I Will not accept Tilia

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

No not at all, but what does that have to do with it? Does that mean I have no right to my opinion, cause I lack the knowledge of customer service.

You have every right to your opinion, and a right to articulate it here. 

My point is that what you are suggesting here would produce a public relations and customer service disaster of truly epic proportions.

To be clear, again: they will panic half of those faced with this, and possibly outright lose the other half.

And. It. Is. COMPLETELY. Unnecessary.

I'm done with this. As badly as LL has fumbled the ball on this one, I actually think they have a better handle on this now than you do. At least I sure hope so.

[Robin Kiyori]

3 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

No, but here is the thing. You are responsible, to keep yourself well informed. So if you can't hear that well, and I totally feel bad that you can't. Then you find other avenues to get your info.

..While I am an advocate for people  using critical  thinking skills and  figuring out their own. I find your  post  right here, Very... ableist. You may not have intended it. But  by  putting the  onus on Selene instead of the Lab to provide the tools for  those that are deaf/hard of hearing to follow along. You are implying that   it is the fault of the  hard of hearing/Deaf person.

 

..Which is  not a good look for anyone.   The Lab and  many other places should  do more to make  information more accessible for all. That's not demanding that it be spoonfed to the person without any effort. But that the information already supplied  is  yanno.. Able to be  accessed.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

16 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

If you don't like what is happening, or don't want to take the steps to be informed. Then you can easily leave SL.

Don't you think there could be room for improvement on both sides? That LL could always learn to communicate better and that residents could do a better job of keeping informed too?

The initial message was so confusing. If they had explained better before heading for the 4th of July hills this fiasco might not have ensued, or at the very least not reached epic proportions.

[Fionalein]

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Don't you think there could be room for improvement on both sides? That LL could always learn to communicate better and that residents could do a better job of keeping informed too?

This isn't the 90s anymore - users just expect that kind of service nowadays.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

This isn't the 90s anymore - users just expect that kind of service nowadays.

Oh you mean customer service has gotten worse overall since the 90's?

[Solar Legion]

16 minutes ago, AylinVali said:

..While I am an advocate for people  using critical  thinking skills and  figuring out their own. I find your  post  right here, Very... ableist. You may not have intended it. But  by  putting the  onus on Selene instead of the Lab to provide the tools for  those that are deaf/hard of hearing to follow along. You are implying that   it is the fault of the  hard of hearing/Deaf person.

 

..Which is  not a good look for anyone.   The Lab and  many other places should  do more to make  information more accessible for all. That's not demanding that it be spoonfed to the person without any effort. But that the information already supplied  is  yanno.. Able to be  accessed.

Hi. Legally blind user here. I do what I have to do to get information and actually use the service, which is not easy whatsoever. Interacting with me here or within Second Life proper, you'd likely be easily fooled into thinking otherwise - hooray for coping mechanisms/techniques!

Oh yes, and if you have to question the intent behind what a user has posted you can do one of two things: Ask for intent (which from the look of the above response, you did not actually do) or set aside your perceptions and simply react to what is right in front of you (the actual text/what was explicitly said).

That is not easy either - speaking from personal experience, on both ends of that.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Solar Legion
Added a sentence

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, I'm trying to understand how you think this should work.

On August 1, someone with, say, 3 $US in their Tilia account tries to log in to SL, and gets a prompt that they have to agree to the TOS for this company they've never heard of before.

And it's your suggestion that they should find the video of the town hall -- for which, btw, there is still no official LL recording or transcription -- and watch all of it -- the version I've seen is almost one and a quarter hours  long -- so that they can understand what they are about to click on? Have you watched the video? Was it easy to follow? Engaging?

Seriously?

What platform or service in the world would ask their users to go through that??

I hope like hell that LL cares more about their customers than you seem to.

Here's the thing: Someone with 3 $US in their Tilia account would have that because at some point they've sold Lindens to get a US dollar cash balance, which means that they would understand that process already and then learning that it would now be handled by Tilia would be a change, but not an overwhelming one. I've previously sold Lindens and carried a US dollar balance and the initial blog post made sense to me, particularly as I was already familiar with the idea of Tilia as I'd read blog posts about it years ago.

Was it the greatest blog post in the world? No. But it was generally useful for me.

A lot of the people who have been most concerned with the change have obviously never gone through the process of selling Lindens though. Nothing wrong with that, mind you, but it means that they're missing several layers of information, and for them the blog post was a mystery and, for people of a certain mindset, a scary mystery. Unfortunately many people of that mindset also tend to grab a pitchfork and demand justice before or instead of trying to find out the information they're missing.

Writers of blog posts should be careful about how they explain technical issues to people who aren't familiar with them, but on the other hand readers shouldn't read things assuming everything the Lab does is done for the sole purpose of making them grovel hand and foot in Belial's gripe.

[Fionalein]

5 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Here's the thing: Someone with 3 $US in their Tilia account would have that because at some point they've sold Lindens to get a US dollar cash balance

not neccesarily ... there are other ways to get a positive balance,...

[Chic Aeon]

The OFFICIAL SL Town Hall video is here and has been up since yesterday late afternoon as I updated my blog post with the link. I haven't seen any transcript yet though so if someone knows where it is, please post. Thanks.

 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

The OFFICIAL SL Town Hall video is here and has been up since yesterday late afternoon as I updated my blog post with the link. I haven't seen any transcript yet though so if someone knows where it is, please post. Thanks.

 

 

Did they answer good questions, or are we still foggy?

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

not neccesarily ... there are other ways to get a positive balance,...

Tell us some of the ways, please?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Writers of blog posts should be careful about how they explain technical issues to people who aren't familiar with them, but on the other hand readers shouldn't read things assuming everything the Lab does is done for the sole purpose of making them grovel hand and foot in Belial's gripe.

No, of course they shouldn't. There is unquestionably a fair amount of illogical and irrational tinfoil-hat stuff flying around; Hanlon's Razor should definitely be in full force here. The whole reason I've been trying to answer questions about this change -- here and in-world -- is precisely because I don't think that this is either very scary, or particularly difficult to understand.

In a really vital sense, however, none of this to the point. Possibly Qie is right, and LL should have just kept this quiet, not announcing it widely, and just hitting those who were going to be directly affected by Tilia with the TOS (except that they seem to have initially wanted everyone signed on).

But they didn't. And so instead we see people who shouldn't need to care panicking.

Arguing that LL shouldn't need to explain this more carefully than they already have is a bit like an historian trying to explain that WWII should never have happened; it doesn't matter how well-founded and rational his logic; the fact is that it did happen.

So, whether or not LL has some moral obligation to deal with this mess is a pointless debate. They need to deal now with the reality of what has happened (whether their fault or not), or they deal down the road instead with a much larger crowd of confused, upset, and potentially former customers.

[Fionalein]

21 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

 Tell us some of the ways, please?

canceling a Limit Buy that would never fullfill - the USD balance would then go to your balance

[Chic Aeon]

53 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Did they answer good questions, or are we still foggy?

They answered many questions -- some which had already been answered on the FAQ page and others which hadn't been answered. There were new questions posed and there was some further "new" information given out. 

 

Not all questions on the FAQ forum page were answered  and I am not surprised at that, but both "that other blogger" and I were happy with what we heard. I felt it was a good compromise from what was presented at the beginning and  the changes made solved my personal issues and I can now "work around Tilia" which I plan to do. So personally I was VERY happy. 

 

My blog report on Tilia has links to all the official sources and its purpose to to encourage the readers to DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH and MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS.  My personal decision to no longer "process credit" to Paypal is MY decision and is certainly not applicable or useful to more than a handful of others*.   I am giving the same "do your own research and talk to support" answer to those that have asked me questions personally. We EACH need to take responsibility for our own actions. That's really the bottom line -- for me anyway. 

 

BTW there were no questions after the cameras stopped rolling and I believe this was the first Town Hall that was streamed. Personally I thought that was a very good choice and hope they continue that method in the future.  IMO Grumpity could do with a better microphone but the guys were crystal clear and very easy to understand. 

 

* Edit: Well maybe more than a handful since I know four five folks that have made that decision so that's already a "handful" in my definition --- but certainly not anything I am encouraging except  for the folks that feel it is right for THEM.    

Edited July 13, 2019 by Chic Aeon
adding info and ACCEPT became except :D duh

[Drake1 Nightfire]

I find it very interesting that a first time poster, that joined SL in April, vents about not accepting Tilia and garners 139 reponses and NEVER ONCE REPLIES.  Does no one have the ability to smell trolls anymore? This goes along with the "I WANT MY HOUSEBOAT OR IM DROPPING PREMIUM!!!!" posts.. 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I find it very interesting that a first time poster, that joined SL in April, vents about not accepting Tilia and garners 139 reponses and NEVER ONCE REPLIES.  Does no one have the ability to smell trolls anymore? This goes along with the "I WANT MY HOUSEBOAT OR IM DROPPING PREMIUM!!!!" posts.. 

 

Because no one else cares about this issue?

A troll is someone who deliberately stirs up turmoil where none existed before. They are provocateurs. This is instead someone addressing an issue that was on everyone's mind already. The separate thread may be unnecessary, but this is hardly trolling: the things that have been said here would undoubtedly have been said on that other thread anyway.

[Ted McGregor]

34 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The separate thread may be unnecessary.

It's not .. it was setup so comments on the matter wouldn't immediately be deleted as LL promised to do and did in the official thread.

I mean it has it's purpose.

Edited July 13, 2019 by TDD123

[Drake1 Nightfire]

34 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Because no one else cares about this issue?

A troll is someone who deliberately stirs up turmoil where none existed before. They are provocateurs. This is instead someone addressing an issue that was on everyone's mind already. The separate thread may be unnecessary, but this is hardly trolling: the things that have been said here would undoubtedly have been said on that other thread anyway.

The things said here were already said in the official thread that was created on July 2nd.. Every question she posed in the OP was already answered a week ago.. All she had to do was read.. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, TDD123 said:

It's not .. it was setup so comments on the matter wouldn't immediately be deleted as LL promised to do and did in the official thread.

Well, actually I meant the OTHER other thread -- Garnet's thread on "Tilia Takes Over." But, yeah.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Drake1 Nightfire said:

The things said here were already said in the official thread that was created on July 2nd.. Every question she posed in the OP was already answered a week ago.. All she had to do was read.. 

The official thread is only for questions. It was regularly pruned, not merely of comments, but of both questions that were deemed, for whatever reason, unnecessary, undesirable, or irrelevant, and of answers, including a number of mine, all of which actually quoted the official FAQ.

And the answers to her questions were far from clear when she posted this. And, of course, the game has changed since then: she'll no longer need to accept the Tilia TOS, which she did, as of a week ago.

The communication of information on this subject here has been an utter mess. Try not to think like a forumite, Drake! Not every SL residents wants to trawl through pages and pages of confused and sometimes misleading posts to find simple answers! And they shouldn't have to -- not if LL knew what it was about.

[Ted McGregor]

The OP's post might have been redundant, but the reactions show the subject is still alive and will be until said date. So this works apparantly as a venting mechanism.

The course is inevitable. And all of us will have to comply.

It's true this is all ambient noise that will fade.

 

Until the next change.

Edited July 13, 2019 by TDD123

[KT Kingsley]

I seem to have learned something new (new to me, at least).

If Inara Pey's blog (here) correctly reports Grumpity Linden's statements at the Tilia town hall meeting, I and most other SL users won't even have to accept the Tillia Terms of service to continue using SL. Grumpity says "Only those who have a USD wallet [balance] need to accept the Tilia Terms of Service".

[Fionalein]

5 minutes ago, KT Kingsley said:

I seem to have learned something new (new to me, at least).

If Inara Pey's blog (here) correctly reports Grumpity Linden's statements at the Tilia town hall meeting, I and most other SL users won't even have to accept the Tillia Terms of service to continue using SL. Grumpity says "Only those who have a USD wallet [balance] need to accept the Tilia Terms of Service".

yeah but nitpickers since then realized 0.00 is "a balance" as well - which is a valid argument.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Fionalein

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, KT Kingsley said:

I seem to have learned something new (new to me, at least).

If Inara Pey's blog (here) correctly reports Grumpity Linden's statements at the Tilia town hall meeting, I and most other SL users won't even have to accept the Tillia Terms of service to continue using SL. Grumpity says "Only those who have a USD wallet [balance] need to accept the Tilia Terms of Service".

Inara is correct. That is a change in policy that was announced by LL yesterday.

So yay!

[DilliDallagio]

17 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

yeah but nitpickers since then realized 0.00 is "a balance" as well - which is a valid argument.

Technically, while zero balance is a valid number, hence a balance on a ledger sheet, Grumpity and Patch both stated, at various times during the meeting, that if one wanted to avoid the Tilia ToS and they were carrying a US$ balance, they would need to cash it out or convert it back into L$ prior to 1 Aug 2019. Both also stated that if someone logs into their web dashboard on or after 1 Aug 2019 and the Tilia ToS pops up, then they have to make the decision to accept or deny. However, if they do not see it then they do not have to worry about it (until such time they actually create the "wallet" by putting US$ into it).

Yes, the nitpickers will pick but it was pretty evident to me that a zero $ balance will not bring forth the ToS.