Jump to content

What does a post covid-19 world look like to you?


You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 595 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

It came down to a choice between two evils.  As I've said before, Hillary is crooked and smart.  Trump is crooked, but dumb.  I thought, at the time, that the Congress, the courts, and the career civil servants would be a counterbalance, and Trump would either be foiled thereby, or would self-destruct (as he's almost done a couple of times).  I didn't count on the Republican establishment enabling his stupidity to the extent they have.  I also did not see as clearly as we all should, now, how much of a sociopath he is.  Oops. 

I think, if we'd had Hillary, that we'd still be in a world of hurt, but it would be a different flavor of hurt.  No way of telling, now, if we'd like that flavor any better.

But, can we please refrain from partisan political discussion?  Please?  This thread is about a post-pandemic world...not only what we think we WILL get, but how to make it better.  Let's stick to that and we can keep the discussion going longer before we get locked.

I agree, keep the politics out of it. Luna, you are better than this. 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Nice hypocrisy.  You are the one insulting me.  I need neither a buffer nor something to make me "feel better", but apparently you do.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying but I have friends who go to work everyday and risk their health so people can shop for essentials and to hear you belittle their existence and deem them lowly workers making min wage struck me as insensitive to them.  So, if I in some way misunderstood than I do apologize. We do not need to be judging each other.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:
29 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How could you sound this intelligent to me, and yet you voted for Trump.

Please explain, and maybe I'll further my understanding of the Republican mind...

It came down to a choice between two evils.  As I've said before, Hillary is crooked and smart.  Trump is crooked, but dumb.  I thought, at the time, that the Congress, the courts, and the career civil servants would be a counterbalance, and Trump would either be foiled thereby, or would self-destruct (as he's almost done a couple of times).  I didn't count on the Republican establishment enabling his stupidity to the extent they have.  I also did not see as clearly as we all should, now, how much of a sociopath he is.  Oops. 

I think, if we'd had Hillary, that we'd still be in a world of hurt, but it would be a different flavor of hurt.  No way of telling, now, if we'd like that flavor any better.

But, can we please refrain from partisan political discussion?  Please?  This thread is about a post-pandemic world...not only what we think we WILL get, but how to make it better.  Let's stick to that and we can keep the discussion going longer before we get locked.

Thanks for the explanation.

I'm not sure I understand your analysis though -- of what happens when a particular candidate wins and how those around them influence further decisions. I look at the political platform of the party -- this will be what has the chance of going into effect.  Republican and Democrat platforms are very different -- the Democrats stand more for the common good (although they are far to the right in our present era, and I consider them neoliberal). And so, the Democrats will toss the disadvantaged in society a few more bones.  In contrast, the Republicans are all about individualism and tend to see poverty as a moral failing (many of them love Ayn Rand and see her vision as one to model society on, and let me tell you it doesn't exactly say that we should judge a society on how we treat the least among us, to say the least!).

There can be few individuals who care less for the "common good", as you say,  than Trump -- he is the antithesis of the "common good", via his narcissistic personality, and the stated goals of the party he represents (overly individualistic).

Anyway, we must understand these two systems of thought to make intelligent decisions regarding this pandemic and the future ones sure to follow.  

Edited by Luna Bliss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whether something is political  partisan politics comes down to attitude.

Am I trying to sway you so I can win, like we're in a war, and I can feel superior over beating you? 

Or am I trying to sway you because I see a better way and want to convince you of it so we can have a better society.

Edited by Luna Bliss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

...the idea of the "job" as being something separate from a task that actually needed to be done. People want "jobs" to be created because most people can't support themselves without one. In the United States it's particularly blatant because jobs are also the vector for things like health insurance. People like to say that "America is the land of opportunity" and "encourages entrepreneurship", but in order to really do something bold you need to be able to take chances and make a mistake without worrying about losing your basic necessities....

While this may be true...often "the bold" is backed by money or needs a safety net of some kind of money because there aren't that many Bill Gates in the world.   And, with Bill Gates and his friend Paul, I think the government (the real government is the rich man in the shadows) was more interested in their knowledge and how they were going to implement that knowledge.

The rich world government aside from our being an amusement really only need us for one other reason:  to be a consumer.

If the rich world government wanted to find another Bill Gates for example or the next great ______________ (fill in the blank), they could genetically modify and use their own sperm to find "the bold" as well as consumers.  

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yep, this accusation is basically the way opposing views try to shut you down.

I wouldn't say that. Beyond the comments I've already made and the article I've linked, I haven't anything further to add, at least not yet. I'm finding the discussion interesting. But I don't believe it's possible to have an apolitical discussion about the coronavirus response. It's a massive health and economic crisis. How can any discussion of it not have socio-political elements? 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

All along I have been talking about WORKING-age young people -- not children.

 

I guess it depends on your definition of 'young' and 'many' (bolding below is mine)

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

And many young people ARE dying. 

 

Out of almost 5000 deaths as of the latest update, we have 54 that are ages 34 and under, and 183 that are 44 and under.

From the CDC web page:

image.thumb.png.1d0cdf01a114159fa6a55a824b6cfb13.png

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

as of the latest update

How could the latest update of April 10 say only 5000 have died?...more than 16,000 have died in the US.

Also, it's in more recent news articles that I've seen a change in the attitude expressing that the young slide by pretty much unscathed....it looks like more young are being affected via severe illness and death than previously thought.

Edited by Luna Bliss
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying but I have friends who go to work everyday and risk their health so people can shop for essentials and to hear you belittle their existence and deem them lowly workers making min wage struck me as insensitive to them.  So, if I in some way misunderstood than I do apologize. We do not need to be judging each other.

I accept your apology.  I do not mean to belittle anyone, and I'm not devaluing people when I say their jobs are easily automated, I'm simply stating the facts as I see them.

When I was young, my first job was at McDonald's.  I worked with a gentleman in his early 70's, Marty.  We worked together for several years, and he was like a non-ahole father to me (my old man made tough love seem like a velvet glove, and teenage boys seldom appreciate fathers who are tough).  Marty didn't work because he had to, he worked because retirement was boring.  I always knew my dad worked a lot, but I never actually saw him work, and so Marty was a great role model of work ethic for me, as well as demonstrating the simple dignity of work, ANY work.  Anyway, Marty would never have been hired in the McDonald's of today, not because the company is greedy or evil, but because between downward pressure on prices, upward pressure on labor costs, and availability of technology permit McDonald's to run a lunch rush with half (or fewer) the number of employees, so a friendly guy who isn't very fast on his feet wouldn't be appealing to a hiring manager.  It's sad to think young workers today are much less likely to have an early work experience like this, and since I'd assumed I'd be "Marty" when I retired (I loved working fast food), I'm a little sad for myself.  But, I don't let emotion cloud my judgment of reality, and I don't sugarcoat things or rail against the inevitable march of progress.  Yeah, I know it can make me come across like a cold, callous, Richard.  But in reality, I'm just a plain old Richard ;)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How could the latest update of April 10 say only 5000 have died?...more than 16,000 have died in the US.

Also, it's in more recent news articles that I've seen a change in the attitude expressing that the young slide by pretty much unscathed....it looks like more young are being affected via severe illness and death than previously thought.

Sorry - missed the second half of the stats (got interrupted with work stuff and lost my train of thought).  

The first set of stats are those they attribute totally to COVID-19.  There is a second set that are attributed to Pneumonia & COVID-19.  Those numbers still don't show HUGE number of deaths for those under 45.  But, as I said, it depends on how 'young' and 'many' are defined in the grand scheme of things.

image.thumb.png.a9319ddc020e9e59dfaa4fda2f07798a.png

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question of why the severity of this disease is so age-sensitive is technically interesting -- along with all its other oddities. What is it, when it's clearly not merely pre-existing comorbidities, unless we count age itself. There's something very strange going on here, perhaps exposure to some other virus, long ago, that "primed" the immune system for its horrific, host-killing response to this one. Perhaps these oddities will reveal the virus's vulnerabilities -- especially important if an effective vaccine proves to be decades remote.

But nobody seems to be exploring those medical questions about age-sensitivity here. Instead it's all about... well, I'm not sure. The older you are, the more deserving you are of death? The more you appeal to the Dark Angel of the Just-World Hypothesis? And so it's not such a bad disease after all -- why all the fuss? Will nobody NOT think of the children?

Or is this all just a fun new way to pretend this all was overblown? Just like the flu only five times as contagious, no immunity, and no vaccine in sight? And so it was okay we were all completely unprepared for a pandemic and it was no big deal our national command authorities sat on their fat asses for months while it spread around the globe? That's why it's so important too few kids are dying?

Edited by Qie Niangao
it's != its
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

I accept your apology.  I do not mean to belittle anyone, and I'm not devaluing people when I say their jobs are easily automated, I'm simply stating the facts as I see them.

When I was young, my first job was at McDonald's.  I worked with a gentleman in his early 70's, Marty.  We worked together for several years, and he was like a non-ahole father to me (my old man made tough love seem like a velvet glove, and teenage boys seldom appreciate fathers who are tough).  Marty didn't work because he had to, he worked because retirement was boring.  I always knew my dad worked a lot, but I never actually saw him work, and so Marty was a great role model of work ethic for me, as well as demonstrating the simple dignity of work, ANY work.  Anyway, Marty would never have been hired in the McDonald's of today, not because the company is greedy or evil, but because between downward pressure on prices, upward pressure on labor costs, and availability of technology permit McDonald's to run a lunch rush with half (or fewer) the number of employees, so a friendly guy who isn't very fast on his feet wouldn't be appealing to a hiring manager.  It's sad to think young workers today are much less likely to have an early work experience like this, and since I'd assumed I'd be "Marty" when I retired (I loved working fast food), I'm a little sad for myself.  But, I don't let emotion cloud my judgment of reality, and I don't sugarcoat things or rail against the inevitable march of progress.  Yeah, I know it can make me come across like a cold, callous, Richard.  But in reality, I'm just a plain old Richard ;)

I get your point, I just got super sensitive and reacted.. Thanks for accepting. ; )

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:
32 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yep, this accusation is basically the way opposing views try to shut you down.

I wouldn't say that.

Yep, I should not speak so much in general.

I'd say it's more the way LittleMe and a couple others on the forum have tried to shut me down, and gotten threads closed   :)

And come back, Pamela, you are missed. And Christians are still good even if they say FO...lol.

Edited by Luna Bliss
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

I get your point, I just got super sensitive and reacted.. Thanks for accepting. ; )

It's OK, I'm not the nicest guy, so I apologize as well.  I'd give you a big hug, but that's how sexual harassment claims begin 😛

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The question of why the severity of this disease is so age-sensitive is technically interesting -- along with all its other oddities. What is it, when it's clearly not merely pre-existing comorbidities, unless we count age itself. There's something very strange going on here, perhaps exposure to some other virus, long ago, that "primed" the immune system for its horrific, host-killing response to this one. Perhaps these oddities will reveal the virus's vulnerabilities -- especially important if an effective vaccine proves to be decades remote.

A lot of elderly people die of pneumonia, aside from the ones caused by Covid...so perhaps we should look there (why do the elderly have trouble recovering from pneumonia in general).

Edited by Luna Bliss
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, RangiUtu said:

Lovely Mae West line but you forgot the citation and quotation marks.

Mae West said that?  I had no idea.  But, thanks to google, I can get it right:  "Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before."

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The question of why the severity of this disease is so age-sensitive is technically interesting -- along with all its other oddities. What is it, when it's clearly not merely pre-existing comorbidities, unless we count age itself. There's something very strange going on here, perhaps exposure to some other virus, long ago, that "primed" the immune system for its horrific, host-killing response to this one. Perhaps these oddities will reveal the virus's vulnerabilities -- especially important if an effective vaccine proves to be decades remote.

But nobody seems to be exploring those medical questions about age-sensitivity here. Instead it's all about... well, I'm not sure. The older you are, the more deserving you are of death? The more you appeal to the Dark Angel of the Just-World Hypothesis? And so it's not such a bad disease after all -- why all the fuss? Will nobody NOT think of the children?

Or is this all just a fun new way to pretend this all was overblown? Just like the flu only five times as contagious, no immunity, and no vaccine in sight? And so it was okay we were all completely unprepared for a pandemic and it was no big deal our national command authorities sat on their fat asses for months while it spread around the globe? That's why it's so important too few kids are dying?

I read some stats -- would have to go dig to find them again -- that showed, either here in Colorado or in the US, that the largest underlying condition was high blood pressure. That is something that is often much more common as we get older, so that may have something to do with why the older are dying more.  Also, since it is primarily a respiratory issue, it does see logical that those with underlying respiratory problems will have the hardest time with it.  COPD is much more common in older folks and they are more susceptible to complications like pneumonia.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

A lot of elderly people die of pneumonia, aside from the ones caused by Covid...so perhaps we should look there (why do the elderly have trouble recovering from pneumonia in general).

Very true.  Both my parents died of pneumonia.  In both cases, it was a matter of "food going down the wrong pipe."  The reason for THAT varies a lot, but it is apparently quite common in elderly people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The question of why the severity of this disease is so age-sensitive is technically interesting -- along with all its other oddities. What is it, when it's clearly not merely pre-existing comorbidities, unless we count age itself. There's something very strange going on here, perhaps exposure to some other virus, long ago, that "primed" the immune system for its horrific, host-killing response to this one. Perhaps these oddities will reveal the virus's vulnerabilities -- especially important if an effective vaccine proves to be decades remote.

But nobody seems to be exploring those medical questions about age-sensitivity here. Instead it's all about... well, I'm not sure. The older you are, the more deserving you are of death? The more you appeal to the Dark Angel of the Just-World Hypothesis? And so it's not such a bad disease after all -- why all the fuss? Will nobody NOT think of the children?

Or is this all just a fun new way to pretend this all was overblown? Just like the flu only five times as contagious, no immunity, and no vaccine in sight? And so it was okay we were all completely unprepared for a pandemic and it was no big deal our national command authorities sat on their fat asses for months while it spread around the globe? That's why it's so important too few kids are dying?

Maybe this has something to do with it also.  Our East coast version seems to have come from Wuhan via Europe and the New York infection & death rates are much higher than the West coast areas.  The New York rates are more similar to Spain and Italy.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/27/scientists-track-coronavirus-strains-mutation/5080571002/

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 595 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...