What does a post covid-19 world look like to you?

[Tolya Ugajin]

6 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

 If anything, those non essential, greedy types will just find new and interesting ways to make sure they stay rich while everyone else suffers through the next one just like they're doing with this one. 

I wouldn't doubt that this  extended shutting down of much of the economy, coupled with a likely coming boom of many of those "essential workers" opting to go on unemployment rather than going to work, will result in a whole wave of new automation, resulting in machines doing that work instead of people.  Maybe a total of 1 person to handle the entire checkout section of grocery stores.  More fully-automated warehousing, especially in food industries.  Businesses have very few "essential workers" - mostly they have "essential functions", and going through an extended period where your business is in jeopardy definitely tilts the playing field more towards automation instead of labor, even more than the drive to artificially increase wages for unskilled jobs has.

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

a likely coming boom of many of those "essential workers" opting to go on unemployment rather than going to work

Most low-skilled/low-wage workers are out there working and dying for those who feel entitled, like you, in disproportionate numbers, not going on unemployment:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/10/new-york-coronavirus-inequality-divide-two-cities

[Tolya Ugajin]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Most low-skilled/low-wage workers are out there working and dying for those who feel entitled, like you, in disproportionate numbers, not going on unemployment:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/10/new-york-coronavirus-inequality-divide-two-cities

Nice ad hominem.  The Guardian reporter, and you, may wish to stop and consider that the new regs were just passed, and most people do not yet realize that, say, if they have kids they can simply claim they have to stay home and not work because the kids aren't in school, and collect the equivalent of $15/hr.

And, please, knock it off with the histrionic "working and dying" crap.  The vast majority of fatalities are in retired people and those who are likely not working due to preexisting health conditions.  Working age and otherwise healthy adults have under a 1% chance of dying from Covid, if they catch it. 

 

[Storm Clarence]

22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Most low-skilled/low-wage workers are out there working and dying for those who feel entitled, like you, in disproportionate numbers, not going on unemployment:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/10/new-york-coronavirus-inequality-divide-two-cities

No, they are not, and you have no proof.  Fake news and misinformation. 

ETA  Tolya said it best above.  Histrionics.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Storm Clarence

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

30 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Most low-skilled/low-wage workers are out there working and dying for those who feel entitled, like you, in disproportionate numbers, not going on unemployment:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/10/new-york-coronavirus-inequality-divide-two-cities

Nice ad hominem.  The Guardian reporter, and you, may wish to stop and consider that the new regs were just passed, and most people do not yet realize that, say, if they have kids they can simply claim they have to stay home and not work because the kids aren't in school, and collect the equivalent of $15/hr.

And, please, knock it off with the histrionic "working and dying" crap.  The vast majority of fatalities are in retired people and those who are likely not working due to preexisting health conditions.  Working age and otherwise healthy adults have under a 1% chance of dying from Covid, if they catch it. 

From your past posts related to your frustration with the workers you employ in your business, berating them frequently, I get the impression your views are colored by these experiences. It's not good to extrapolate your personal experiences to the world at large.

And many young people ARE dying. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

15 minutes ago, Storm Clarence said:

31 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Most low-skilled/low-wage workers are out there working and dying for those who feel entitled, like you, in disproportionate numbers, not going on unemployment:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/10/new-york-coronavirus-inequality-divide-two-cities

No, they are not, and you have no proof.  Fake news and misinformation. 

The Instacart delivery person who delivered my groceries is "fake news and information"?  The grocery checkout person at Walmart or the food delivery people are not real? The postal carrier who puts mail in my slot doesn't exist?   I could go on and on...carers for those in nursing homes, for example.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Storm Clarence]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

 

And many young people ARE dying. 

Yes!  In Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Oakland et al but it ain't because they are working low paying wage jobs and exposure to covid-19.  They are killing themselves, and their local governments are failing them - as they have for the past 50 years. 

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Storm Clarence said:

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

And many young people ARE dying. 

Yes!  In Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Oakland et al but it ain't because they are working low paying wage jobs and exposure to covid-19.  They are killing themselves, and their local governments are failing them - as they have for the past 50 years. 

I'm not sure what/which points you are debating..

[Tolya Ugajin]

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

From your past posts related to your frustration with the workers you employ in your business, berating them frequently, I get the impression your views are colored by these experiences. It's not good to extrapolate your personal experiences to the world at large.

And many young people ARE dying. 

I've actually said positive things about my employees, I don't recall saying anything negative about mine.  As far as "many young people ARE dying", as of this morning, according to the CDC, not a single person under 20 has died of Covid in the US.  You should stop listening to media fanning fear and rely on actual data.

[Storm Clarence]

37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Most low-skilled/low-wage workers are out there working and dying for those who feel entitled, like you, in disproportionate numbers, not going on unemployment:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/10/new-york-coronavirus-inequality-divide-two-cities

These ^ points I am debating!  It is you who is conflating the issues.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

You should stop listening to media fanning fear and rely on actual data.

So my local news, airing stories of young who have died, with their online funerals and facebook postings, family members interviewed, is all fake. I guess I better wait till I see it in a governmental document to believe it. I see.

[Luna Bliss]

How many low-wage workers are dying though really isn't the issue.  Experiencing Covid-19 is no piece of cake -- it's miserable. They are providing a service for the rest of us who can easily work at home, or have money saved for a rainy day. We should honor them and not disparage them, accusing them of taking things they should not via whatever unemployment money might be coming for some.

[Tolya Ugajin]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

So my local news, airing stories of young who have died, with their online funerals and facebook postings, family members interviewed, is all fake. I guess I better wait till I see it in a governmental document to believe it. I see.

If that is true, then maybe you should be asking why your local health officials aren't reporting these deaths to the CDC.  Of course, I'm not sure if you're American, so perhaps in whatever country you call home it's different.  Personally, I believe very little that comes off farcebook or broadcast news unless I verify it with more trustworthy sources.  And, yes, I'm more apt to believe what the CDC publishes than anecdotal stories about what someone says they saw on the news, especially since, are you sure those "young who have died" are under 20?  After all, from 20-55 the death rate of Covid is comparable to that of the annual flu, at 0.1%, so there are certainly a small number of people in their 20's for the media to exploit to excite hysteria.

[LittleMe Jewell]

10 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

 As far as "many young people ARE dying", as of this morning, according to the CDC, not a single person under 20 has died of Covid in the US.  

While it is not true, as Luna stated, that "many young people are dying" from COVID-19, there was at least one death in the 1-4 age group and 4 in the 15-24 age group (though I can't yet find any breakdown of that 15-24 age group).  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

¹Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, coded to ICD–10 code U07.1.

 

[Tolya Ugajin]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How many low-wage workers are dying though really isn't the issue.  Experiencing Covid-19 is no piece of cake -- it's miserable. They are providing a service for the rest of us who can easily work at home, or have money saved for a rainy day. We should honor them and not disparage them, accusing them of taking things they should not via whatever unemployment money might be coming for some.

You really enjoy accusing me of things I didn't do or say.  I'm not disparaging someone when I say they can take advantage of an ill-conceived knee-jerk piece of legislation and stay home rather than work.  It's the logical thing for them to do.  I am disparaging the idiots who wrote the bill and the fools who passed it anyway after they were warned.  I am also saying that business will undoubtedly factor in new risks and costs when deciding whether to automate those jobs away, because it's the logical thing for them to do.

[LittleMe Jewell]

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

So my local news, airing stories of young who have died, with their online funerals and facebook postings, family members interviewed, is all fake. I guess I better wait till I see it in a governmental document to believe it. I see.

If your local news is airing stories about many young people dying from COVID-19, then you might want to point them to the CDC website. See my post above.

Edited April 10, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell

[Storm Clarence]

5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

While it is not true, as Luna stated, that "many young people are dying" from COVID-19, there was at least one death in the 1-4 age group and 4 in the 15-24 age group (though I can't yet find any breakdown of that 15-24 age group).  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

¹Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, coded to ICD–10 code U07.1.

 

The 1 for 1-4 gets a star next to it.  The Governor of Connecticut appears to have told some lies . . .

[Tolya Ugajin]

25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The Instacart delivery person who delivered my groceries is "fake news and information"?  The grocery checkout person at Walmart or the food delivery people are not real? The postal carrier who puts mail in my slot doesn't exist?   I could go on and on...carers for those in nursing homes, for example.

Really, all those people have died?  I don't think anyone is disputing that a lot of front line workers are still working, albeit several million fewer are today than were a few weeks ago, but you seem to be implying that the proleteriat is dying en masse just so we greedy, evil capitalists can go on eating caviar and raping peasant girls.  Or is it raping caviar and eating peasant girls, I get my Bolshevik propaganda confused sometimes.

[Storm Clarence]

17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How many low-wage workers are dying though really isn't the issue.  Experiencing Covid-19 is no piece of cake -- it's miserable. They are providing a service for the rest of us who can easily work at home, or have money saved for a rainy day. We should honor them and not disparage them, accusing them of taking things they should not via whatever unemployment money might be coming for some.

This is such a better way to write your arguments. 

I agree.  

[Tolya Ugajin]

8 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

While it is not true, as Luna stated, that "many young people are dying" from COVID-19, there was at least one death in the 1-4 age group and 4 in the 15-24 age group (though I can't yet find any breakdown of that 15-24 age group).  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

¹Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, coded to ICD–10 code U07.1.

 

The data I looked at was likelihood of dying, and it said 0%.  Perhaps they round "almost 0%" down to "0%".  I sit corrected, although as you point out, it;s still a tiny fraction.

[Beth Macbain]

Does it really matter if a person is young or old? A death is a death. We lost a 3 year old client on Tuesday. No, not from COVID, but her family can't have a funeral for her. Is that any less devastating than a death related to COVID? 

Part of my job is looking up obituaries for people who have named us as the charity to receive memorial gifts. Just in the last week, I've had this 3 year old little girl, a 45 year old, a couple people in their 60s, a few older than that. What do they all have in common? Their obituaries say that due to the pandemic, the memorials and funerals will be held on a date to be determined in the future. 

My point is that every single death that is happening right now is being affected by COVID. Think of all the families who know their loved ones are lying in some refrigerator somewhere in a bag. The selfish bastards who are refusing to stay at home, the idiots preachers insisting on holding services this weekend... all of them are prolonging the horrifying pain for thousands and thousands and thousands of other people who cannot just get on with their lives until this nightmare ends.

This stupid, stupid bickering about how many young people have died from COVID is pointless. 

I had hopes that a post-COVID world might be a little bit nicer, but clearly it won't be. People are people and people are awful. Not a damn thing is going to change that. 

[Tolya Ugajin]

1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

This stupid, stupid bickering about how many young people have died from COVID is pointless. 

 

Filling in for Scylla today, we have Beth Macbain.  Back to your corners, everyone.  Let's go, move it!

[FairreLilette]

Reminds me of the song "Ohio" by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young where part of the song is saying:

 

Four dead in Ohio...

How many?  Four

Four dead in Ohio -

How many?  Four

 

 

[Marigold Devin]

9 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Does it really matter if a person is young or old? A death is a death. We lost a 3 year old client on Tuesday. No, not from COVID, but her family can't have a funeral for her. Is that any less devastating than a death related to COVID? 

Part of my job is looking up obituaries for people who have named us as the charity to receive memorial gifts. Just in the last week, I've had this 3 year old little girl, a 45 year old, a couple people in their 60s, a few older than that. What do they all have in common? Their obituaries say that due to the pandemic, the memorials and funerals will be held on a date to be determined in the future. 

My point is that every single death that is happening right now is being affected by COVID. Think of all the families who know their loved ones are lying in some refrigerator somewhere in a bag. The selfish bastards who are refusing to stay at home, the idiots preachers insisting on holding services this weekend... all of them are prolonging the horrifying pain for thousands and thousands and thousands of other people who cannot just get on with their lives until this nightmare ends.

This stupid, stupid bickering about how many young people have died from COVID is pointless. 

I had hopes that a post-COVID world might be a little bit nicer, but clearly it won't be. People are people and people are awful. Not a damn thing is going to change that. 

Perfectly put, Beth.

 

[ItHadToComeToThis]

1 hour ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Nice ad hominem.  The Guardian reporter, and you, may wish to stop and consider that the new regs were just passed, and most people do not yet realize that, say, if they have kids they can simply claim they have to stay home and not work because the kids aren't in school, and collect the equivalent of $15/hr.

And, please, knock it off with the histrionic "working and dying" crap.  The vast majority of fatalities are in retired people and those who are likely not working due to preexisting health conditions.  Working age and otherwise healthy adults have under a 1% chance of dying from Covid, if they catch it. 

 

I’m sick of seeing the phrase “Coronavirus”. I was hoping that this forum wouldn’t become inundated with posts and the “I have it worse than you” crowd would leave well alone. Sadly, it was not to be. I feel for those affected I really do, but there is no where to go to escape it. We have half truths on the real news, fake news on facebook, panic in the forums, conspiracy theories on YouTube. Like, I understand people are concerned but damn am I sick of hearing about it

Edited April 10, 2020 by ItHadToComeToThis