I Believe The Stink Of Adult Activities And Related Social and Political Issues Hold Back Second Life

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, JeromFranzic said:

I'm OK with some of Zal's takes. I feel like she's channeling some of my favorite classic comedians with strong opinions... George Carlin, Bill Hicks, Judy Tenuta... Yup. I often lose my coffee or beer at times while reading her commentary.

The trick is whether you still think it funny when it is directed at you

[Katherine Heartsong]

7 hours ago, JacksonBollock said:

Hi Katherine,

For the most part I (sort of) agree with what you're saying but it's important to clarify that recognizing and supporting such diversity does not inherently require the support of explicit adult environments - not as a fundamental necessity anyway.

I personally don't think that Second Life's success or failure is predicated on just how far it leans into its current reputation - such that it is.

Second Life "succeeds" as far as I can see,  based on its unique ability to provide a space where adults can freely express aspects of their identities that may not be as easily explored in other settings.

Does "free expression" really predominantly mean explicit "sexual expression"? I'm not sure.

It might be that by leaning more into creating and marketing itself as a truly segmented environment, Second Life could continue to serve its existing adult community without alienating potential new users who seek creative but non-adult interactions.

I just think that perhaps the whole "If SL took away the adult side of things, it'd fail." mantra, sells SL a little short.

So yeah, focussing on the explicit adult side of things might prolong Second Life's mere survival, but perhaps not its future growth and wellbeing.

Almost 30% of sims are adult-rated. And I maybe shouldn't have used sex specifically, let's say all adult things. That may not be immediate failure, but losing 30% of your revenue stream wouldn't feel good. I'm not selling SL short, but take away adulting in any sense, including expression, and that would be a hard blow to survive.

[Extrude Ragu]

8 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

Keep personal attacks out of it, please.

I feel many people might take the thread title as a personal attack, with the choice of language used. Particularly, using the word 'stink' to refer to activities residents do is likely to offend.

You want others to be civil, but do not appear to be doing so yourself.

[Extrude Ragu]

My opinion:

Every virtual world can survive without adult content.

But a virtual world cannot survive without having it's own niche that it is better at than everyone else.

At the height of the Facebook era, everyone and their mum was creating a new social media site that copied Facebook, but none of them were Facebook.

The only social media platforms that have taken off since Facebook became big are the ones who did something different.

It's naive to think you can just do what the other guys are doing and get their success. That's not how technology platforms work. Second Life has to offer something special. Today that is the great amount of personal freedom we have on Second Life and how the platform caters to a more mature audience than other platforms.

Second Life could of course pivot, and maybe even find success, if they found a unique new niche. But it would of course come at the cost at alienating the existing user base.

[Ceka Cianci]

I'm kind of glad SL isn't as huge  as those other places and on the radar as much..

As well as doesn't have 4 billion people.. We'd never get any shopping done.. hehehe

[Rowan Amore]

Wonder if the OP.is busy crafting condescending replies to all of our comments since he's yet to return.  Should make for an amusing morning read.

[Annie Nova]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Wonder if the OP.is busy crafting condescending replies to all of our comments since he's yet to return.  Should make for an amusing morning read.

Oooh Sunday comics! yay!

[Blush Bravin]

5 minutes ago, Annie Nova said:

Oooh Sunday comics! yay!

OMG .. this made me laugh way harder than it should have!!!! lmao

[Annie Nova]

Just now, Blush Bravin said:

OMG .. this made me laugh way harder than it should have!!!! lmao

*laughs* glad i could make you laugh!

[Sammy Huntsman]

18 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Wonder if the OP.is busy crafting condescending replies to all of our comments since he's yet to return.  Should make for an amusing morning read.

I mean it seems to me the OP made this post to cause a bit of chaos and ran. Lol 

[Persephone Emerald]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The trick is whether you still think it funny when it is directed at you

The trick is

1. Ignoring her, or

2. turning her comments back on her, and

3. understanding that her toxicity is a response to RL unhappiness.

[Jaylinbridges]

9 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

I've seen pictures from inside Walmart in the USA

And I've seen pictures of the Dutch wearing their wooden shoes while tilting at windmills.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The trick is

1. Ignoring her, or

You've apparently failed at that, is finding the block button too hard?

 

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

2. turning her comments back on her, and

Not so good at that either.

 

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

3. understanding that her toxicity is a response to RL unhappiness.

Thank you for proving you flunked out of evening classes in Amateur Shopping Mall Psychology 101, 5 mins into the first lesson.

 

[Chery Amore]

Yeah no sex, no romance, no innuendo and jokes around it, no sexy clothing options... big, big sl fail.  We can build ourselves here to look like full humans or fantasy humaniod types.  Humans are sexual beings.

This isn't some platform where we only have a top half or are some very specific cartoon that can't be tampered with. 

People that don't engage in anything sexual here for whatever reason they have are often still providing for others that come here for that in some way. Build houses only... people use them for doing the naughty. Script devices that might bring people together in a roleplay community... people meet and do the naughty because of them. Only create clothes... people find a way to use them to seduce visually or just end up taking them off at some point.

I really want to know what platform out there lets you create a full human that can look good, can be individualized and accessorized, and can also  be fully animated in a basically non limited way that doesn't bring out people that want romance or sex. I need a list please and thank you. 

 

 

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

 

3. understanding that her toxicity is a response to RL unhappiness.

I don't see that at all. You think because someone "tells it like it is without sugar coating" they must be unhappy in RL. haha. Or do you say that to make yourself feel better?

[Love Zhaoying]

If you smell a stink, have you tried washing your upper lip?

[Raspberry Crystal]

14 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

In the not-so-distant past, I could have skimmed through the Saturday Sale flyer on Seraphim even if my grandkids were in the room and my monitor visible. I can't shop in any event or check any event details in Seraphim when anyone happens to be in the room with me. The level of blatant sexually explicit clothing is just too much. Honestly, I'm tired of what has become the norm for what qualifies as fashion in SL these day. Okay .. go ahead throw rocks at me. I don't care. *puts on extra padding*

On top of annoying it gets really boring, to me at least, because of total overkill.

[Raspberry Crystal]

4 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The trick is

1. Ignoring her, or

2. turning her comments back on her, and

3. understanding that her toxicity is a response to RL unhappiness.

#1 is the charm, the others take too much time and effort.

[ValKalAstra]

17 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Hmm. Roblox is filled with scandal, positive and negative social activism, extremism, and drama. 

Mojang/Minecraft teamed up with WWF (World Wildlife Fund) to bring awareness to panda conservation. Minecraft content creators are also some of the most dramatic people on social media with a boatload of sordid controversies.

Blizzard/World of Warcraft held in-game charity events to support humanitarian aid in Ukraine and Doctors Without Borders. It's also filled with VERY adult roleplay and there are plenty of non-adult guilds that support all identities and orientations - same as Guild Wars 2 and other MMOs.

On and on and on.

If anyone thinks MMOs and virtual worlds and their users don't dabble in political/social issues or have their own share of controversies and mature/adult content, they're not paying much attention.

Second Life isn't much different than the rest.

You mostly made the post I wanted to make. I'll add some to it as well with a focus on adult stuff. Roblox is embroiled in child labour accusations and have said they want to implement a dating service. Minecraft has got genuine adult mods about taming monster girls.

Every single mmo has got ERP Hotspots. Player housing in FF14 is famous for hosting big strip club and brothel events. The community is legendary for it's thirst. Vrchat is... Vrchat. They've got an entire secondary adult market the devs try to play whackamole with.

I've never played wow but even I know of Goldshire.

None of these cater to Adult content. Some of these games actively target children as a kids kind of game. Some actively try to fight adult content.

It's still there. People gonna people.

Also the idea of this untapped market of people waiting to log into second life to create and play games and listen to music is funny. I'm a gamer. You know what I do when I want to play? I ask my squad on discord. If I want a boardgame, I grab tabletop simulator.

Laggy, resource hungry second life ain't gonna take over the role of something like discord.

[Raspberry Crystal]

@ValKalAstra I can't help thinking that Discord and Second Life can't easily be compared, they do very different things, unless a person only uses second life as a chat room? In that case, you could say that discord would win every time.
If someone wants to plot out a virtual sailing route, and take five hours to complete the journey by themselves, you might wonder how to recreate that experience within discord.
Of course, people use both platforms at the same time, so there isn't really an 'either / or '.

To refer back to the original post, I have noticed that some people, when planning to emigrate to another country, will become extremely negative about the one they are about to leave. It reminds of teenage issues, getting some separation from the parents is an anxious business. So maybe leaving second life for another online world is similar? "I hatez you all because you stinx," could be a variation on that?

 

[ValKalAstra]

32 minutes ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

@ValKalAstra I can't help thinking that Discord and Second Life can't easily be compared, they do very different things, unless a person only uses second life as a chat room? In that case, you could say that discord would win every time.
If someone wants to plot out a virtual sailing route, and take five hours to complete the journey by themselves, you might wonder how to recreate that experience within discord.

Oh, I would agree. They're not entirely comparable but in ways, without the customization or adult content, they do ultimately serve a similar purpose for me at least. If I want to sail, I go play something like Sailaway and get realtime weather, in depth water simulations and I get to plan a route too, without bumping into banlines, offline sims or randomly falling off a boat because the sim crossing was feeling particularly angry that day.

If I want space exploration, I go for Star Citizen or Space Engineers and get tactile simulation of systems that would break the script limits of Second Life. If I want to drive, I head fo Forza Horizon or Testdrive and just go for hours, without Sims only loading by the time I'm already through.

The friends and social interactions for that, I get via Discord, using it as a hub and launching pad for these activities. The unique edge that Second Life has got for meis the user customization and the presence it lends. I don't just go sailing, I go sailing looking like I want to look. I don't head into space, I do so as a representation of myself. To remove adult content would also mean to remove a big chunk of that customization because let's face it, the gaming industry is scared to death of cleavage or feminine expression in general.

So - take away my avenue to express myself and you're taking away my raison d'être for SL. At that point it's a hub connecting mediocre activities, each of which would be better served by using Discord as a hub while launching into specialised products.

That's the line of thinking I had. Obviously Discord ain't SL but without the adult side of things, to me it would be a laggy 3d chat app. The adult side and the wide customization and presence it brings is the one leg up that SL has got for me. I can fly, drive, build and explore better in any number of those evil games. I can't get the sense of presence that SL offers me but for that it needs the fashion and all that, most of which is rather a lot more risque then what you see in games.

[Raspberry Crystal]

Thank you @ValKalAstra that was a really good explanation of what you meant. Maybe a sideways connection, but everytime I think of buying No Man's Sky I look at some youtube videos and baulk at the idea of having to wear the space-suit outfit and not feel like me.

[JacksonBollock]

10 hours ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

I don't see that at all. You think because someone "tells it like it is without sugar coating" they must be unhappy in RL. haha. Or do you say that to make yourself feel better?

Ok, since I'm one of the lucky few getting the rough end of @Zalificent Corvinus 's tongue (so to speak  ) I am going on record as agreeing with you here Kathlen.

Look, everyone's allowed their opinion, and I'm really not so precious that I can't have mine called out and roundly abused - it's what makes life interesting and keeps even us "pseudo intellectuals" honest.

On that note, Zalificent's use of that term has made me look at myself more closely, particularly around my style of communicating. Basically I'm used to communicating in a certain way for work, and here I guess I sought to dilute it a little - which in itself is pretty patronising and didn't work very well in any case.

Without (hopefully) being too boastful, as I sit here now I look up and see 4 hard won (for me anyway) bits of paper hanging on the wall. 2 are advanced degrees, one a PhD,  from the two Universities that most people will think of when they think of English Universities.

So I guess, in my defence, all I can say is that along the way I've tried really hard to actually learn some stuff as well.

As for the rest, and speaking directly to @Zalificent Corvinus now, I'd just say keep doing what you're doing. Yours is an important voice here, albeit your style is somewhat 'interesting' and sadly might obscure your message for a few.

All the Best,
Jackson

 

Edited May 12 by JacksonBollock
misspelled Zalificent!

[Lord Pole]

Second Life is very much like real life - adults do adult things. Just as in real life when these adults are not doing adult things they can do a lot of other things.

It is not a matter of one or the other but instead a healthy combination of both showing respect for others by not stepping over the social and personal boundaries that people expect to have.

People have the ability to remove all adult related content and activities from their own second life by limiting where they can go and what they can see on the marketplace. They do not have the right to limit what others (who may live in more liberal/enlightened societies) do with their second life though.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

4 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

I've never played wow but even I know of Goldshire.

I laughed so hard at this. It is rather legendary, isn't it? What you may not know is we also had a large portion of the population many years ago who found it absolutely hilarious to create female Night Elves, strip off their clothes (don't worry, they had modesty layers!), and yeet them off the tallest tree in their starting area, leaving piles and piles of dead bodies around for the newbies to log into. Real wholesome content. 

 

4 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

Also the idea of this untapped market of people waiting to log into second life to create and play games and listen to music is funny. I'm a gamer. You know what I do when I want to play? I ask my squad on discord. If I want a boardgame, I grab tabletop simulator.

Absolute same and I agree. Every single thing I can do in Second Life is better done elsewhere (for efficiency's sake, if nothing else). In my case, the only thing SL does better than everything else on the market is virtual photography. Combined with our avatar customization, there's really nothing like it. Unfortunately, the number of people who are going to come to Second Life just to create avatars and photograph them is low. If SL were to rid itself of adult content entirely (which we know is impossible as nowhere's been able to do that), it would need to get itself up to date and start competing with everything else on the market on the gaming side, combat, roleplay, life simulation, building/design, social/group features, or virtual events. It'll need another hook to replace it, and good luck with that.