I Believe The Stink Of Adult Activities And Related Social and Political Issues Hold Back Second Life

[Codex Alpha]

Second Life doesn't need adult content to succeed, and it may actually be what keeps it from growing into what it could be.

Take a look around you. Millions and millions of users are on platforms enjoying similar activities to Second Life, from creating User-Generated Content, making games, making worlds, and even cashing out money from making all of it. All without the stink and complications and scandals that come from trying to have Adult content and activities overlap with more non-slex related activities.

Millions of other users are spread out on a variety of platforms from VR to gaming and the line between 'game' and (sick of this word) "metaverse" is blurring.

Most of this activity and joy are on platforms that have no Adult content, no comment, promotion, agenda or public discussion of social issues like politics, gender, sexual preferences, etc and yet they are growing every day.

The overwhelming market available out there looks at SL as an unsafe place for children, a 'dirty' place riddled with pornographic actions, slex scandals and issues, and may contribute to why potential users and creators of any age don't sign up.

I am the last of 25 of my personal network that all had a presence on SL at one time or another - how many more did they have in their networks that I am unaware of?

The SL of today, and how LL presents itself on it's front pages, forums and marketing material are much different than when I joined up years ago, and the world has changed as well.

Perhaps it's time that Linden Lab considered a new and fresh approach - or perhaps a re-alignment of what it promotes and advertises - and starts trying to get a market share of the vast millions of users and creators waiting to graduate from and/or explore new platforms like SL.

Don't make me point to SL's average concurrent numbers to bring back the reality that their market share is literally miniscule compared to what it could be.

----

Responders: This is my opinion only.

Please respond to the main point, whether you believe SL would succeed or fail over adult content, and more importantly WHY you believe it so...
Also consider too, that on LL's failed Sansar, the small amount of users there also claimed that if Adult content was allowed (and social issues put at the forefront) - that it would succeed as well. Were they right?

Keep personal attacks out of it, please.

Edited May 11 by Codex Alpha
Edited for clarity

[LittleMe Jewell]

FFS

Edited May 11 by LittleMe Jewell

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

FFS

[Katherine Heartsong]

They'd fail without the ability of adults to be adults.

If it's only a choice between antiseptic pearl-clutching platforms where people deny that a wide spectrum of human sexuality exists, and SL that allows for the widest range of expressions, genders, sexuality, being who you want to be ... then this place wins every time.

If SL took away the adult side of things, it'd fail.

[Rowan Amore]

[Sid Nagy]

29 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Second Life doesn't need adult content to succeed,

Monitor the sales on the homepage of the marketplace for about half an hour (Adult settings included of course) and you will know that simply isn't true.
Sex might not be the main part of being in Second Life for most, and not at all for some (like me personally), but it is an essential part for a vast majority of users. No doubt about that.

Edited May 11 by Sid Nagy

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Monitor the sales on the homepage of the marketplace for about half an hour (Adult settings included of course) and you will know that simply isn't true.
Sex might not be the main part of being in Second Life for most, and not at all for some (like me personally), but it is an essential part for a vast majority of users. No doubt about that.

I don't engage in adult activity anymore although I still go to mostly adult regions.   I live in one.  It's the ability to do adult things, not necessarily doing them, that will be what some people like about SL.  No, not everyone is engaging in it 24/7 but knowing it's always a possibility IF you should choose to, is appealing. 

Grid survey would seem to suggest the same.  LL would sure lose a lot of money if everything were G rated.  Adult and Moderate (adult activity is allowed on Moderate/Linden Homes) seems to be the bulk of all land available in SL.

[Quistess Alpha]

You can't consider SL "succeeding" or "failing" in a vacuum, you have to consider the 'competition', and as much as I hate to say it, SL cannot and probably will never be able to stand head to head against them on their strengths (ease of use, performance, graphics, etc.) due to all of SL's baggage it needs to continue being backwards compatible with. SL's acceptance of adult content, while not strictly unique, does set it apart from many major 'competitors'. without it, you'd really have to wonder why anyone would choose to enter SL over, say, roblox.

[Theresa Tennyson]

51 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

I am the last of 25 of my personal network that all had a presence on SL at one time or another - how many more did they have in their networks that I am unaware of?

Are you saying getting rid of adult content would attract more users like you or not like you? Because it makes a significant difference.

[Sid Nagy]

5 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

you'd really have to wonder why anyone would choose to enter SL over, say, roblox.

Not everybody loves Playmobil and Lego?

 

Edited May 11 by Sid Nagy
Hey it is Saturday: my edit hobby day. 🍺

[JeromFranzic]

OP, I'm sorry, but you are like the blind leading the blind. Do you even attempt to actively engage outside of your typical SL social circle? Something tells me you don't seem to do that. 

I engage with both older and younger users in SL (when I'm not in Open Sim... which has even more of the content you personally detest, but still...). Most of the people I talk to aren't having sex or BDSM... a lot of them usually spill stuff about their RL lives, or tell me about this thing I should try building, or even *gasp* talk about politics and religion... lots of exciting stuff that has nothing to do with X rated games. 

All of that said, I agree with Rowan. It's hard to see SL without the ability to do adult things. That's something that attracted me to coming in world... I resisted for years because I thought it was nothing but $3x. Boy, was I wrong! That also said, I do wish there were better safeguards in admitting younger users into SL. Some of that has been addressed recently, but there will never be a clear cut answer to this issue, it has to be constantly looked at.

IDK man... maybe just get along with your fellow SLers because there really is very little else like it IMHO on the internet... well, maybe Open Sim, thanks to the code fork that happened in 2008! Yay!

[Sid Nagy]

2 minutes ago, JeromFranzic said:

well, maybe Open Sim, thanks to the code fork that happened in 2008! Yay!

But sadly one needs a license to steal there from other grids and creators to get around.

[gwynchisholm]

Hold back SL from what?

Nobody plays this. SL is in its own little bubble, people who are going to play SL will play SL, people who won’t, won’t.

There are 10 times more people playing a single big name game on Roblox on off hours, than there are playing across all of SL at peak hours. Consider that scale. Look at this

That’s the current most populated game on the platform. That is 760,000 people playing. And that is one game, the second one is at 710k as well and scales downward. And that’s just front page titles, there’s an endless list of smaller games that get a consistent few hundred or few thousand users. The platform as a whole is usually hovering around 10-12 million active users at any time.

SL is not that. And it will not be that. That’s not what it’s trying to be. There is no large scale growth to consider, because in the grand scheme of social world experiences as a whole, SL is a small microcosm of its own creation. SL should be doing stuff that’s good for what’s here.

Removing adult content isn’t going to suddenly make SL competitive with Roblox, or really any virtual world platform. They all do their own thing and have audiences related to their strengths.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

But sadly one needs a license to steal there from other grids and creators to get around.

Meh increasing amount of homegrown content there and features SL can only dream about. That and the freedom of course to run one's own grid.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Codex Alpha said:

Responders: This is my opinion only.

Please respond to the main point, whether you believe SL would succeed or fail over adult content, and more importantly WHY you believe it so...
Also consider too, that on LL's failed Sansar, the small amount of users there also claimed that if Adult content was allowed (and social issues put at the forefront) - that it would succeed as well. Were they right?

It would fail without the adult content and ability. Like Rowan already pointed out, it is about having the choice, even if one does not partake. This recent change for example to the 17 and under look will already have a negative impact in the coming months. How much I don't know but it will impact SL sales and concurrency negatively in my opinion.

[Lexxi Gynoid]

"I believe the stink of adult activities and related social and political issues hold back second life" - No.

If I didn't already know that SL has gone through several Forums, I'd think people were reacting to a post from 2007.

For years LL has attempted to 'expand' to capture things like Corporations, Education related peeps, random 'normal' people. It's one of the main reasons there is a separate adult continent. 

 

[JacksonBollock]

55 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

They'd fail without the ability of adults to be adults.

If it's only a choice between antiseptic pearl-clutching platforms where people deny that a wide spectrum of human sexuality exists, and SL that allows for the widest range of expressions, genders, sexuality, being who you want to be ... then this place wins every time.

If SL took away the adult side of things, it'd fail.

Hi Katherine,

For the most part I (sort of) agree with what you're saying but it's important to clarify that recognizing and supporting such diversity does not inherently require the support of explicit adult environments - not as a fundamental necessity anyway.

I personally don't think that Second Life's success or failure is predicated on just how far it leans into its current reputation - such that it is.

Second Life "succeeds" as far as I can see,  based on its unique ability to provide a space where adults can freely express aspects of their identities that may not be as easily explored in other settings.

Does "free expression" really predominantly mean explicit "sexual expression"? I'm not sure.

It might be that by leaning more into creating and marketing itself as a truly segmented environment, Second Life could continue to serve its existing adult community without alienating potential new users who seek creative but non-adult interactions.

I just think that perhaps the whole "If SL took away the adult side of things, it'd fail." mantra, sells SL a little short.

So yeah, focussing on the explicit adult side of things might prolong Second Life's mere survival, but perhaps not its future growth and wellbeing.

Edited May 11 by JacksonBollock

[Sadvhi]

I've spent thousands of dollars in Second Life over the years, the majority of that money going towards rent, farming, breedables, prim/animesh babies, architecture, and landscaping.

[Danielle Atheria]

I believe SL is as popular as it is because of Adult themed sims…case in point look at Relay for Life (American Cancer Society) biggest contributor to SL is the adult network (can’t remember the name im not in their group) last year and this year as well. Not sure about before but it shows to me anyway what most in SL are doing 

Edited May 11 by Danielle Atheria

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Codex Alpha said:

Please respond to the main point, whether you believe SL would succeed or fail over adult content, and more importantly WHY you believe it so...
Also consider too, that on LL's failed Sansar, the small amount of users there also claimed that if Adult content was allowed (and social issues put at the forefront) - that it would succeed as well. Were they right?

Short answer:

Yes.

No.

Because reasons!

No.

Yes.

Longer answer: My understanding is, that "Alphas" usually insist on adult activities which suit their own definitions of acceptability. I would blame them, as they are most likely complaining about not getting the Second Life they want, while in actuality are proponents of activities they deem acceptable (that at the same everyone else can tell are adult activities).

Explained more simply: "bossy types" ("Alphas") are the problem by insisting on how Second Life should be, while at the same being blind to the fact that their own demands are a form of "adult activity" (kink). Their adult kink of being "bossy" is obvious and clear for everyone else to see.

[Arielle Popstar]

11 minutes ago, JacksonBollock said:

It might be that by leaning more into creating and marketing itself as a truly segmented environment, Second Life could continue to serve its existing adult community without alienating potential new users who seek creative but non-adult interactions.

I just think that perhaps the whole "If SL took away the adult side of things, it'd fail." mantra, sells SL a little short.

So yeah, focussing on the explicit adult side of things might prolong Second Life's mere survival, but perhaps not its future growth and wellbeing.

The way I see the issue is that because LL did not actively enhance the inworld building tools, combined with a too oft used No-Mod selection on the content by creators, SL residents are in many ways relegated to a buy and wear mentality that leaves little choice for other activities. When I first came to SL I spent hours fiddling with items when I had that ability. That is no longer possible in SL for most content and I get bored and either indulge in adult activities or go to another platform that has the land i can afford to build on and has more modification possibilities on content I have. Even the social aspect inworld is drastically reduced here nowadays compared to in past.

[Extrude Ragu]

My guy

Just take a look at the world map. Every private sim you see marked adult, think to yourself 200USD/mo. No really. Spend a minute or two just scrolling around.

 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Codex Alpha said:

Second Life doesn't need adult content to succeed, and it may actually be what keeps it from growing into what it could be.

Take a look around you. Millions and millions of users are on platforms enjoying similar activities to Second Life, from creating User-Generated Content, making games, making worlds, and even cashing out money from making all of it. All without the stink and complications and scandals that come from trying to have Adult content and activities overlap with more non-slex related activities.

Millions of other users are spread out on a variety of platforms from VR to gaming and the line between 'game' and (sick of this word) "metaverse" is blurring.

Most of this activity and joy are on platforms that have no Adult content, no comment, promotion, agenda or public discussion of social issues like politics, gender, sexual preferences, etc and yet they are growing every day.

The overwhelming market available out there looks at SL as an unsafe place for children, a 'dirty' place riddled with pornographic actions, slex scandals and issues, and may contribute to why potential users and creators of any age don't sign up.

I am the last of 25 of my personal network that all had a presence on SL at one time or another - how many more did they have in their networks that I am unaware of?

The SL of today, and how LL presents itself on it's front pages, forums and marketing material are much different than when I joined up years ago, and the world has changed as well.

Perhaps it's time that Linden Lab considered a new and fresh approach - or perhaps a re-alignment of what it promotes and advertises - and starts trying to get a market share of the vast millions of users and creators waiting to graduate from and/or explore new platforms like SL.

Don't make me point to SL's average concurrent numbers to bring back the reality that their market share is literally miniscule compared to what it could be.

----

Responders: This is my opinion only.

Please respond to the main point, whether you believe SL would succeed or fail over adult content, and more importantly WHY you believe it so...
Also consider too, that on LL's failed Sansar, the small amount of users there also claimed that if Adult content was allowed (and social issues put at the forefront) - that it would succeed as well. Were they right?

Sansar failed because LL never intended to create any content. It was a platform for OTHERS to create content, unless of course they wanted to create sexual content, then it wasforbidden

Sansar was doomed from day one.

As for a fresh new no sex SL, the whole point is that SL is an entire virtual world that you can do anything you want in.. anything at all, except be inappropriate with kids, and have political ads on networked advertising. 😂

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, JeromFranzic said:

OP, I'm sorry, but you are like the blind leading the blind. Do you even attempt to actively engage outside of your typical SL social circle? Something tells me you don't seem to do that. 

I engage with both older and younger users in SL (when I'm not in Open Sim... which has even more of the content you personally detest, but still...). Most of the people I talk to aren't having sex or BDSM... a lot of them usually spill stuff about their RL lives, or tell me about this thing I should try building, or even *gasp* talk about politics and religion... lots of exciting stuff that has nothing to do with X rated games. 

All of that said, I agree with Rowan. It's hard to see SL without the ability to do adult things. That's something that attracted me to coming in world... I resisted for years because I thought it was nothing but $3x. Boy, was I wrong! That also said, I do wish there were better safeguards in admitting younger users into SL. Some of that has been addressed recently, but there will never be a clear cut answer to this issue, it has to be constantly looked at.

IDK man... maybe just get along with your fellow SLers because there really is very little else like it IMHO on the internet... well, maybe Open Sim, thanks to the code fork that happened in 2008! Yay!

You know people that talk politics and religion? Can you invite me to your circle? 😁

[Bree Giffen]

A bird in the hand (residents who are in SL because adult activity is available) is worth two in the bush (potential residents who will join SL if no adult activity). 

I've seen companies decide to alienate their userbase to cater to an unseen larger group and fail. If the userbase is stable then lowering it for a hypothetical reason is risky. I would say that removing the adult part of SL is dangerous enough to tank the whole company. 

I agree that SL would be better if it had more general content. LL should try to cater to creativity more as Arielle suggests so we could have more things to do besides adult things. Better tools to make "games" in world like a built-in combat system or racing system. LL might also want to do a better job hiding adult things on the SLMarketplace unless explicitly searched for.