What does a post covid-19 world look like to you?

[Luna Bliss]

23 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

35 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

A lot of elderly people die of pneumonia, aside from the ones caused by Covid...so perhaps we should look there (why do the elderly have trouble recovering from pneumonia in general).

Very true.  Both my parents died of pneumonia.  In both cases, it was a matter of "food going down the wrong pipe."  The reason for THAT varies a lot, but it is apparently quite common in elderly people.

That is very strange...that they both went via inhaling food. So many depart with pneumonia, and can see why some advocate the vaccine for it.

[Lindal Kidd]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

That is very strange...that they both went via inhaling food. So many depart with pneumonia, and can see why some advocate the vaccine for it.

The exact circumstances were different, but the end result was the same.  Food in the lungs = infection = pneumonia.

[Qie Niangao]

It's certainly true that getting pneumonia is a step in the progression of COVID-19. (Well... typically. We've learned that in addition to the lungs, it can independently attack the heart and kidneys, sometimes fatally, with no loss of lung function. Those are surely less common, but we actually have very little idea how many people are dying of COVID-19-caused symptoms that are not lung-related. Not much post-mortem virus testing anyway, and practically none for deaths not lung-related.)

I'd note that this is a "viral pneumonia" and a weird form at that, not the bacteriological kind that's a much more common cause of death when COVID-19 isn't a factor. (That means pneumococcus vaccines such as Prevnar 13 are pretty irrelevant, other than keeping old folks out of the hospital where they might contract COVID-19.)

The high blood pressure thing is interesting. I read speculation somewhere that the correlation with bad outcomes with the virus wasn't due to high blood pressure itself, but rather an interaction with a commonly prescribed drug for high blood pressure. But I don't remember the drug, similar suggestions were made about diabetes drugs, and I haven't seen anything about this lately, so maybe it all turned out to be a dead end.

I guess I'm falling into the trap of anecdotal evidence, weighing stories of "perfectly healthy" older patients who die of COVID-19 apparently without comorbidities. Could all have undiagnosed conditions.

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The high blood pressure thing is interesting. I read speculation somewhere that the correlation with bad outcomes with the virus wasn't due to high blood pressure itself, but rather an interaction with a commonly prescribed drug for high blood pressure. But I don't remember the drug, similar suggestions were made about diabetes drugs, and I haven't seen anything about this lately, so maybe it all turned out to be a dead end.

That is definitely interesting.  

*off to my next dive into google searches*

[FairreLilette]

3 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I think this is a very cogent point.  Tolya said it in another way when he drew a distinction between "jobs" and "functions".  The idea of a basic income could address this.  However, we need to avoid Fairre's dystopian vision of hordes of idled people stuck in project housing.

With basic income, we aren't going to have any land as Theresa suggested.  

The government wants cheap food so they seized a lot of farms in the 1980's and began to put out more genetically modified food (cheap, cheaper, cheapest) "food".   The only exception is perhaps a Trader Joe's or Whole Foods.  While Trader Joe's was affordable for my small family, Whole Foods prices were out of the question.  With Whole Foods our food bill would have tripled.  

The government isn't going to give people a beautiful home with land and a basic income payout for doing no job.  

This song and video tells a little bit of the story when the government took over 97 farms in Indiana.  One of the farmer's states the reason as "the government wants cheap food...".

So, while it may be "dystopian", it cannot be 100% ruled out either though it doesn't mean it is100% ruled in.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Selene Gregoire]

17 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

No Handshakes. Its been thrown around as a possibility but considering it has been around since BC times I don't see that changing. What else could you do?

No Cash. Cant see this happening in America given that a lot of places still don't have tap and go, pay wave etc. Other countries such as in EU and Australia it may just become that as we have already seen a huge drop in people using cash before all this mess. Reserve Bank of Australia has already hinted that this new paper currency change we have atm will be the last.

I think this is going to change a lot of things. More money spent on healthcare, better healthcare systems, future proofing the economies. Hopefully best of all will be manufacturing brought back to the respective countries instead of relying on one country to produce everything.

Not everyone has a smart phone. I don't. And even if I did, I would not use it to make purchases or pay bills. If my cash or debit card isn't good enough for them, they don't get my business.

[Selene Gregoire]

17 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Well, aren't YOU just the little ray of sunshine?  I did a little Googling and that is indeed one horrid disease.  I wasn't able to find a reference about its having jumped to birds, though.  The articles I read limited it to cervids.  That's bad enough...the draconian measures to prevent the spread of mad cow disease (a related ailment) show that plainly enough.  I would also add the qualifier, "it cannot be cured YET".  This disease is caused by mis-folded proteins, and we are learning more about protein folding every day.

In fact, you can contribute your spare computer time to the research, by signing up for an account at Folding@Home  This is a distributed computing project, a lot like SETI@Home.  Your donated computer time can also help find cures for COVID-19, Alzheimers, and others.

Thought you might want to see this:

https://mailtribune.com/oregon-outdoors/hunting/man-cited-for-bringing-infected-deer-into-oregon

[Lindal Kidd]

22 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Thought you might want to see this:

https://mailtribune.com/oregon-outdoors/hunting/man-cited-for-bringing-infected-deer-into-oregon

Sunshine all OVER, I tell you!  Good grief.

Hope your water heater repair is going well, anyway.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Sunshine all OVER, I tell you!  Good grief.

Hope your water heater repair is going well, anyway.

New one probably won't be delivered until tomorrow and I need a shower after planting bulbs again today. 

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Not everyone has a smart phone. I don't. And even if I did, I would not use it to make purchases or pay bills. If my cash or debit card isn't good enough for them, they don't get my business.

By tap and go or pay wave I meant debit/credit card not phone. It's what we call contactless payment by card in Australia. No idea what it is in America, but no not (just) using phone for payment. I am the same as you except whilst I have a smart phone, I still don't use the phone to pay as its just too annoying, can be lost, hacked, etc.

[Selene Gregoire]

4 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

By tap and go or pay wave I meant debit/credit card not phone. It's what we call contactless payment by card in Australia. No idea what it is in America, but no not (just) using phone for payment. I am the same as you except whilst I have a smart phone, I still don't use the phone to pay as its just too annoying, can be lost, hacked, etc.

Oh ok. I misunderstood what you meant because it is called something different here in the US and I thought that is what you were saying. Sorry about that.

[Selene Gregoire]

My idea of post Covid-19.

 

[Storm Clarence]

18 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

My idea of post Covid-19.

 

 

 

6 feet apart.  Perfect.

[Paul Hexem]

6 hours ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

"Essential functions"

 

6 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

"Essential workers"

One thing I noticed that got overlooked... It's easy to point at something like a grocery store cashier and make the "essential jobs" vs "essential workers" argument. It's an easy thing to automate. But what about those functions that aren't yet easy to automate, or simply aren't possible to automate?

For example, I work in the security industry. It's exploding right now. I've got a pretty good gig already, but every day more front line positions are opening. All those previously mentioned grocery stores are hiring security to make sure people actually use the self checkouts. Automated warehouses are adding security to make sure stuff doesn't get stolen out of them (by the public or the few employees that are there). And so on. These front line security people that are 100% essential workers are getting offered cheap masks and near minimum wage. It's pretty messed up.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Gadget Portal

[LexxiXhan]

You know what? It doesn't *****ing matter.

some of us already know inside out what a 'tolerable' world might look like.

people are either going to wake up to their humanity or we'll just have to keep on keeping on.

[FairreLilette]

3 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Sunshine all OVER, I tell you!  Good grief.

Hope your water heater repair is going well, anyway.

The bird flu is now in South Carolina.  The news broke as of one hour ago.  I do not know if it is real or a hoax at this time.  Not too "sunny" looking here.  

The high pathogenic case was found at an operation in Chesterfield County, South Carolina, marking the first case of the more dangerous strain since one found in a Tennessee chicken flock in 2017. In 2015, an estimated 50 million poultry had to be killed at operations mainly in the Upper Midwest after infections spread throughout the region.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/industry-scrambles-to-stop-fatal-bird-flu-in-south-carolina/ar-BB12s66L?li=BBnbfcL

[Selene Gregoire]

Maybe being misanthropic isn't such a bad thing after all.

[Drayke Newall]

My hope which I know would never come to pass post Covid-19 is that all the governments will see how bad pollution has been by seeing what the world looks like when there is none. Lots of things have become so clear without the pollution due to lockdowns such as India for the first time in 30 years being able to see the Himalayas.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/people-in-india-say-theyre-seeing-the-himalayas-for-first-time-in-decades-amid-drop-in-air-pollution/ar-BB12sfkY?ocid=spartanntp 

Not to mention all the animals coming out to play that are rarely seen so close

Edited April 11, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Storm Clarence]

If it ain't such a bad thing then why b1tch about it every day and on every thread.  I know you hate everyone - I read it all the time and in every thread.  And all of the time it is just so boring.

 

[Lindal Kidd]

2 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

One thing I noticed that got overlooked... It's easy to point at something like a grocery store cashier and make the "essential jobs" vs "essential workers" argument. It's an easy thing to automate. But what about those functions that aren't yet easy to automate, or simply aren't possible to automate?

For example, I work in the security industry. It's exploding right now. I've got a pretty good gig already, but every day more front line positions are opening. All those previously mentioned grocery stores are hiring security to make sure people actually use the self checkouts. Automated warehouses are adding security to make sure stuff doesn't get stolen out of them (by the public or the few employees that are there). And so on. These front line security people that are 100% essential workers are getting offered cheap masks and near minimum wage. It's pretty messed up.

Those store owners aren't thinking very clearly.  Pay security workers minimum wage, and THEY'LL be the ones stealing from stock.  Pay 'em in shares of the company and dividends instead.

There was a CEO who got in the news a year or two back because he cut his own multi-million dollar compensation and used it to pay his employees more.  Now, here comes the coronavirus.  His company had three months before they went under.  He asked his employees, "what should we do?"  They took VOLUNTARY pay cuts!  Each took what he could afford.  A few didn't take a cut, they needed all their pay to stay afloat.  Ten of 'em said "don't pay us anything until this is over".  The rest fell somewhere in between.

Now, THAT is a humane way to run a corporation, dammit.

[FairreLilette]

50 minutes ago, Storm Clarence said:

If it ain't such a bad thing then why b1tch about it every day and on every thread.  I know you hate everyone - I read it all the time and in every thread.  And all of the time it is just so boring.

 

Whom are you talking to?  The wind?  

[Ceka Cianci]

This will be me driving in my jeep the first day they let us back out, as i go through town taking pictures of the people coming out of their houses on that first day,..

 

These people are heading to walmart with their packs filled with toilet paper that they are in hopes of returning

 

A couple of mothers and their now Unspoiled children.

 

Where's Waldo?

Edited April 11, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Sassy Kenin]

6 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Maybe being misanthropic isn't such a bad thing after all.

Society has alot of unreal expectations on people to the point suicide is very common now, being away from people by being out in nature, away from most modern things can really make us aware how beautiful life is. my thinking is that by being in nature away from people one can connect to the earth & god on a personal level that modern society blinds us from.

When i was little i would go into the dark forest alone to explore, watch butterflies in the open fields, often deer would come up to me allowing me to pet them, sometimes with me ending up falling asleep exhausted at the base of an old tree called the owl tree, several had lived in it for generations, often they would fly down and get walk near people as if they were trying to say something but we forgot how to hear them, when i woke up it was often an experience of feelings that by being there i was not dreaming in the forest but the forest was dreaming inside me.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Shansi Kenin
Grammer

[Amanda Crisp]

OK, this might be a long one as I and my co-workers were discussing this very thing earlier.

I see CV19 as an event that will have similar impact to the Great Depression or the Second World War.

I’m a little older in my years than some, so I had people who lived through the Depression involved in my (Early) daily life and the Grandparents who raised me lived through WW2 (my Grandfather was a Pacific veteran).  My experience was that both events made indelible impressions on those who lived through them. Widespread food-scarcity, poverty and the lingering-but-intangible possibility of death *changed* people in ways that those who didn’t have those experiences found odd.

I grew up with some SERIOUS lectures (and a few paddlings) related to not wasting food or money. I was indoctrinated from the cradle in two almost contradictory ideas; (1) its expected that we will help each other out because we have had to do-without ourselves and (2) If you have something valuable (Food stocks, kerosene, spare tires) - don’t advertise it because if things get short, other people or the government may try to take it.

So I see these things changing;

Mass Gatherings will Radically Decrease

I fear that the movie theatre will become a thing of the past unless its structure and format change radically. They are too hard to clean (just remember what the sticky-floors looked like) and frankly, sitting in the dark people might feel free of peer pressure and engage in at-risk behavior.

Concert and sporting venues will have to re-imagine how the seat people, as “six-foot-clearance” ingrains itself into the public psyche. That means fewer people in the venue unless they do something creative with “booth” seating to at least isolate people into smaller separate groups (and figure some way to get them in and out without mass exposure).

I’m really seeing a large scale “fear of crowds” evolving that will change how we gather, consume entertainment, vote and do many things.

Population Movement Will Get Slower

I think globally, we’ll see a push towards more medical checks to cross borders out of a fear of disease. The jet aircraft is a transportation miracle, but it can also transport infected/undetected people into healthy populations rapidly. Maybe this will include “preflight isolation periods” and medical testing.

Unfortunately, I also see “reversals” many places where borders are currently open. CV19 travels on foot just as easily as aboard a jet and densely populated countries (especially those with aging populations) would want to prevent another mass sickness.

Also globally, I would almost expect to see an effort to reduce the human birth-rate so as to “distance” the global population and place less strain on available resources globing-forward if/when we have another outbreak.

Social Safety Nets Will Be Forced To Improve

The economic impact of CV19 and the idling of many businesses, coupled with the costs of medical care, will push towards structural changes in how we provide for our populations. We may see the advent of “Living Stipends” and a drive towards Universal Healthcare in places that might not have considered them a decade ago.

This would probably be coupled with education initiatives to prepare more workers for the technological workplace, as manual-labor type jobs that concentrate workers will be increasingly automated and throw low-educated workforces onto social safety nets. 

We will also struggle with how to pay for it all.

The Rise of the Machines

Even more so than today, Automation will drive a reduction in concentrations of manufacturing workers. This in turn will drive both education and population mitigation initiatives as we will have a burning need to make sure that the next generation is better able to “work from home/work from safety” and that mass, manual labor groupings become scarcer.

The Map May Change

We may see new political alliances form and old ones fall apart. Fearful of a neighbor’s perceived “lack of preparedness” we may also see national power-grabs take place under the ruse of “making the world safer”. This may take the form of a New Colonialism or something darker unless we can step back from the old grudges and power-politics of the past.

We Will Finally Get VR

Driven by the need to entertain, meet and work at a distance - Virtual Reality will become a Thing. Amanda Keen will look very much younger and hotter in VR.

We Will Remember Who Got Us Through This (Briefly)

Nurses, Doctors, Farmers, Essential Factory Workers and all Other Essentials will have about 5 years of recognition coming to them (unfortunately human gratitude last about 5 years). My hope is that everyone who has done the risky (and often menial) tasks that keep civilization afloat will be treated well by everyone else as we move forward. I also hope that we never again allow ourselves to Look Down on people engaged in Service occupations (waitresses, nursing-home staff, Caretakers, janitors, cooks, truckers, pharmacists, storekeepers, factory workers, medical professionals, law enforcement, military, etc) because they will be the ones called upon to serve and make sacrifices during the next Outbreak.

This Will Happen Again

I just hope that when it does, we’ve prepared ourselves. This is the wake-up call, not the final curtain.

Edited April 11, 2020 by AmandaKeen