Vivienne Schell Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Aethelwine said: It has to be seen in its context. He issued the request to go home in peace two hours after Congress had already been invaded. The plans for insurrection were made before, on the 4 January Dick Cheney got all the alive former Secretaries of defence to sign up to a letter published in the Washington post: Dick Cheney, James Mattis, Mark Esper, Leon Panetta, Donald Rumsfeld, William Cohen, Chuck Hagel, Robert Gates, William Perry and Ashton Carter. The letter made clear the election is over and went on to say.... “Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory. Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties.” On the day it was Pence that finally called in the National Guard, not Trump. He had according to Trump staffers been more interested in watching the violence unfold than in calling protection for those in the Capital building being hunted down by insurrectionists with zip ties and explosives. The very fact that they had a skeleton staff of security when just 2 days before Dick Cheney published his letter tells a very worrying story. You won't find evidence of Trump telling people to go lynch Pence or Pelosi, but he knew what he was doing and is still responsible. The tweet i posted was unleashed WHILE the mob was storming the capitol, and it´s just another example of Trump´s typical rethorics, but that failed dramatically here. Basically, he told the thugs :"You did a great job, folks, by doing what you did, and now it´s time to go home and keep this in memory as a great day". Imagine an American president had said the same to some ISIS fighters storming the capitol in order to lynch Mike Pence. On the other hand, i find it difficult to nail Trump down on the speech he held or a couple of sentences he dropped in that particular speech, but as far as I understand the impeachment text, no one tries to do that. Edited January 14, 2021 by Vivienne Schell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustZoie Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: Biden takes over in a week and is unlikely to be that much different. The real dictators however showed their hand last week. Apple, Google, Twitter, Amazon, our new corporate overlords. That's the real coup you are missing. THANK YOU!!!!!!! Why isn't anyone getting this???? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwine Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: The tweet i posted was unleashed WHILE the mob was storming the capitol, and it´s just another example of Trump´s typical rethorics, but that failed dramatically here. Basically, he told the thugs :"You did a great job, folks, by doing what you did, and now it´s time to go home and keep this in memory as a great day". Imagine an American president had said the same to some ISIS fighters storming the capitol in order to lynch Mike Pence. On the other hand, i find it difficult to nail Trump down on one speech or a couple of sentences he dropped, but as far as I understand the impeachment text, no one tries to do that. I just checked and barriers were breached around 1pm and it wasn't until 2:47 that he tweeted "Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!". It wasn't until 3:50 that the National Guard were called in. It was 6:25 when he made the tweet about people going home. Ref 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: Biden takes over in a week and is unlikely to be that much different. The real dictators however showed their hand last week. Apple, Google, Twitter, Amazon, our new corporate overlords. That's the real coup you are missing. Don't like your "new corporate overlords," eh? I don't much like the old ones either, myself. Can I suggest a strong dose of . . . socialism? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordyn McGregor Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Imagine an American president had said the same to some ISIS fighters storming the capitol in order to lynch Mike Pence. Or all the mayors of cities being torn apart and burned down calling it a "Summer of Love" or "peaceful protests". Or the vice president "elect" supporting the rioting and burning of cities because “the people’s voices must be heard, and it is often the people who must speak to get their government to do what it is supposed to do, but may not do naturally unless the people speak loudly — and obviously peacefully.” quote link Edited January 14, 2021 by Jordan Whitt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said: Or all the mayors of cities being torn apart and burned down calling it a "Summer of Love" or "peaceful protests". Or the vice president "elect" supporting the rioting and burning of cities because it is "peaceful protests" and “the people’s voices must be heard, and it is often the people who must speak to get their government to do what it is supposed to do, but may not do naturally unless the people speak loudly — and obviously peacefully.” 2nd quote link The people spoke, and the people voted the Führer out of office. The people spoke and the Führer lost the senate. The people spoke and the Führer lost the house. So what? You still don´t get it? Game over. Edited January 14, 2021 by Vivienne Schell 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said: The people spoke, and the people voted the Führer out of office. The people spoke and the Führer lost the senate. The people spoke and the Führer lost the house. So what? You still don´t get it? Game over. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmoe Whitfield Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 22 minutes ago, JustZoie said: THANK YOU!!!!!!! Why isn't anyone getting this???? Getting what? the way the law works, it allows any company to restrict or even deny you use of their service and allows them to kick you for anything that violates their terms of service, people right now are throwing around 1A but 1A does not over ride a private companies terms of service, if it ever does, you will physically see service vanish, services we need, nobody is going to be able to do anything without risking lawsuit after lawsuit, so they will shut their doors, which will highly hurt the net as it stands right now. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordyn McGregor Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: The people spoke, and the people voted the Führer out of office. The people spoke and the Führer lost the senate. The people spoke and the Führer lost the house. So what? You still don´t get it? Game over. I am addressing the hypocriscy of cities being burned and destroyed for 10+ months and NOTHING is done about it because it is "peaceful protesting"... that is seemingly supported by the "elects". We have the same "peaceful protesting" now being done by the opposing side of the "elects" and this is the huge deal. 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustZoie Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said: Or all the mayors of cities being torn apart and burned down calling it a "Summer of Love" or "peaceful protests". Or the vice president "elect" supporting the rioting and burning of cities because “the people’s voices must be heard, and it is often the people who must speak to get their government to do what it is supposed to do, but may not do naturally unless the people speak loudly — and obviously peacefully.” quote link Tyranny is always fair as long as it's on "their side".....that's half of the problem they feel that anything that they do is right and anything the other side does is wrong and no one cares much about the details. Apparently we have learned nothing from History or the first "civil" war. And all the while the media and their corporate allies keep taking more and more control while everyone just goosesteps right in line. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, Jordan Whitt said: I am addressing the hypocriscy of cities being burned and destroyed for 10+ months and NOTHING is done about it because it is "peaceful protesting"... that is seemingly supported by the "elects". We have the same "peaceful protesting" now being done by the opposing side of the "elects" and this is the huge deal. Ah, i see. Thanks for the enlightening moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 You previously explained some of Trump's 'racist dog whistles.' Did he –or any Trump-loyal politicians—use dog whistles to incite the rioters? Are these new or are they things he has been saying all along? So, a “dog whistle” is a word or phrase that has subtle or distinctive meaning—such as invoking a prejudicial back story—to a particular audience. Over the years Trump’s racist dog whistles did their part in ensuring a white supremacist base, who turned out in force on Jan. 6. Since the November election, Trump has found new dog whistles. The phrase “Stop the Steal,” for instance, has special resonance for his followers because for years Trump has stoked the idea that racial minorities are “stealing” from “decent” (white) Americans; that immigrants are pouring in to plunder the nation; that African Americans are garnering jobs and other privileges from “reverse racism,” and so forth. He’s persuaded his base they have been “stolen from” for a long time, stoking what Sociologist Michael Kimmel calls a sense of “aggrieved entitlement.” Now, Trump had a high-stakes election to attach this grievance to, and it is no coincidence that the votes he has questioned are disproportionately those of minority voters. “Stop the Steal” has special power because it emerges from the broader narrative that unentitled minorities have been “stealing” from what is supposedly rightfully that of Trump’s base. On Dec. 19, Trump issued several tweets to promote the Jan. 6 event, including: “Big protest in D.C. on Jan. 6. Be there, will be wild!” – a descriptor implying norms would be violated or rules broken. Some of Trump’s supporters evidently took him as enlisting their help, rather like a paramilitary force. On Jan. 1, for instance, a supporter tweeted that “The calvary [sic] is coming, Mr. President!” Trump affirmed this as “A great honor!” Other Republicans were more direct in encouraging violence. After another court rejected Trump’s election appeal on Jan. 2, Rep. Louie Gohmert appeared on Newsmax and said, “you have to go to the streets and be …violent.” https://www.brandeis.edu/now/2021/january/trump-language-capitol-riot-mcintosh.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwine Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Jordan Whitt said: Or all the mayors of cities being torn apart and burned down calling it a "Summer of Love" or "peaceful protests". Or the vice president "elect" supporting the rioting and burning of cities because “the people’s voices must be heard, and it is often the people who must speak to get their government to do what it is supposed to do, but may not do naturally unless the people speak loudly — and obviously peacefully.” 2nd quote link Your quote says the exact opposite of what you claim it says. BLM protests were mostly peaceful. Their protest outside the Capital was peaceful, the tear gas was deployed so Trump could get a photo opportunity holding a bible. That is a stark contrast to what happened on 6 January. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordyn McGregor Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Aethelwine said: BLM protests were mostly peaceful. Tell that to the people of Seattle, Portland, Chicago etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Meanwhile, after 23 pages of a well or not game, we managed to forget an important thing. Linden Labs is a private owned company with an international reach. Now, as an European citizen, I can tell you that the EU is taking slightly an harsh stance against foreign companies which have a marketshare in the EU. One of our laws, our rules, our regulations or be gone. Don't start a moan about it, this mentality is already in place since the start of the EU. In the European law, hate speech, racism, discrimination, xenophobia an so on are punishable criminal acts. Reports of such acts towards any social media, which Linden Labs is, must be removed within 48 hours. And make no mistake, the EU is verifying the actions taken by the social media company, each 6 months, reports it and based on these reports, penalties (fines) are been given. So, when you think you have your Freedom Of Speech, that Freedom Of Speech is being filled in differently in other countries and might lead to financial troubles for the company of which you are using it as a platform for your ideas. Just keep that in mind. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Aethelwine said: Your quote says the exact opposite of what you claim it says. BLM protests were mostly peaceful. Their protest outside the Capital was peaceful, the tear gas was deployed so Trump could get a photo opportunity holding a bible. That is a stark contrast to what happened on 6 January. Save your energy. You cannot debate with someone who lives in an alternative universe. We do not have the warp drive yet, unfortunately, so we cannot get sucked into that black hole to debate these guys on the other side of that mind boggling, huge universe. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said: Tell that to the people of Seattle, Portland, Chicago etc. You did. The result is known. The people of Portland, Chicago and Seattle voted the Führer down. BY NUMBERS. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 8 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said: 9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: How some people cannot understand the undercurrents, festering for years, which would incite this present debacle at the Capitol is beyond me, preferring instead to be overly-literal and focus on Trump's public speeches as proof he did not incite anything at all. But he began a race war over 10 years ago when he stirred up racial divisions in the US by doubting Obama was born in the US -- he knew what he asserted was not true, and his motive clearly was to capitalize on the racial hatred barely buried beneath the surface and create divisions so he could amass the haters on his side. Expand Actually I sympathize with this more than you know. I do not think that Trump should have said that. When Trump entered office I did not celebrate at the time, I didn't like him. I was convinced he was a bad person and it was a sad event for me. Trump grew on me over time for a number of reasons. First there was so much hate directed towards him, without anything good written that I started to think that I am not getting the full story, the demonic creature they make him out to be is unrealistic for a human being to the point of ridicule. Around the same time, my country was on a witch hunt, calling anyone who voted Brexit a racist, bigot etc. I had actually voted to remain in the EU. I was a labour supporter, a lefty. My countries flag was being portrayed as a hate symbol. Something clicked in my head, and I realized that people were projecting so much hatred onto my country and characterizing it in such a hateful way that my country could never hope to be a good place as people had just decided its fate was bad and gave it no chance. Around that time I decided to let go of the EU and believe in my own country instead, not because I felt good about leaving the EU, but because I wanted to believe in my country and the people in it and give it a chance to succeed in the direction it was going. I felt more and more betrayed by the people I used to support who were so eager to throw my country under the bus as the worst place on earth and disenfranchised by them. Trump was advocating for his country and his people and describing them as good people, whilst the left could only say bad things about their own people. That is why I started to like him. Over the years I've watched him do things that I think are good things, ending conflicts, bringing troops home, putting his own people first, protecting the borders so that people can continue to have job security and support their families. When the WHO was telling Trump to accept flights in from China, Trump still stopped the flights and put his people first. His opponents describe him and his supporters as white supremacists but I've watched those rally's and people of all backgrounds support Trump, I just don't think it's true. Paint me as a Nazi if you really like, but I don't think Trump is 1/10th as evil as people make him out to be. He has his flaws, I don't like when he puts people down to raise himself up, I think he can be distasteful at times. But ultimately I think he has done more good than harm even if nobody will acknowledge it. That was a thoughtful post, and I enjoyed hearing your story, but I don't think you understand the nature of fascism/autocracy vs democracy and the dangers we faced (face) in the US. This scholar speaks to the issues a lot...check out her Youtube talks too: https://www.npr.org/2020/07/22/892171996/combining-indictment-with-insight-a-historian-offers-context-for-the-age-of-trum 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustZoie Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said: Tell that to the people of Seattle, Portland, Chicago etc. But facts don't matter to them; you can't argue with these people they want to argue just to argue and if you found the cure for cancer and handed them a million dollars they would still hate and argue about it smh. Like that does anyone any good, but we can talk until we are blue in the face and they won't ever listen. Edited January 14, 2021 by JustZoie 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordyn McGregor Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Save your energy. You cannot debate with someone who lives in an alternative universe. We do not have the warp drive yet, unfortunately, so we cannot get sucked into that black hole to debate these guys on the other side of that mind boggling, huge universe. And yet you are still responding to my posts...showing it is a case of do as I say, not as I do? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Trumps attorney, egging the Trumpie cult on to violence: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said: And yet you are still responding to my posts...showing it is a case of do as I say, not as I do? Damn, she looks like me. I should file a DMCA. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Mommy Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said: Tell that to the people of Seattle, Portland, Chicago etc. Hi there. Friendly Portland native here. My hometown didn't 'burn to the ground' and the violence my family (who all live in the downtown) suffered was not at the hands of BLM. There is a reason people came out in droves to vote this past election. Actually the worst of the summer were the wildfires. 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bitterthorn said: Hi there. Friendly Portland native here. My hometown didn't 'burn to the ground' and the violence my family (who all live in the downtown) suffered was not at the hands of BLM. There is a reason people came out in droves to vote this past election. Actually the worst of the summer were the wildfires. Don´t give them ideas. Most likely that will end in "Biden burned down the forests". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Aethelwine said: You won't find evidence of Trump telling people to go lynch Pence or Pelosi, but he knew what he was doing and is still responsible. A congresswoman was just on the news revealing strange groups of people being shown areas within the Capitol days before the riot, as if they were the tours that ceased since Covid. So the implication is that more inside people were involved than once thought. Something else interesting...these insurrectionists were not the poor people lacking jobs I often thought them to be, evoking some sympathy on my part in the past. According to this article @ theAtlantic: The Capitol Rioters Weren’t ‘Low Class’ The business owners, real-estate brokers, and service members who rioted acted not out of economic desperation, but out of their belief in their inviolable right to rule. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/thoroughly-respectable-rioters/617644/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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