did that 15 pages of resales.cost and how much are you recouping?  When I see 20 pages of the same item from 10 different resellers, I can't imagine most people could break even especially selling below cost.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

i actually got another legit question in mind: how does that effect black/ blind box sales (i hope people know such things) since youre basicly paying for something you see but it will still be random. does those count as gachas as well now?

This sounds like the Powder boxes - I think that is what they are called.  They contained skins & makeup, I think.  One of those that is still going now puts out pictures of everything in the box so that you can decide if you want it.  If any of them do not put out pictures, they will be banned because of the 'random' stuff.

[Yuki Suki]

1 minute ago, Faly Breen said:

you do know they are collectors and cataloges for "how much is this toy worth" things, right? No im srs, they are a lot collectors over here and cataloges for such little egg toys, its like collecting stamps.

Yes, but they sell chocolate and people buy for the chocolate. They did not put rarity on the toys, it is the collectors that are doing that, not the company.

[Adeon Writer]

50 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

legit question: are "Kinder surprise eggs" (you know this little candy eggs for children) are a thing at your place? If not, oh boi.

Legit answer: They are banned in the US.

[diamond Marchant]

The problem here is NOT that residents are overreacting and freaking out to the loss of Gatchas.

The problem is the Linden Lab is freaking out over "a changing regulatory climate".

Where in the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 does it say that you  can't sell one of several advertised items (based on chance) for usually less than 1 dollar US? Gatcha IS NOT BETTING. Are there actual court cases that hold that this sort of thing is in violation of UIGEA? Please share.

And if you outlaw Gatcha, how long before LL discontinues Linden Homes, which are homes allocated BY CHANCE based on the payment of ALOT of dollars. And what will follow after that?

 

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Kyle Beckett said:

Some people love the thrill of getting a rare item for a low cost.

And there in lies a big problem.  The thrill of gambling.  

With your idea, where is the thrill?  Just sell the dang rare for more than the commons in a regular vendor.  I don't want to pay for 10 colors I don't want just to be allowed to purchase what I want.  Don't want to be mean but your idea is kind of silly.

[Faly Breen]

2 minutes ago, Adeon Writer said:

Legit answer: They are banned in the US.

wait what? for real? they are?

[LittleMe Jewell]

Just now, diamond Marchant said:

The problem is the Linden Lab is freaking out over "a changing regulatory climate".

If you are a business and your lawyers tell you to stop doing something because of what is happening in various countries, you are wise to listen to those lawyers that you pay bongo bucks to.

[Chouji Cookie]

1 hour ago, Crim Mip said:

Except when you buy a breedable, you know what you're getting. Breeding itself doesn't cost anything and is totally voluntary on the part of the owner so not the same thing at all.

you might know the species/breed/whatever, but coats, eyes, tails, etc are all random. You arent guaranteed to get what you want.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

And if you outlaw Gatcha, how long before LL discontinues Linden Homes, which are homes allocated BY CHANCE based on the payment of ALOT of dollars. And what will follow after that?

EXTREMELY over dramatic.  The Premium membership fee is for lots of benefits --- not just a Linden Home, that many don't even take.

[Ashley Darkheart]

2 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

wait what? for real? they are?

Yes, Choking Hazard