What does a post covid-19 world look like to you?

[Sassy Kenin]

19 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

So beautifully put, and reminded me how I want to spend time in my garden

That was one side of the coin, that was one summer for a small child who will never forget those plants & animals... the other side of the story is the following year i went back to that place to find several things had happened, the meadows that had all the butterflies was dead due to the fireworks plant nearby dumping chemicals in them, someone had went into the streams pulling all the small turtles out and beheading them while dumping there lifeless bodies all over the trail.

when i went to the owl tree that was the biggest tree in the center of the forest someone had came in and killed all the owls, leaving there bodies lifeless littered around the tree, I can't begin to explain what happened to me at this point other then a part of me died too even to this day.

the next month when i came back, someone had cut down that grand old tree that must have been several hundred years old, they did not take the tree or use it for anything, the tree was 8x times bigger then any other tree in the area, its legend went all way back to the native americans once in the area who revered it as a gentle giant of the forest protected by owl spirits. Looking upwards with the tree fallen it was as someone tore a hole in the sky above were the tree stood. It was a tragic ending to something beautiful, I no longer seen through the eyes of a child after that, while also believing as well that being misanthropic isn't such a bad thing.

[Luna Bliss]

8 hours ago, Shansi Kenin said:

the other side of the story is the following year i went back to that place to find several things had happened

This scene you've described brings tears to my eyes, and anger. The loss of all that beauty, the cruel actions of those who destroyed it, your young and impressionable mind that was forced to witness such cruelty and be negatively affected by it forever.
 
Who were the destroyers of your wild garden? Was its source the 'hustling culture' we currently exist in, where the profit motive trumps all, and nature is seen as a 'thing' to exploit instead of the beautiful form of life which has value in its own right. 
Or was it abject cruelty done by those who suffer an emptiness of the soul which allows them to inflict on the world the pain they feel inside? A 'taking out' of pain on what surrounds them.
Or was it some adolescent 'group bonding' exercise where strength is derived via scapegoating/destroying what they've deemed as 'other'?

I can slip into some misanthropy myself, and also it's easy to blame civilization itself, but mostly I know civilization is just mans attempt to feel safe from death. From the first agricultural societies where excess grain was finally a reality, and so hoarded to stave off starvation, and then guards were hired by kings who possessed the excess grain to fight off any who would attempt to access it, and so the stratification of the 'haves & have nots' were born where those at the top hoard most of the wealth while those at the bottom suffer.

Hustling culture, never more evidenced than in America -- growth at all costs -- the goal is to get more, hoard more, steal every last drop possible. I think fairly soon we'll realize that you can't have infinite growth on a finite planet, but it will be at the cost of great suffering. In an attempt to rebalance the planet 'Mother Earth' will kick the selfish, hoarding, misguided, unbelievably arrogant humans to the curb. Still, I can't hate people -- I try to forgive them because they really don't know what they've done.

Now back to my meditation, where I'm learning to experience that I don't need to grasp for anything, and that I have all I need in this moment. Oceans of love even, bliss.

[Sassy Kenin]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Who were the destroyers of your wild garden? Was its source the 'hustling culture' we currently exist in, where the profit motive trumps all, and nature is seen as a 'thing' to exploit instead of the beautiful form of life which has value in its own right. 

I like those viewpoints and can wholeheartedly relate Luna, mankind will be the instrument of it's own demise..it bothers me how they want to colonize mars while half the world is starving daily, we cannot fix our own problems here so instead of making things right lets just go destroy another world instead. Mars should be seen in it's natural state as a preserve.

Someone explained to me the 'haves & have nots'  a few years back, just like you explained with you both being right...it's all really I think due to our lifespan and personal accountability. over the years, over and over again its always the same excuse 'Well as long as it happens after i DIE, why should i care?'  we never hold our own selves responsible in a societal way to get past selfish personal outlooks that lead to so much destruction.. they talk about bringing back the dinosaurs when the talk is really to sedate people with the notion that whats happening today of hundreds of animals & plants going extinct weekly, we could just magically bring them back someday too, when we likely will not be here ourselves. so lets just pass the problems on to the next generation, over and over, time after time.

To be on directly topic( I went off the rails somewhat) well it all ties into the thread, as the last three days I have had 16 hour shifts so my reply thoughts were somewhat fragmented,

What does a post covid-19 world look like to you?

Well it made me remember, something from early in my life, a wonderful place that was destroyed by becoming a landfill for the county..we use landfills, oceans & rivers to basically dump all of our mistakes, we are too incapable of figuring out a system that could turn around and make that trash into something that benefit the world(nature) or it is greed to prevent?.this i believe will be our greatest fear come true from landfills & deep pollution,that what is happening will be the result of our own direct arrogance as a race.. these landfills will give us something in exchange for are lack of empathy towards the creatures who have every right to be here as we do, that we keep sending into oblivion.

Deer Chronic Wasting Disease i believe is related to this but not the disease directly as it is mother nature trying to formulate the antidote regarding us. that whats coming will make everyone think about Covid-19 as the good old days, when the power stayed on, when the water faucets worked.. whats going to happen will not be anything like flu, it will show no signs or symptoms as the years go by from now, it will be unexpected, 'almost' impossible to have been detected and by then 90% of the world will be infected. one day mother nature will fight back.. winning in the end.

 

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

On 4/11/2020 at 3:50 PM, Selene Gregoire said:

You worked at the Cornelius OR store didn't you.

Their counting machine breaks down all the time. I used to work there.

lol I reckon the machines are the same all over. big ass ugly heat generating drains.  When I first started working  in there we did it all manually and had a coin counter that always spit out coins all over the floor... then the recyclers came in and was supposed to make all our troubles go away... lol

Edited April 12, 2020 by Tarina Sewell

[FairreLilette]

56 minutes ago, Shansi Kenin said:

Deer Chronic Wasting Disease i believe is related to this but not the disease directly as it is mother nature trying to formulate the antidote regarding us. that whats coming will make everyone think about Covid-19 as the good old days, when the power stayed on, when the water faucets worked.. whats going to happen will not be anything like flu, it will show no signs or symptoms as the years go by from now, it will be unexpected, 'almost' impossible to have been detected and by then 90% of the world will be infected. one day mother nature will fight back.. winning in the end.

From my understanding, it is the BSE, AKA Mad Cow Disease that could transmit to humans via eating infected cow meat.  However, it is clear that an infected cow is an infected cow and that cow does not go to the meat market.  It may have in years past in Europe but Europe is much stricter now.  Also, I just read, Mad Cow Disease causes Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

The CWD is only in cervid species - deer, elk, moose as far as what I can find out.   

Below is the way BSE spreads to humans which is not very likely to happen:  (BTW, do you have any reputable scientific evidence to support what you are saying because I'm sure you know the internet has a myriad of articles on just about everything?)

Scientists believe that BSE is transmitted from animals to humans when humans eat meat from infected animals. ... BSE can be transmitted from one human to another through cannibalism or through transplantation of infected tissue.

Edited April 12, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Tarina Sewell said:

then the recyclers came in and was supposed to make all our troubles go away

 

What else is there to say? 

[Chaser Zaks]

I think perhaps it'll just go back to how it used to be, because people are people.

However, I do have a slight hope that people will understand and take my mysophobia(also known as germaphobia) a bit more seriously, because the way people are acting now is how I am 24/7(minus the face masks and stock piling), maybe a bit worse.

[Sassy Kenin]

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Now back to my meditation, where I'm learning to experience that I don't need to grasp for anything

Enjoy your meditating, it can be helpful dealing with life by temporary removing yourself from it.

grasping for things is so true, often the things that make us miserable is desire & want instead of being happy for the things we do have.

[Selene Gregoire]

11 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said:

I think perhaps it'll just go back to how it used to be, because people are people.

However, I do have a slight hope that people will understand and take my mysophobia(also known as germaphobia) a bit more seriously, because the way people are acting now is how I am 24/7(minus the face masks and stock piling), maybe a bit worse.

As long as you aren't killing off the good bacteria I see no problem with that. I know it sounds really icky (to put it mildly), yet, there are bacteria that are not harmful and are actually helpful. Both internally and externally. There's also this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_importance_of_bacteria

 

All I'm saying is just be a bit cautious about what products you use because they can kill the ones you really should have.

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

As long as you aren't killing off the good bacteria I see no problem with that. I know it sounds really icky (to put it mildly), yet, there are bacteria that are not harmful and are actually helpful. Both internally and externally. There's also this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_importance_of_bacteria

 

All I'm saying is just be a bit cautious about what products you use because they can kill the ones you really should have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_microbiome

The bugs in us outnumber the cells in us by about 3:1.

Years ago I learned that our gut bacteria can coerce us to eat stuff they like.

That's just awesome.

[Selene Gregoire]

54 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_microbiome

The bugs in us outnumber the cells in us by about 3:1.

Years ago I learned that our gut bacteria can coerce us to eat stuff they like.

That's just awesome.

Yeah I just hadn't hit the right search terms in just a couple of minutes to turn that up. Was planting the last of the violas and needed to get it finished up so I was in a bit of a hurry.

Thank you!

[Lindal Kidd]

5 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

The bugs in us outnumber the cells in us by about 3:1.

Years ago I learned that our gut bacteria can coerce us to eat stuff they like.

That's just awesome.

Ain't no microscopic mindless critters gonna tell ME what to do!

...resumes watching CNN.

 

Oh, hey, @Selene Gregoire...you planted these???

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

37 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Oh, hey, @Selene Gregoire...you planted these???

 

[AyelaNewLife]

One common theme I've noticed, definitely here in the UK but also across most of the "first world", is just how vital local authorities have been in the delivery of each government's response to the outbreak. No matter what power structure is in place, from a federal US/Germany to a much more centralised UK/French system, local democracy has been the key to saving lives. That relationship between central and local/regional governance is unlikely to come out of this unchanged.

I know most people don't really care about local governance or politics, but it's something worth keeping half an eye on. We could see some fundamental shifts in the balance of power over the next few years, and with that some real progress in addressing the regional inequalities that exist within every nation.

[Selene Gregoire]

10 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Ain't no microscopic mindless critters gonna tell ME what to do!

...resumes watching CNN.

 

Oh, hey, @Selene Gregoire...you planted these???

 

 

Violas, aka pansies. lol

[Luna Bliss]

Sadly, it's too hot where I live and the pansies don't survive for long. However, if planted in the fall they will bloom again in the spring before dying out.

[Luna Bliss]

19 hours ago, Shansi Kenin said:

mankind will be the instrument of it's own demise

So true Shansi, and I've endeavored to understand what went wrong. I can only see that the problem lies in our consciousness, and somewhere in the evolution of 'man' an imbalance occurred --  some humans experience themselves as separate from the rest of nature when they are not. Homo Sapiens (the clever ape) they are not. How can one know they are part of an ecosystem and live in balance if they feel they are separate from it, and believe they can rise above it, conquer it?

That's why I meditate -- it's an attempt to correct this imbalance so that the 'left-brain', that reductionist part of me that separates, does not dominate anymore. Our self is pure awareness - the self is not the thoughts I identify with that come bouncing into my mind willy-nilly, from who knows where.
It's an amazing process to experience the thinking part of me taking a back seat, though it kicks and screams along the way. It's not easy, for sure, though  I do get to feel bliss sometimes. 

[Madelaine McMasters]

17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

19 hours ago, Shansi Kenin said:

mankind will be the instrument of it's own demise

So true Shansi, and I've endeavored to understand what went wrong. I can only see that the problem lies in our consciousness, and somewhere in the evolution of 'man' an imbalance occurred --  some humans experience themselves as separate from the rest of nature when they are not. Homo Sapiens (the clever ape) they are not. How can one know they are part of an ecosystem and live in balance if they feel they are separate from it, and believe they can rise above it, conquer it?

Once you've been exposed to the concept of "equilibrium" in physical/biologic systems, it's not hard to see that humans will eventually be subjected to it. It's not like we have some special ability to bring about our own demise. Left alone, COVID-19 would peak and decline as well, and probably much more precipitously than mankind.

If you look at human performance in that light, there's still room for optimism.

[Ted McGregor]

A post covid-19 world continues to exploit labour, even when that labour barely can afford to remain healthy or sustain itself. Good ol' capitalism always wins.

Nothing changes aside the rate of casualties until a vaccin is ready.

"Made in China"  will prevail.

Edited April 13, 2020 by TDD123

[Luna Bliss]

18 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Once you've been exposed to the concept of "equilibrium" in physical/biologic systems, it's not hard to see that humans will eventually be subjected to it. It's not like we have some special ability to bring about our own demise. Left alone, COVID-19 would peak and decline as well, and probably much more precipitously than mankind.

If you look at human performance in that light, there's still room for optimism.

We are in the process of the 6th great extinction, destroying the rest of life we depend on for our existence. Pumping insane amounts of CO2 into the air is our "special ability". And dominating so much of nature that the viruses there have nowhere to go but into us. The only optimism I see is nature without humans returning again. It pains me to know this, to say this -- there's a lot of humans I love.

[Luna Bliss]

56 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

It's not like we have some special ability to bring about our own demise.

Why did/do some aboriginal peoples have the ability to not overstep their boundaries. If they were able to maintain needed balance with their environment, then non-aboriginal peoples could have done so as well.  The cancer of the Western mind did indeed have the special ability to bring about its own demise.

[Madelaine McMasters]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Why did/do some aboriginal peoples have the ability to not overstep their boundaries. If they were able to maintain needed balance with their environment, then non-aboriginal peoples could have done so as well.  The cancer of the Western mind did indeed have the special ability to bring about its own demise.

It's not so much that they had the ability to not overstep as that they did not have the ability to overstep.

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

they did not have the ability to overstep

I don't believe that theory, at least not for all of them. Many thought hoarding was weird. And if one person didn't eat then nobody did. It's a whole different mindset from the hoarding mind of the West.

And I hope you're not saying they had a simple mind. They could do math or write complex text if needed...this was proven by scholars during initial contacts in the Americas.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Madelaine McMasters]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I don't believe that theory, at least not for all of them. Many thought hoarding was weird. And if one person didn't eat then nobody did. It's a whole different mindset from the hoarding mind of the West.

And I hope you're not saying they had a simple mind. They could do math or write complex text if needed...this was proven  during American Native times in the Americas.

I'm not at all saying they had simple minds. They're just technologically unable to do what large manufacturing societies can do. Life expectancy of American Natives in pre-colonial times was pretty low, as it was for the new European settlers. We've come a long way since then, and I expect we've got a long way to go.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

They're just technologically unable to do what large manufacturing societies can do.

Well I guess we'll never know for sure. But it seems to me if they believed hoarding was wrong, and by many accounts we do see this, then they would not have used technology to hoard more than they needed. This would have felt abhorrent to them.  They were also very thankful for what was given to them from the environment, and taking more than they needed felt like stealing.

How different the Western mind is...where nature is seen as something to manipulate and conquer to maximize profit.