New Gacha Policy Discussion

[JusticeBo]

2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Highly unlikely.  

Gambling is NOT allowed anywhere.  Those are SKILL GAMES and there is no way to make a Gacha into a Skill Game.

not really SKILL they are run by a script... they decide when you lose or win same as gacha

[Yuki Suki]

Just now, JusticeBo said:

true  but casino games are also not Skill because it is run by a script same as gacha

but you can 'try' to pick the correct 'winning' card. gacha doesnt. Gacha is just linden in, randm item out.

[JusticeBo]

1 minute ago, Faly Breen said:

gachas are mostly luck based or droprate based. i doubt there will be a case gachas can be turned or called "skill based"...

so same as script runned casino *skill* games they decide when you win or lose , so when you pay gacha you win or not win the rare 

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Sounds exactly like a Gacha

No - what Adeon describes is different.  The item in the vendor will randomly change, but the person will always know exactly what they are buying -- whichever item is currently shown in the vendor.

[Velcon Ethaniel]

3 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Sounds exactly like a Gacha

Not a gacha because the person buying knows 100% what they are getting.

Gacha is a random chance to obtain an item and those items vary between common, rare, and ultra rare. If you display the item for sale and it's a "rare" item, you still know you're buying that "rare" item.

I think what this person is suggesting would technically be okay because it displays to the person paying the money what they are getting and when you pay for that item that is exactly what you get.\

 

Same reason I suggested to the person earlier about breedable vendors that sell random bundles are probably still okay. You are selling a horse (Or any breedable). The person knows they are getting a horse (Or insert any breedable here). You are not lying to them about what they will get when they pay that vendor. You are also not guaranteeing them that the horse looks like a or b or c. All you are doing is offering them a horse for x amount of lindens and all horses inside the vendor are the exactly same price and rarity / chance. Ergo: Not a gacha.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Velcon Ethaniel

[Charlotte Bartlett]

43 minutes ago, Stephy Silvercloud said:

Thank You! 

People acting like it's the end of SL. The SL world turned just fine before gachas became a thing. Guess what, it's going to turn just fine when they are gone. Some creators have already solved the problem. They've already taken out their gachas and set them out individually and sent out notices announcing it. It's okay everyone, the world will not end.

I agree.

I haven't seen a single creator post here saying the sky would fall.  It seems a few people assigning assumptions / guesses to what "creators" will do from overprice things, to not create things.    However, many creators I know have been planning around this for some time and already had a roadmap away from the Gacha model as a revenue stream.  I am sure some haven't had that luxury but there is always support in the creator community and I know most of us just want SL to succeed and be here for years to come!

I have seen 3 creators here I know directly I did skim a bit apologies if I missed anybody -  1 asking questions (and I love her stuff!) and two H&G people, one being me on houses and the other Apple Fall (and he works SO hard on SL stuff so I loved his post as I know what effort and love he puts into his products).  

Some creators may get it wrong after this, but we all learn and the successful creators adapt, adjust and move forward.     

People will panic - change can cause that, but this is the way of life.     I am happy to chat offline with any creators in DM/in world on how we transitioned and what we found worked/did not - help support anybody. There are so many tips and tricks like how you can quickly strip gacha scripts in one go and using a vendor to switch over in less than a few minutes per machine etc.  

It's just a new phase, we'll figure it.

[VergilISparda]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

No - what Adeon describes is different.  The item in the vendor will randomly change, but the person will always know exactly what they are buying -- whichever item is currently shown in the vendor.

So basically forcing someone to buy something they do not want because the next item that appeared there RANDOMLY is what they want? Not so sure about such a concept.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, JusticeBo said:

not really SKILL they are run by a script... they decide when you lose or win same as gacha

Well, supposedly, they have managed to demonstrate to LL that some sort of Skill is involved in winning.

[Cackle Amore]

4 hours ago, Krow Ames said:

LL is not liable for what residents do in world. If they were, the whole company would be locked up for the screwed up crap people do to each other.

Technically they are liable to an extent, specially so if it's against the law in the states

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 minute ago, VergilISparda said:

So basically forcing someone to buy something they do not want because the next item that appeared there RANDOMLY is what they want? Not so sure about such a concept.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything.  The consumer always has the choice to buy or not.  They might stand there for hours waiting for someone else to buy the displayed item, just so they can then see what the next random item is. Or they may decide to buy the item in order to force it to the next item.  Totally their choice, but nothing random about the "purchase" part of it.

 

[Yuki Suki]

1 minute ago, VergilISparda said:

So basically forcing someone to buy something they do not want because the next item that appeared there RANDOMLY is what they want? Not so sure about such a concept.

I suppose the main thing is you know and get what you are pay for, and not pay and get some random item.

[Cube Republic]

I always liked the gachas where everything was a good thing with maybe different colours - I got a tuk-tuk once this way, and a dragon avatar another time.  

I can understand LL wanting to cover themselves on this one, it is basically a form of loot boxing. 

 

[CelestineDemetria]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

As Coffee said - YES, definitely. 

At least for the Collection kitties that come out every few months.  Like last year at Christmas, we could get a Grouch kitty from a vendor that gave out random sizes -- and the MegaPuss size is always the most desired, like rare gacha items.  I actually got one in every available size with an extra MegaPuss - so that means I bought 8 of them.  Will sell all but one MegaPuss later, when there aren't as many available out there. 

 

Additionally, for other Collection kitties, lots of folks will keep buying as they try to get at least one of each kind.

Totally agree. It to me is much like a "Gacha", you are pumping the money into them to get the desired sizes, coats, or traits and Genders. Being all randomized you need to keep pumping the money into them to get the intended item you desire from the "Starter" Packs or LE Packs.

Secondary market is different after you get the item to resell it, the consumer knows exactly what they are purchasing because they can see the traits and characteristics that you "played the Odds" to get.

[Velcon Ethaniel]

2 minutes ago, VergilISparda said:

So basically forcing someone to buy something they do not want because the next item that appeared there RANDOMLY is what they want? Not so sure about such a concept.

You are not required to buy anything that you do not want. If the item displayed in the vendor is not the item you want: Don't buy it. You can see exactly what it is. Nobodies forcing you to buy it.

[Adeon Writer]

Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything.  The consumer always has the choice to buy or not.  They might stand there for hours waiting for someone else to buy the displayed item, just so they can then see what the next random item is. Or they may decide to buy the item in order to force it to the next item.  Totally their choice, but nothing random about the "purchase" part of it.

 

Just like nobody forces you to buy gachas. That's not why gachas are banned, of course. Ultimately, they are banned for the predatory behavoir.

This new type of script skirts around the ban, while still being the thing the spirit of the law is trying to prevent.

That's why I'd like a response.

[VergilISparda]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything.  The consumer always has the choice to buy or not.  They might stand there for hours waiting for someone else to buy the displayed item, just so they can then see what the next random item is. Or they may decide to buy the item in order to force it to the next item.  Totally their choice, but nothing random about the "purchase" part of it.

 

I get what you mean. But there is something evil in this... Some vendors will put the unwanted items at high prices and no matter what you decide, you pay for two items when you only wanted one. It's very tricky though.

[Yuki Suki]

27 minutes ago, Josephina Bonetto said:

Kinder eggs are amazing (in the UK we are allowed to choke on kinder toys).

 

I saw what you did there. 😂

[Faly Breen]

but what "if" you turn gachas into "prices" you win if you pay for a round of a game like "spin the wheel" as sample? I mean its basicly gambling but...you win something...right?

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Adeon Writer said:

Just like nobody forces you to buy gachas. That's not why gachas are banned, of course. Ultimately, they are banned for the predatory behavoir.

This new type of script skirts around the ban, while still being the thing the spirit of the law is trying to prevent.

That's why I'd like a response.

Skill gaming skirts the gambling law also, but LL allows it.

Edited August 3, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

6 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Now .. about the huge loss of fun and the only reliable source of items with modify permissions.

And transfer. I liked being able to send my ugly alt gacha clothing. 

[Yuki Suki]

Just now, Faly Breen said:

but what "if" you turn gachas into "prices" you win if you pay for a round of a game like "spin the wheel" as sample? I mean its basicly gambling but...you win something...right?

Spin the random wheel to win a random prize?  You doing double gacha now? 😂🤣
ooh that is evil - 'gacha inception'

[Vesca Starlight]

5 hours ago, Krow Ames said:

LL is not liable for what residents do in world. If they were, the whole company would be locked up for the screwed up crap people do to each other.

They actually very much are, which is why systems are in place so people can report issues and they can handle them. It would be unreasonable to say LL is liable for things they don't know about but you could make the argument that they would be if there was no way to report things to them. There is however a way to report things to them so if stuff is going on and no residents are reporting it (as LL can't realistically monitor everything 24/7) then the liability falls on the residents not reporting it. Its kind of weird but makes sense if you think about it, and is pretty much how every social media platform handles things too.

I should also point out that not everything that you might personally disagree with is illegal, and even then you get into a bit of a gray area due to how many old laws are still on the books in various states that might not apply now and a bunch of other things. I also don't think LL wants to police how people interact because there is a lot of cultural and societal differences around its userbase, so its safe to just enforce what is illegal or not. Its complicated and I don't want to write a book, nor am I a lawyer I just pay attention to why people do things and ask enough questions.

Edited August 3, 2021 by RyokoTensaki
Additional information

[Mollymews]

4 hours ago, MarcusBlueSky Whitfield said:

a question: If the "gacha machine" has sort of a queue display showing what will come next or let's say shows the next 5 or 10 items , would that be allowed? In that case it is not about a "chance" anymore , because you KNOW what you will get and it is your decision as a buyer to buy the other things which are in front of the item you desire in the queue?

with this I think that it may be more bother for the merchant than what it is worth

i am not sure that having the rare item show up as 10 pulls from now is any different from having the rare item show up on the current pull.  When getting the item to show up is determined by some random chance mechanid 

i think that a gumball device that empties out could circumvent the rule.  I.e. the player could keep sticking in the payment until they receive the whole set of items in the device. But this just wastes the customers time. Simpler to  sell the set for one price

i think that merchants in this business wanting to continue providing their customers with a reseller market will go with limited  quantities of No--Copy+Transfer items

 

[Taboo Takeda]

6 hours ago, VicariousSally said:

What about gacha resellers through marketplace? How will this impact our MP as its NOT a chance sell like the gacha machine itself....

i guess thats one reason, very expesive rares being selled on mp

[Amae Kiyori]

What about events like Ephiphany that gives shoppers the option to turn in unwanted or extra gachas for points?  Those points then can be used for Exclusive merchandise.  I guess that it's still "gambling" because you don't know what your going to get but this event is so different from the rest of the gacha events on the grid.  I'd hate to see that event go poof because of this new regulation.  Hopefully there will be a solution to this new regulation.  I do remember when gambling was first prohibited in SL, many clubs found ways to work with the new regulation so I'm hopeful that the designers of gacha prizes will find a way to make this work as well.