I Believe The Stink Of Adult Activities And Related Social and Political Issues Hold Back Second Life

[CaerolleClaudel]

OK, I have been following this thread and have what seems to be a very ignorant question.

In the past I tried some of the other sites that seemed similar to SL because I find SL to be counterintuitive and tedious and just in general painful to do almost everything. Way clunky. Overall I am not at all a fan the 'mechanics' in SL, and never have been. Pretty much all the annoyances I had 17 years ago are still here even now.

None of them came anywhere close to what I could do in SL overall. Some had better looking avis or houses or such, but I didn't really have a lot of choice in how any of it looked. Worse, I never found a place with enough people around to have the activities in which I was and am interested. Not sex or even romance, clubs with music I liked and people to talk with. I even tried OpenSim a few times over the years, and while I guess it might have been good for groups of people leaving SL, I found it to be awful as an individual user (last time was long ago, perhaps it is better now, I dunno).

So, my ignorant question is, given that so many people have posted over and over that anything that SL does, esp if you leave out sex as a requirement, other places do far better, I would like to know the following:

Can you guys name me a place that 1) enables me to make a gorgeous avi (I laughed at the '3+' hour thing, I just upgraded my head and updated my body and I spent probably at least 18 hours, more likely 24 hours, on getting the shape the way I wanted it; that does not include tracking down and trying lots of new skins and make-up that were BOM); 2) enables me to find clothes, hair, shoes, and make-up that I like; and 3) has clubs where I can go dance, listen to music I like, and talk to people at least to some degree (one of the things I have hated about SL for the last 10+ years is that no one seems to talk in chat in clubs anymore); and 4) has a lot of options for a private place to go?

I am not being sarcastic or trying to troll or challenge people. If there really is some better place to do the things I do in SL I would like hear about it. Thx.

[Tarquin Evermore]

13 minutes ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

As a pagan that makes me sad.  The beauty of SL is doing anything we want.

Same! I am not Pagan. More into Buddhism myself. I love the witchy things! Second Life is all about self expression. It should stay that way (within legal boundaries of course.)

[Arielle Popstar]

18 minutes ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

As a pagan that makes me sad.  The beauty of SL is doing anything we want.

Then one should support that in its entirety and not say: this is ok and this, this, this, but not this!

[Tarquin Evermore]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Then one should support that in its entirety and not say: this is ok and this, this, this, but not this!

The "Not this" things  should only pertain to things that hurt innocent people, or animals. 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Tarquin Evermore said:

The "Not this" things  should only pertain to things that hurt innocent people, or animals. 

That's a can of worm right there.

[Tarquin Evermore]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

That's a can of worm right there.

How so?

[Love Zhaoying]

25 minutes ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

As a pagan that makes me sad.  The beauty of SL is doing anything we want.

Scary!

[diamond Marchant]

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

Some types of adult RP, some  skanky clothes, human child avatars, prim babies,  a few Linden Home themes, charities.... don't mind them but they not why I am here and I would be just fine without them.

 

52 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

No, you really wouldn't.

If changes to SL would indirectly effect the things that I like, then you are correct, I really wouldn't like it. My intent was simply to state a preference. A hypothetical.... say you like a particular item at a restaurant and one day, you hear they have changed up the menu. You go there and find your item is still present. You trust that the people running the restaurant changed the menu for a reason (e.g. their supplier of day old sushi was arrested) and you are happy you can continue to eat there.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Tarquin Evermore said:

How so?

Not the theme of the topic so I don't want to go there but it is questionable who really is innocent.

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Then one should support that in its entirety and not say: this is ok and this, this, this, but not this!

The issues being address by the new rules are illegal even as cartoons.  Being a pagan or a goth or what have you...not illegal.  Cartoon depictions of a lot of abhorrent things are...not illegal.

If or when anything becomes illegal in virtual/cartoon form, I'm sure LL.will.put a ban on that, too.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

14 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Can you guys name me a place that 1) enables me to make a gorgeous avi (I laughed at the '3+' hour thing, I just upgraded my head and updated my body and I spent probably at least 18 hours, more likely 24 hours, on getting the shape the way I wanted it; that does not include tracking down and trying lots of new skins and make-up that were BOM); 2) enables me to find clothes, hair, shoes, and make-up that I like; and 3) has clubs where I can go dance, listen to music I like, and talk to people at least to some degree (one of the things I have hated about SL for the last 10+ years is that no one seems to talk in chat in clubs anymore); and 4) has a lot of options for a private place to go?

Second Life is your best bet for those particular activities - especially the level of avatar customization we have, if you're already used to our system and how it works here. You can go customization crazy in The Sims 4, too, with custom content. Other games have very, very good customization, but that's not all you'd be doing - they're usually RPGs, so you'd be leveling and fighting with whatever you created. True privacy would be either singleplayer games or renting out a private server and only inviting your friends along. Clubbing - not sure. Maybe VRChat.

When most people say other places do X better, they're mostly talking about activities like small or large-scale combat, roleplaying, life simulation, farming, card/table/dice games, building, racing and driving/flying vehicles, exploration, and large-scale socializing (like guilds with hundreds to thousands of people all being able to chat together without group chat dying a sad death - either using in-game group features or Discord).

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The issues being address by the new rules are illegal even as cartoons.  Being a pagan or a goth or what have you...not illegal.  Cartoon depictions of a lot of abhorrent things are...not illegal.

If or when anything becomes illegal in virtual/cartoon form, I'm sure LL.will.put a ban on that, too.

The thread 

Shows there is a fairly wide range of interpretations of what constitutes an underage avatar. Which one is illegal?

Rhetorical question

 

[CaerolleClaudel]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Second Life is your best bet for those particular activities - especially the level of avatar customization we have, if you're already used to our system and how it works here. You can go customization crazy in The Sims 4, too, with custom content. Other games have very, very good customization, but that's not all you'd be doing - they're usually RPGs, so you'd be leveling and fighting with whatever you created. True privacy would be either singleplayer games or renting out a private server and only inviting your friends along. Clubbing - not sure. Maybe VRChat.

When most people say other places do X better, they're mostly talking about activities like small or large-scale combat, roleplaying, life simulation, farming, card/table/dice games, building, racing and driving/flying vehicles, exploration, and large-scale socializing (like guilds with hundreds to thousands of people all being able to chat together without group chat dying a sad death - either using in-game group features or Discord).

Thx! I am interested to see what some of the people who have been saying that other places are better have to say, though.

Now if only LL would implement some of the customization other things have, or at least make customization less painful here. Even just getting the camera where I want it and not having the view change drastically as I try to look at all sides of my avi would be a big help, or not completely screwing up the camera when I switch from one tab of Edit Shape to another. Or throwing it totally the wrong place when I sit on something, instead of staying the same angle relative to the thing I am sitting on and me having to screw around with getting it back. I think I sometimes spend half time in SL just fiddling with the *****ing camera.

[Arielle Popstar]

31 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

OK, I have been following this thread and have what seems to be a very ignorant question.

In the past I tried some of the other sites that seemed similar to SL because I find SL to be counterintuitive and tedious and just in general painful to do almost everything. Way clunky. Overall I am not at all a fan the 'mechanics' in SL, and never have been. Pretty much all the annoyances I had 17 years ago are still here even now.

None of them came anywhere close to what I could do in SL overall. Some had better looking avis or houses or such, but I didn't really have a lot of choice in how any of it looked. Worse, I never found a place with enough people around to have the activities in which I was and am interested. Not sex or even romance, clubs with music I liked and people to talk with. I even tried OpenSim a few times over the years, and while I guess it might have been good for groups of people leaving SL, I found it to be awful as an individual user (last time was long ago, perhaps it is better now, I dunno).

So, my ignorant question is, given that so many people have posted over and over that anything that SL does, esp if you leave out sex as a requirement, other places do far better, I would like to know the following:

Can you guys name me a place that 1) enables me to make a gorgeous avi (I laughed at the '3+' hour thing, I just upgraded my head and updated my body and I spent probably at least 18 hours, more likely 24 hours, on getting the shape the way I wanted it; that does not include tracking down and trying lots of new skins and make-up that were BOM); 2) enables me to find clothes, hair, shoes, and make-up that I like; and 3) has clubs where I can go dance, listen to music I like, and talk to people at least to some degree (one of the things I have hated about SL for the last 10+ years is that no one seems to talk in chat in clubs anymore); and 4) has a lot of options for a private place to go?

I am not being sarcastic or trying to troll or challenge people. If there really is some better place to do the things I do in SL I would like hear about it. Thx.

Other SL style grids have many of the activities you list in a way that you are already familiar with, Imvu has the shopping experience as well as many others too. Looking like there is a number of choices out there. It can take a bit to become familiar enough with other avatars from different platforms before you  see their attractiveness though.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Thx! I am interested to see what some of the people who have been saying that other places are better have to say, though.

Oh no worries! I'm one of them, which is why I responded. SL is mostly just a shopping/avatar customization and photography simulator for me. For everything else I like to do, I go elsewhere.

Totally hear you about the camera, though! How many times have I sneezed and hit something by mistake and messed up my perfect shot, LOL.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Totally hear you about the camera, though! How many times have I sneezed and hit something by mistake and messed up my perfect shot, LOL.

If you have a 5 button mouse or get one you can remap the buttons with mouse manager and set the one to ALT and the other to LConT+Menu so that you can with the mouse cam around and the other move the Cam up and down or left and right. I find it really convenient.

[Rowan Amore]

19 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The thread 

Shows there is a fairly wide range of interpretations of what constitutes an underage avatar. Which one is illegal?

Rhetorical question

 

Well yeah.  That's what I'm saying.  Dragging in what ifs about Goths and pagans and squirrels is not what's at issue.

Those are all ok.  Minors in adult activity is not.  One can't support something in it's entirety if one of those things is illegal.  

Each one of us will have to make our own choices in how we look.  Others will make their choice as to whether that look is too young.  That's just how it is.  I'm not concerned at all.  If someone reports me for looking to young, I'll adjust if LL agrees.  Will I be concerned they're going to find anything that might hint at AP?  Not in the least.  In the end, it probably won't be anyone's look that puts the nail in the coffin but their words.

[CaerolleClaudel]

16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Other SL style grids have many of the activities you list in a way that you are already familiar with, Imvu has the shopping experience as well as many others too. Looking like there is a number of choices out there. It can take a bit to become familiar enough with other avatars from different platforms before you  see their attractiveness though.

It has been a while (years likely) since I tried Imvu, but I was not impressed. IIRC, I could not really find activities there. Also IIRC, the selection of clothes as not that good. Perhaps that has all improved now, at least taking another look at that site (I keep trying to avoid the word 'game,' because I do not see SL as a game ugh).

Thx, I will look into it!!

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Well yeah.  That's what I'm saying.  Dragging in what ifs about Goths and pagans and squirrels is not what's at issue.

Those are all ok.  Minors in adult activity is not.  One can't support something in it's entirety if one of those things is illegal.  

Each one of us will have to make our own choices in how we look.  Others will make their choice as to whether that look is too young.  That's just how it is.  I'm not concerned at all.  If someone reports me for looking to young, I'll adjust if LL agrees.  Will I be concerned they're going to find anything that might hint at AP?  Not in the least.  In the end, it probably won't be anyone's look that puts the nail in the coffin but their words.

It's a can of worms really that the Lab opened up at the last meeting.

  Quote

[14:42] Tommy Linden: For those asking about clarification on age, regardless of your gender, whether or not you are a furry, or participating in the anime community, if you are presenting as under the age of 18, that is required to follow our policy regarding child avatars.

[CaerolleClaudel]

10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

If you have a 5 button mouse or get one you can remap the buttons with mouse manager and set the one to ALT and the other to LConT+Menu so that you can with the mouse cam around and the other move the Cam up and down or left and right. I find it really convenient.

Ah, thanks. The ergo mouse I use has that many, I think. I just wish the camera did not jump around so that I have to readjust everything, which quite often involves turning the view 180°, camming sideways to get the camera closer to what I want to see (almost always when I shop), and then turning the camera angle back to face what I want to look at. Why does this all have to be so clunky, trying to just get the camera to focus on what you want?

Anyhow, details of mechanics is OT on this thread, sorry. Just version 10 million of my rants about how SL works.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

14 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

If you have a 5 button mouse or get one you can remap the buttons with mouse manager and set the one to ALT and the other to LConT+Menu so that you can with the mouse cam around and the other move the Cam up and down or left and right. I find it really convenient.

That's a good idea. I could set up a new profile for SL. My default mouse config just has copy/paste on my buttons because I'm lazy like that. 😂

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

It has been a while (years likely) since I tried Imvu, but I was not impressed. IIRC, I could not really find activities there. Also IIRC, the selection of clothes as not that good. Perhaps that has all improved now, at least taking another look at that site (I keep trying to avoid the word 'game,' because I do not see SL as a game ugh).

Thx, I will look into it!!

Well I was there before SL and since they had mesh a few years before SL did, I found their avatars were better until about 2015 when SL took over.. The activities are a bit different and relegated to a maximum of 10 but if you buy a room, you automatically can enter it with up to 10 friends. You don't need to buy land to put it on.

[CaerolleClaudel]

27 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well I was there before SL and since they had mesh a few years before SL did, I found their avatars were better until about 2015 when SL took over.. The activities are a bit different and relegated to a maximum of 10 but if you buy a room, you automatically can enter it with up to 10 friends. You don't need to buy land to put it on.

I set up an account and bought a couple things. Avatar quality seems nowhere close to SL, or most clothes either. Lots of pixelization, lots of really odd angles and shapes (the inside of the elbows wow). AFAIKT, you cannot actually modify your avatar with sliders like in SL, you have to buy avatars and heads and such with set features. Hair is horrible.

They give you essentially zero instruction when you join; I found a How To Set Up Your Avatar page, and wow, not impressed. I went to a chat room, which AFAIKT is like the equivalent of going to a location in SL and could not even figure out how to make my avi move. I cannot even see myself; if I zoom in or out or spin the camera, I just see other people. I have no idea if it is moving my avi or just my camera. I went to a few rooms and no one was moving. It looks like you cannot walk about and explore like in SL.

OK, I'm a newb, and I can't begin to count all the hours I have spent across 17 years learning how to use SL to a tolerable degree, but doing a few websearchs seems to indicate that I am not missing much. I know how-to-use IMVU is OT for this thread (although the 'other things are way better than SL except with no sex take,' and oh, btw, I saw strip rooms in the Chat list and some other rooms that appeared to be adult), but if someone can disabuse me of this conclusion I would be happy find out what I am doing wrong.

Honestly, I cannot see how this can even come within a million miles of SL other than being really simple because you can't really control much.

[Paul Hexem]

7 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

When I say "a lack of shopping in SL would be a deal breaker for me", believe it. It is irrelevant whether or not other "games" have better shopping. If LL pulled the plug on shopping (probability close to zero) I would leave. Point is, I care about shopping and SL shopping is sufficient. Some types of adult RP, some  skanky clothes, human child avatars, prim babies,  a few Linden Home themes, charities.... don't mind them but they not why I am here and I would be just fine without them.

There's nothing wrong with that. I have things I do too that have better methods/options. I'm just recognizing that objectively most people will choose something better.

 

6 hours ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I am not being sarcastic or trying to troll or challenge people. If there really is some better place to do the things I do in SL I would like hear about it. Thx.

Multiplayer with privacy is sort of an oxymoron, typically. Most games would consider the concept ridiculous.

SL is unique in having that, I suspect largely in part due to the inclusion of adult activities.

[CaerolleClaudel]

33 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Multiplayer with privacy is sort of an oxymoron, typically. Most games would consider the concept ridiculous.

SL is unique in having that, I suspect largely in part due to the inclusion of adult activities.

Sorry, I did not phrase that well. What I meant was a place where I can rez, change clothes, try on clothes, all that. I know there is pretty much no privacy anywhere, esp online. 

I guess to just have a space of my own to customize, too. In the past I had houses and spent a lot of time and money decorating them. The last couple times in SL I have just used skyboxes, but even with those I get the multiscene ones so I don’t have to look at the same thing all the time. 

In my last time in SL, unlike all the previous times, I *did* have a lot of sex in my ‘place of abode.’ I did not in the least expect absolute privacy for that, mostly just did not want other people about nor to have anyone complaining about what I was doing.

The thing is, I did not come into SL last time for the sex, I just happened to meet someone and got involved with them. And for sure I will not let things go there this time. So then or now, if there was a place that gave me the four things I listed with less frustration and annoyance than SL but had no sex I would at least try it. I just need one of the people who seem to be saying that there are such places to name me a couple.

Edited May 13 by CaerolleClaudel