gwendol1ne Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 i have not understood: There will be TWO separate check boxes we have to click to accept TOS AND Tilia? If so i will accept ONLY the TOS checkbox and I WILL NOT accept the Tilia checkbox in that case (if i accept ONLY Tos and not Tilia) will i be able to use SL? if i won't be able to access anymore SL, well i will survive and bye bye SL! (i am NOT premium, i don't pay tiers and of course i have zero USD balance) 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 No. Bye. 1 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdmundPendragon Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Good morning Qie, After the initial Tilia wave, I thought it had been established while we would have to agree with the Tilia TOS on August 1st, it will only affect those users that take out RL money from SL. That those users that do no take OUT RL money are only affected by checking the Tilia TOS box on August 1st. Has that changed? Thanks, Ed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, EdmundPendragon said: Good morning Qie, After the initial Tilia wave, I thought it had been established while we would have to agree with the Tilia TOS on August 1st, it will only affect those users that take out RL money from SL. That those users that do no take OUT RL money are only affected by checking the Tilia TOS box on August 1st. Has that changed? Thanks, Ed nothing has changed, from start was mentioned ALL that log in have to accept the Tillia/TOS, every resident gets a Tillia account, use it or not, doesn't matter. If you do not want to accept, it's simply 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, EdmundPendragon said: ... users that do no take OUT RL money are only affected by checking the Tilia TOS box on August 1st. Has that changed? I don't think anything has changed. As I understand it, we'll all need to accept the Tilia TOS just to be able to login to SL (and probably the Forums, the dashboard, the Jira, any SL-related sign-in process -- at least that's how I'd want to do it to stay legal). The only folks actually affected in any material way are those who will withdraw US$s from their accounts. But there are plenty of other folks who have worked themselves up into a frothy frenzy of FUD who are already affected by how their disordered minds perceive Tilia, perhaps aided by conspiracy theorists with NOTECARDS. Those people are completely screwed by this, and it's increasingly clear there's no cure. 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, EdmundPendragon said: Good morning Qie, After the initial Tilia wave, I thought it had been established while we would have to agree with the Tilia TOS on August 1st, it will only affect those users that take out RL money from SL. That those users that do no take OUT RL money are only affected by checking the Tilia TOS box on August 1st. Has that changed? Thanks, Ed as far as I understood everyone has to agree If you ever try a Limit Buy you will be affected - you will not realize it, but legally you will. The only way to stop Tilea would be not to log into SL from August 1st forth - hoping enough others do the same for the Lab to change their mind... let me tell you something about human nature: This won't happen Edited July 11, 2019 by Fionalein 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdmundPendragon Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: I don't think anything has changed. As I understand it, we'll all need to accept the Tilia TOS just to be able to login to SL (and probably the Forums, the dashboard, the Jira, any SL-related sign-in process -- at least that's how I'd want to do it to stay legal). The only folks actually affected in any material way are those who will withdraw US$s from their accounts. But there are plenty of other folks who have worked themselves up into a frothy frenzy of FUD who are already affected by how their disordered minds perceive Tilia, perhaps aided by conspiracy theorists with NOTECARDS. Those people are completely screwed by this, and it's increasingly clear there's no cure. Thank you Qie While I don't like agreeing to the Tilia TOS, thus making it seem like I am a Tilia customer (which as long as I don't withdraw RL funds from SL I am not really, I just save up my stipend each week for any Marketplace purchases), I honestly do not see the harm for me to simply check that box. Thanks, Ed 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarre Marques Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 5 hours ago, EdmundPendragon said: ..... as long as I don't withdraw RL funds from SL ...... I just save up my stipend each week for any Marketplace purchases), I honestly do not see the harm for me to simply check that box. ..... Agreed, yes, succinctly put! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoiraKathleen Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Tilia has been around and has been handling some payment services for a couple of years. There was a LL TOS update which mentioned Tilia back in July of 2017. So it's not a new thing, and I'm thinking the changes taking place August 1st are follow up/final steps/formalization for making the switch over for handling of certain types of financial transactions. I would imagine that the reason everyone needs to agree to the new TOS is that even though you might not cash out and process credit now, that might not always hold true in the future (situations and circumstances change). 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, moirakathleen said: I would imagine that the reason everyone needs to agree to the new TOS is that even though you might not cash out and process credit now, that might not always hold true in the future (situations and circumstances change). All the more reason for it to be opt in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoiraKathleen Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: All the more reason for it to be opt in. Not necessarily. I think it's being proactive, so that if I am blessed enough to become a creator next year and make enough to want to process credit, I won't be surprised at that point about having to provide ID and tax information. People who have processed credit that reached some threshold have had to provide the type of identification information for a few years now, already. What sounds like it will be different to me is that all people processing credit will be required to do so, not just the ones who reach some dollar amount or number of transaction threshold. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, moirakathleen said: Not necessarily. I think it's being proactive, so that if I am blessed enough to become a creator next year and make enough to want to process credit, I won't be surprised at that point about having to provide ID and tax information. People who have processed credit that reached some threshold have had to provide the type of identification information for a few years now, already. What sounds like it will be different to me is that all people processing credit will be required to do so, not just the ones who reach some dollar amount or number of transaction threshold. Living in the US, I expect to have to provide documentation whenever financial transactions take place. It wasn't until after I'd become an adult that providing proof of who you are became the norm when writing checks or using a credit card. About the only time you do not have to present photo ID at banks is when you are making a deposit. Any other transaction, you must have photo ID. That is not my point. My point is having to agree to a financial account that is not needed or wanted, just to be able to continue logging in. Clicking that agree button constitutes signing a contract. A contract that I must agree to if I want to continue logging in for a FINANCIAL account I have no use for. A legal obligation for a service I will NOT be using. And even if my financial situation does happen to change in the future (highly unlikely) that is the point at which I would be willing to agree to the Tilia ToS. Not knowing what the future will bring is precisely why I object to being forced to sign a contract, in order to remain in SL, for a financial account. This is my @$$ that is being put on the line by LL, financially, when I hardly have a pot to piss in. Edited July 11, 2019 by Selene Gregoire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 The main reason I can see that everyone needs to agree to the TOS is to show that everyone has been told how the system works and understands the provisions of that system and agrees to the provisions should at any point in the future it might be necessary to use the system to withdraw USD$ from their account. Whether you use it or not it is prudent for LL to have records showing that you were made aware of how the system works and agreed to the terms governing how your USD$ balance will be maintained. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 16 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: Living in the US, I expect to have to provide documentation whenever financial transactions take place. It wasn't until after I'd become an adult that providing proof of who you are became the norm when writing checks or using a credit card. About the only time you do not have to present photo ID at banks is when you are making a deposit. Any other transaction, you must have photo ID. That is not my point. My point is having to agree to a financial account that is not needed or wanted, just to be able to continue logging in. Clicking that agree button constitutes signing a contract. A contract that I must agree to if I want to continue logging in for a FINANCIAL account I have no use for. A legal obligation for a service I will NOT be using. And even if my financial situation does happen to change in the future (highly unlikely) that is the point at which I would be willing to agree to the Tilia ToS. Not knowing what the future will bring is precisely why I object to being forced to sign a contract, in order to remain in SL, for a financial account. This is my @$$ that is being put on the line by LL, financially, when I hardly have a pot to piss in. You already have the financial account and have had it at least since Lindens could be converted to US dollars. This whole magillah is essentially the same thing as having your mortgage sold, only it's been "sold" to a group within the same company. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoiraKathleen Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 To some extent, we are already using some services provided by Tilia: 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Spark Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said: Living in the US, I expect to have to provide documentation whenever financial transactions take place. It wasn't until after I'd become an adult that providing proof of who you are became the norm when writing checks or using a credit card. About the only time you do not have to present photo ID at banks is when you are making a deposit. Any other transaction, you must have photo ID. That is not my point. My point is having to agree to a financial account that is not needed or wanted, just to be able to continue logging in. Clicking that agree button constitutes signing a contract. A contract that I must agree to if I want to continue logging in for a FINANCIAL account I have no use for. A legal obligation for a service I will NOT be using. And even if my financial situation does happen to change in the future (highly unlikely) that is the point at which I would be willing to agree to the Tilia ToS. Not knowing what the future will bring is precisely why I object to being forced to sign a contract, in order to remain in SL, for a financial account. This is my @$$ that is being put on the line by LL, financially, when I hardly have a pot to piss in. But we are not agreeing to any expenditure or any obligation on our end of the contract prior to willingly using the service by processing credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 It's been said several times, but I will repeat, since it's clear that a lot of folks have not been listening. YOU ARE ALREADY DOING BUSINESS WITH TILIA. Take a look at MoiraKathleen's screenshot two posts up. This has been the case for three years now! LL is now asking you to agree to a second set of terms and conditions because of US laws that now require a somewhat greater separation between Second Life and LL's Tilia subsidiary, which handles the money. Everyone must agree to the Tilia terms in order to continue using SL. Selene, just by having an SL avatar account, you DO have a financial account, although there might not be any money in it. Because of that, you do have to agree to the terms and conditions of that account. However, you do not have to provide any additional personal information EXCEPT if you wish to do a Process Credit transaction and take money out of SL back into RL. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Blockstack just got SEC approval for their token.Tilia should go for SEC approval for Linden dollars, and accept that they run a financial institution. The Tilia terms try to weasel out of LL's financial obligations. The honest route is to acknowledge that Linden Dollars are a store of value, and get all the necessary approvals. That's what Facebook is doing for their token. YouNow has a SEC-approved token. The way this is going, unregistered tokens and sleazy contract terms are more likely to be a problem for than getting SEC registration as a security. The regulatory environment for "tokens" just changed in a big way. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, animats said: Blockstack just got SEC approval for their token.Tilia should go for SEC approval for Linden dollars, and accept that they run a financial institution. The Tilia terms try to weasel out of LL's financial obligations. The honest route is to acknowledge that Linden Dollars are a store of value, and get all the necessary approvals. That's what Facebook is doing for their token. YouNow has a SEC-approved token. should the L$ go down this path then every L$-denominated transaction between residents would fall within the purview of the IRS. Which might be a step to far for the continued viability of SL from the creator merchant pov 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheriColette Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) I wonder, come the 1st, how many people will not sign the Tilia agreement just through ignorance because they are not informed and have missed these discussions in the forum! That is if the two agreements are set out separably. One may think they have the option to sign one and not the other. Of course if they are both linked as in 'tick the box to agree to TOS and Tilia' then people will just do that, even without thinking. Edited July 11, 2019 by CheriColette Undo BOLD 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, CheriColette said: I wonder, come the 1st, how many people will not sign the Tilia agreement just through ignorance because they are not informed and have missed these discussions in the forum! We should watch the users statistics in 1nd ... sure will be interesting - but I bet people will just accept it not even realizing it is for another company ... With all the fun of lawsuits following as customers will be adamant never to have accepted anything called Tilia's TOS... Edited July 11, 2019 by Fionalein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kia Kiyori Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 14 hours ago, gwendol1ne said: i have not understood: There will be TWO separate check boxes we have to click to accept TOS AND Tilia? If so i will accept ONLY the TOS checkbox and I WILL NOT accept the Tilia checkbox in that case (if i accept ONLY Tos and not Tilia) will i be able to use SL? if i won't be able to access anymore SL, well i will survive and bye bye SL! (i am NOT premium, i don't pay tiers and of course i have zero USD balance) It would be sad to see you go, gwendol1ne. Perhaps if you understood that we've kind of been agreeing to this since we joined SL anyway, would that change your mind? It's just a formality. I'm not overly fond of the skulduggery of ticking boxes with a plethora of excuses for businesses to hide behind either, but someone mentioned the Patriot Act so I guess it's a thing. Mind you, I haven't a clue what the Patriot Act is - I once heard my dad mention to someone that "the patriot act was created by swamp rats to cover their crimes" and thought it was some kind of play...haha (I guess not!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 To be honest I am really surprised no one at LL took the whole alt currency thing seriously enough to get in on the trick, what with running an alt currency *coughs* sorry, 'token exchange' since before any of the current madness even started. How long before we're shouting at LL to add zuckbuck support. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, CoffeeDujour said: zuckbuck what is that? Sounds like Facebook's very own cryptocurrency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fionalein said: what is that? Sounds like Facebook's very own cryptocurrency A global currency controlled by a hand picked list of corporations removing monetary powers from publicly accountable policy makers... no, that would never happen. /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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