iceing Braveheart Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 28 minutes ago, Orwar said: Well, to be fair, libertarianism is the antonym of authoritarianism I'd say as far as what some may not know about some extreme "alt" conservatives is that they are against big government and the illegal seizing of property by government among other things, and many of the alt-right could be called Libertarian. This is one of the reasons or perhaps the main reason some alt-right groups fight so fiercely to keep the right to bare arms and do not want that interfered with and they despise gun control. Many of us come from backgrounds where government actually did unlawfully seize our property and even for some of us, our land. I am of Polish decent and my ancestors property was illegally seized. I am sure there are others who could tell the same tale. While I tend to agree smaller government is not a bad idea, I often feel sort of in the middle politically and prefer bipartisanship almost always. I'm just not real crazy about either party to tell the truth as America is currently a trainwreck. As far as impeaching Trump right now with the threats...I think it's risky. These groups have said they all plan to be "armed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorciaa Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Field Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said: How do you know who is a 'fascist sympathizer'? What criteria does one use to decide? So... what is it you are going to deprive the fascists of to disallow them? Well, one surefire sign is advocating for violently overthrowing a democracy in order to install a dictator. As for what they lose? Well, merely their platforms, that's all I can personally do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Cinos Field said: Well, one surefire sign is advocating for violently overthrowing a democracy in order to install a dictator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Orwar said: Russia was by no one's definition, a democracy pre-1917. But if your point is that Lenin was a totalitarian . . . well, duh? What point are you making, Orwar? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 ....aaaaaaand Trump's been impeached again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 51 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: As far as impeaching Trump right now with the threats...I think it's risky. These groups have said they all plan to be "armed". No risk, no win. Also. appeasement fails. See Chamberlain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said: ....aaaaaaand Trump's been impeached again. that will only increase his base of supporters by another 20%! But maybe the party in power now can focus on more real issues than continuing with their hate and division, cause that ain't going anywhere in the Senate anyways 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Russia was by no one's definition, a democracy pre-1917. It was. The "bolschweviks" (which means "minority") took over the socialist party (there was no communist party at that time at all) and overthrew the elected socialist government. That´s why european socialist parties were scared to the bones in the aftermath and usually the pro-pluralist and pro-democratic wing kicked out the later "communists" or these quit and formed their own communist parties. Edited January 13, 2021 by Vivienne Schell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 58 minutes ago, Sorciaa said: Ah yes, another one who sucks the ice cream out of Steve Bannon´s alt right crap comedy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, Jackson Redstar said: that will only increase his base of supporters by another 20%! But maybe the party in power now can focus on more real issues than continuing with their hate and division, cause that ain't going anywhere in the Senate anyways you wish, boy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: It was. The "bolschweviks" (which means "minority") took over the socialist party (there was no communist party at that time at all) and overthrew the elected socialist government. That´s why european socialist parties were scared to the bones in the aftermath and usually the pro-pluralist and pro-democratic wing kicked out the later "communists" or these quit and formed their own communist parties. Fair point. I'd forgotten about the provisional government. Still not sure what the point of the invocation of Lenin here is though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Fair point. I'd forgotten about the provisional government. Still not sure what the point of the invocation of Lenin here is though. Nor me. But let´s conclude that Lenin kinda was right by saying "The people are stupid". Somehow. Cough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: No risk, no win. Also. appeasement fails. No one has demanded that they not impeach Trump. I think that is just coming from some of us and probably others out of a fear-factor as a group who is pro-gun at their very core stating they plan to be "armed" shouldn't be taken without thought of others. They just want to make sure Trump cannot be elected again with no thought of others. It's about them, and their wallets. Politics and political posturing always likes to play dumb but it is often quite transparent what is actually going on and what is usually going on is money. I think it's fully transparent here it's about them and their money. Edited January 13, 2021 by JanuarySwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, JanuarySwan said: No one has demanded that they not impeach Trump. I think that is just coming from some of us and probably others as a group who is pro-gun at their very core stating they can plan to be "armed" shouldn't be taken without thought of others. They just want to make sure Trump cannot be elected again with no thought of others. It's about them, and their wallets. Hell, you are such a pessimist. I still believe that there is some good core in humankind. Maybe even old Mitch has a heart of gold, tho i doubt that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said: Hell, you are such a pessimist. I still believe that there is some good core in humankind. Maybe even old Mitch has a heart of gold, tho i doubt that. Kinda hard to convict a person of "incitement" when their exact words were "Go and march and protest peacefully" But like I said now that the Dems have that little temper tantrum out of their system in the House, maybe now they can move onto the business of the country 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Fair point. I'd forgotten about the provisional government. Nuuuh, someone beat me to lecturing Scylla on the history of the Left! Huffs. But yeah. A lot of people seem to forget about the provisional government. Or like, heard of it to begin with. I know people who have been staunch communists their entire adult lives (as in, the kind who quite openly support Stalin until you point out what a meanie he was - only to five minutes later go back to praising Stalin, because changing your political views is really difficult!) - many of them proudly saying that 'we' (because, it's always 'we' with those types - I mean if you once sat on the stairs of your high school with a cardboard sign saying 'capitalism = bad' you've participated) .. overthrew the Czar! ... Except they in fact overthrew a pretty genuine shot at creating a democracy out of a country that was sort of in the middle of a little something we these days call 'The First World War', which in turn led to a regime whose death toll would make Mr. Toothbrush Mustache blush (not Chaplin). Rough! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Maybe even old Mitch has a heart of gold, tho i doubt that. Right, he just abandoned his whole country for I don't know how long. Far too long. It's obvious this is about how the people are being treated here in America too. One of the vandals who vandalized Nancy Pelosi's home wrote "give me my money" on her doorstep or something to that effect. That happened prior to the $600 hundred pittance finally given out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jackson Redstar said: Kinda hard to convict a person of "incitement" when their exact words were "Go and march and protest peacefully" But like I said now that the Dems have that little temper tantrum out of their system in the House, maybe now they can move onto the business of the country Well, i hope that the new government will do their job sufficiently. Not such a big Biden fan here, but we shall see. Regarding Trump´s speech: He said a few more things there which absolutely were inciting violence in the given scenario. Furthermore I quote his (deleted) tweet he spew out WHILE the terrorist attack was happening: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Regarding Trump´s speech: He said a few more things there which absolutely were inciting violence in the given scenario. Please, quote them, in context. I have the entirety of the speech, but I cannot find anything there/ I certainly couldn't find any part of him telling supporters to riot in the capitol or bust down doors or anything.. they only people who can see "incitement" there are those so blinded by hate they see nothing but hate... what happened was aweful, but blaming a guy who made a speech to his supporters is beyond stupid 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: I'm failing to see how "Go home with love & in peace" is an incitement to violence. We livin in loopy land or what 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Jackson Redstar said: Please, quote them, in context. I have the entirety of the speech, but I cannot find anything there/ I certainly couldn't find any part of him telling supporters to riot in the capitol or bust down doors or anything.. they only people who can see "incitement" there are those so blinded by hate they see nothing but hate... what happened was aweful, but blaming a guy who made a speech to his supporters is beyond stupid Leave that up to courts and the senate. Also, this "guy" is responible for everything what happened there, and you can try to spin that however you want: He still is. Please tell me: Are you one of these "great patriots" he refers to or not? If you are not, there should not be any complaints on the impeachment from your side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Extrude Ragu said: I'm failing to see how "Go home with love & in peace" is an incitement to violence. We livin in loopy land or what Ah well, yes, here comes Volksgenosse Bannon again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Kiyori Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) ppst. Here's a little tip from an actual (Irish born and raised) modern day "Leftist" We don't like Mao, Stalin, etc either for the same reason we don't like Trump and Hitler: Authoritarianism is bad no matter where it stems from. We don't like abuse of power regardless of where it stems from. You may now go "what aboooout" something else to deflect from the actual problem now. exits the topic. Edited January 13, 2021 by Robin Kiyori Typos glaore. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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