New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Josephina Bonetto said:

28 pages. That escalated fast.

Kinder eggs are amazing (in the UK we are allowed to choke on kinder toys). 

Randomly allocating a home to a resident as part of their premium membership is not the same as gacha. It is a perk. That 11.99 funds a few things, not just Linden Homes. They can argue that the 11.99 funds everything else and the Linden Home is "free". A benefit. 

First person to make a vendor that sells a plywood cube and randomly rewards you with a free item from a thematically related selection wins.

Go go go gogogogogogo !

[Rowan Amore]

Do people pump money into a breedables vendors until.they get what the want?  I've owned one breedables years ago that I got as a gift and it ended up dying from neglect so I have no clue how people use it.  Is there a percentage stated as to what the odds are of getting one over another?  

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Do people pump money into a breedables vendors until.they get what the want?

Y E S

OMG YES

SUPER YES

[s2Pandora]

1 minute ago, Josephina Bonetto said:

28 pages. That escalated fast.

Kinder eggs are amazing (in the UK we are allowed to choke on kinder toys). 

Randomly allocating a home to a resident as part of their premium membership is not the same as gacha. It is a perk. That 11.99 funds a few things, not just Linden Homes. They can argue that the 11.99 funds everything else and the Linden Home is "free". A benefit. 

Also, with Linden Homes you know what you are getting. You grab a stilt, you get a stilt. It may not be a spot you want, but it's still a stilt.

Up there with the gumball excuse. You may not get the color you want(who cares?), but you still get a gumball.

[Grim Hijinks]

As someone who definitely suffered with addiction to gachas this is good news. Now when I see something really cool maybe I can just buy the thing and not sink thousands and feel hollow when I finally get it.

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

Y E S

OMG YES

SUPER YES

Glad I never go into that!  I imagine LL will have to take a hard look at those.  Does seem suspiciously close to being a gatcha.

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

i think the more i talk and see and look into the topic - and actually think about how losely this rule is - its getting out of hand. it should really be explained what "counts" as gacha in LLs standart now since i already read some things where it could count as gacha but "isnt one"

I think LL has figured out that they need to do a bit of clarifying on some things.  The original post of this thread has been updated:

[Faly Breen]

15 minutes ago, Hanjo Harvey said:

There are actual cases of kids choking on them. It is there to minimize the damage. Its not stupid reason >.<

im sorry but everyone knows that they are toys inside. those toys are even (at least here in germany)special packed in yellow plastic within the choco egg. that the toy inside is "that small" should be common sense and knowledge at this point.

 

Srsly, its like the people which complain about that they burned their hand by touching the HOT COFFEE MUG (or better, if they try to drink said coffee and burn their lips) they just orderd at Burger King. What did they THINK they get IF they LITERALLY ORDERD "HOT COFFEE IN A MUG"? COLD ICE TEA?  People sometimes...

Edited August 3, 2021 by Faly Breen

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, s2Pandora said:

Also, with Linden Homes you know what you are getting. You grab a stilt, you get a stilt. It may not be a spot you want, but it's still a stilt.

Up there with the gumball excuse. You may not get the color you want(who cares?), but you still get a gumball.

Also, you don't have to pay again to get a different house.

[Yuki Suki]

6 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

diamond is absolutely right that Linden Homes are awarded by chance, yes indeed, after paying $11.99 which is a lot in "game" terms.

They aren't awarded "by availability" but BY CHANCE, because 10 might be available, but only 1 is handed to you. There's a a brisk after-market in "the best" LH homes despite the technical inability to sell them on the land menu. People have various strategies they use to hand them to others or make them available to others.

What do you want to bet that LL will a) stop doing the homes this way b) stop doing new homes, period.

LL doesn't have to wait until they are slapped with fines, but they can't cite a law, even in their own state of California, which has actually been *prosecuted*.

1) When you apply for a trailer home, you get a trailer home. You do not randomly get a pumpkin home.
2) Is it wrong for companies to anticipate and be prepared for what the almost (might) approve up and coming regulation to be? Legal fees are not cheap, nothing wrong for LL do it.

Last I checked, this is Second Life, not Gacha Life. Without gacha, SLife goes on as usual. 

- BTW I miss Linden trees, camping chairs and I do not mind gacha. This isnt a topic of what I like, it is about a new policy LL has enforced, and I agreed to the TOS when I signup.

[LittleMe Jewell]

10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

When I buy an ordinary white housecat, with the hope that if I breed it with an ordinary spotted tomcat, I will get a MEGA someday, that's not like a gatcha. I buy something I see. What happens next isn't in the purview of the policy or putative law. It's not a machine with random deliveries of things you can't know you will get or not get. My bet is that they will not come for breedables, as they don't have to, there isn't a law in the US, the application of the California law is uncertain, and they will not kill their golden goose sooner than they have to.

The issue with the Breedables, at least with the ones like KittyCats, when I buy a "starter" kitty, I only know that I am buying a female or male.  I don't know what the fur will be, or the eyes, ears, tail, and the other various traits.  So I don't even know if I'm getting a "white housecat" or a "spotted tomcat".

When purchasing kitty boxes that others sell, then we do know exactly what the traits are. 

[JusticeBo]

can they still put Gacha in area's where gambling is allowed? like for example Moulin Rouge games?

[Velcon Ethaniel]

6 hours ago, 69queenofthenight said:

So Basically anyone who sells breedables and uses a vendor to sell multiple Items of the same breed but the rest of the items is unknown can no longer use vendors or gatchas to sell eggs, bundles, crates,  or whatever the babies birth as.  Because we would have to list every trait on all the breedables?  We can not just put a certain breed in a vendor with various traits. 

I think that would still be okay. Just don't list the vendor as "gacha'. I am s till going to use vendors that say you will get "One Amaretto Breedable Horse Bundle"  or "One Snake Egg"

 

The buyer will know exactly what they are getting still. At least I th ink this will still be okay. Also, there's no  better chance at getting anything inside that vendor like there would be with gachas. Gachas usually have common, rare, and ultra rare items. A vendor selling a breedable doesn't have that.

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Do people pump money into a breedables vendors until.they get what the want?  I've owned one breedables years ago that I got as a gift and it ended up dying from neglect so I have no clue how people use it.  Is there a percentage stated as to what the odds are of getting one over another?  

As Coffee said - YES, definitely. 

At least for the Collection kitties that come out every few months.  Like last year at Christmas, we could get a Grouch kitty from a vendor that gave out random sizes -- and the MegaPuss size is always the most desired, like rare gacha items.  I actually got one in every available size with an extra MegaPuss - so that means I bought 8 of them.  Will sell all but one MegaPuss later, when there aren't as many available out there. 

 

Additionally, for other Collection kitties, lots of folks will keep buying as they try to get at least one of each kind.

[JusticeBo]

Will it be possible for them to place the Gacha's in Skill gaming area's?

[Adeon Writer]

@Patch Linden I know you're probably hounded with questions and can't answer them all, but I feel this is an important "What's Next" question:

Now that gachas are banned, the next thing that's going to come along are "timed purchases" where a vendor just shows a random item that won't change unless someone buys it, and afterwhich it will roll to be another random item. The percentages will be shown and rarities will exist.

So the question becomes, should you buy the thing, so that it re-rolls and becomes something else you'd actually want?

Since every purchase 100% gets you what was shown, it obeys the restriction in your blog post. Essentially it's a gatcha script, but it always shows you want you're about to get, so there's no "randomness" or mystery involved in the transaction.

Are these allowed in Second Life? An official response would be appreciated, I know quite a few people who plan to do this in light of this news, so if it's not allowed, it would be very helpful to know.

Thank you!

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, JusticeBo said:

can they still put Gacha in area's where gambling is allowed? like for example Moulin Rouge games?

Highly unlikely.  

Gambling is NOT allowed anywhere.  Those are SKILL GAMES and there is no way to make a Gacha into a Skill Game.

[Juliebaby123 Heartsong]

I just read about the Gacha change or elimination so bear with me, I want to just tell my thoughts. 

Gacha for me it is a fun way to acquire objects by chance. I go out with friends to events that are dedicated to just gachas. I save money if I am lucky and get a Rare item, but I always get an item from the gacha key. That means the 75 linden I choose to pay is what I believe each item in the machine is worth and I know I will get one of them. That is fun for me. Is this Gambling? Its up to interpretation really. I actually consider it a better choice than gambling.  To me it is entertainment or something fun to do in SL. Like going to play claw machines. Or getting a grab bag from my favorite shopping venue. That is why we come into SL, for fun. So I choose activities that match with my values and morals.  However I cant help but notice entertainment in SL has slowly changed. Today most of the listings in the entertainment category in search in SL are Strip clubs and Escort services? Linden labs doesn't close down those businesses. I don't know why because I know that in some areas of the world prostitution is illegal. We don't care about that, right? And I cant help but notice when we look  to purchase lindens and are given a "take a chance' option to buy linden at a reduced price on a variable date. Its not called gambling. But isn't it the same? Are we splitting hairs?

There is nothing much players can do as another very fun aspect of SL goes the way of the Dodo. Income for some will be obliterated. Shopping for Gacha fans will disappointed, confused, or angry  with the new policy. We think we have no choice but to go along with it. Unless...

we decide to quit Playing SL.

It seems that people forgotten that the customer can fire everyone from the CEO on down just by choosing to spend their money somewhere else or not at all.  So if all of the gacha fans choose to reduce their spending of lindens or stop using lindens at all. It will have impact. But I don't think its likely. People are addicted to SL too.

I also want to say that addiction to gambling is awful. Any addiction can be. We need a better activities in SL that are fun. I want to spend my money on fun. Remember in the old days when SL was fun? I guess that I will sit back and say goodbye to my Forest Gump days of SL. It used to be..."SL Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you gonna get". Now its "don't bother to get  the chocolates. They are all maple nut. I don't even like maple nut. And maple nut is too expensive to even bother anymore."

I am just one person. It will significantly reduce my spending in SL. Probably reduce the time in am in world.

Sorry gacha vendors. You will be missed. 

[Yuki Suki]

1 minute ago, JusticeBo said:

Will it be possible for them to place the Gacha's in Skill gaming area's?

Unless you can include 'skill base' in gacha, I dont think so.

Also if they did include skill to play, do you lose you turn if you fail? I think this part might still be up for debate tho. But this isnt the topic for that.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Hanjo Harvey

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Adeon Writer said:

@Patch Linden I know you're probably hounded with questions and can't answer them all, but I feel this is an important "What's Next" question:

Now that gachas are banned, the next thing that's going to come along are "timed purchases" where a vendor just shows a random item that won't change unless someone buys it, and afterwhich it will roll to be another random item. The percentages will be shown and rarities will exist.

So the question becomes, should you buy the thing, so that it re-rolls and becomes something else you'd actually want?

Since every purchase 100% gets you what was shown, it obeys the restriction in your blog post. Essentially it's a gatcha script, but it always shows you want you're about to get, so there's no "randomness" or mystery involved in the transaction.

Are these allowed in Second Life? An official response would be appreciated, I know quite a few people who plan to do this in light of this news, so if it's not allowed, it would be very helpful to know.

Thank you!

Sounds exactly like a Gacha

[Harte Straaf]

Ever since the discussions (back in late 2017 early 2018) about the loot boxes in the game StarWars Battlefront II and not only the big backlash from the gaming community but also the legal issues around the microtransactions for loot boxes, resulting in EA completely overhauling the game, I wondered when gachas in SL would also be affected.

With time the whole gacha thing also got somewhat out of hand.

For example just look at the older early gachas from  stores like Madpea and compare them to the later newer ones. There are a couple of older gachas with vehicles like golf carts. Those older gacha machines only have golf carts inside them (or whatever other vehicle they're selling) and alll of these vehicles are more or less nice, and even though you don't know which one you'll get, the differences aren't so big, you always more or less get what you pay for in return. 

But now these days they make gachas like for example the one with pontoon racers, where the machine predominantly shows all those vehicles along with a few buoys or helmets and things like that on the picture. But when you play the gacha machine you usually just end up "winning" one worthless item after another.

These newer gacha machines are deliberately packed full with tons of useless junk, while at the same time deceivingly pretending to be a gacha that's (just) full of vehicles, and they don't define most of those "rare to win" vehicles as "rare" items they're "common", just as "common" as the tons of different worthless junk buoys. 

When you now take a closer look at the prices some of the rare gacha iterms are generally being offered on the Marketplace for, and how much useless and worthless junk so many gacha machines pass out to people who are trying to win those rare items, then I must say I really do perfectly see how this is de-facto nothing other than pure "gambling". 

Some machines make you have to play dozens of times to win something reasonably valuable while you're collecting utterly worthless junk. And with the option of being able to sell a highly valuable rare gacha for L$ in MP and then in a next step being able to exchang these L$ into real world currencies such as the US $, there is de-facto no more difference left between those types of gacha machines and slot machines in a RL bar, where people often times can't even cash in their wins, but only get store credit for meals and drinks. 

Some (mostly early types) of gacha machines may indeed be very much like gumball machines, yes.

But with tieme it has all more and more mutated to a point, where it's become more and more like gambling, with little to no principal differences compared to RL lotteries where people play and pay for a rare chance to win a fancy house or a new car.  

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Harte Straaf

[Jules Catlyn]

I am not mourning the loss of gachas. I have seen them being people's downfall because they got addicted and to me they are jjust a cash grab. So i welcome this decision.

[JusticeBo]

1 minute ago, Hanjo Harvey said:

Unless you can include 'skill base' in gacha, I dont think so.

true  but casino games are also not Skill because it is run by a script same as gacha

[Faly Breen]

2 minutes ago, JusticeBo said:

Will it be possible for them to place the Gacha's in Skill gaming area's?

gachas are mostly luck based or droprate based. i doubt there will be a case gachas can be turned or called "skill based"...

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, Adeon Writer said:

Now that gachas are banned, the next thing that's going to come along are "timed purchases" where a vendor just shows a random item that won't change unless someone buys it, and afterwhich it will roll to be another random item. The percentages will be shown and rarities will exist.

So the question becomes, should you buy the thing, so that it re-rolls and becomes something else you'd actually want?

Since every purchase 100% gets you what was shown, it obeys the restriction in your blog post. Essentially it's a gatcha script, but it always shows you want you're about to get, so there's no "randomness" or mystery involved in the transaction.

Are these allowed in Second Life? An official response would be appreciated, I know quite a few people who plan to do this in light of this news, so if it's not allowed, it would be very helpful to know.

There is nothing random in what is actually being bought -- only in what is shown as next available for purchase.  So there is no money being spent for an "unknown or random item".  Thus I cannot see how that type of vendor would ever be banned.